From the Wikipedia article on the NYC:
The story of their (the only two modern NYC steam locomotives nto be be scrapped) survival is a fascinating one: L-2d #2933 (4-8-2 Mohawk) was somehow overlooked during the 1956-57 scrapping process, and was literally hidden for years after this by sympathetic NYC employees at the NYC's Selkirk Yard, New York roundhouse, behind large boxes. In January 1962, when scrapping her would have been a public-relations disaster, she was donated to the St. Louis museum. Since the last NYC steam locomotive operated in New York State on August 7, 1953, her survival defies credibility.
Gene
Gene,
Great story!
The bigger the company (or government), the bigger the cracks that things can "fall" into. There is a B&O story of six box cars lost on a siding in western Maryland for 35 years! Then one day, someone asked "what are they doing here?".
While a steam locomotive is a more expensive asset than six box cars, the fact remains, how does someone (or even a corporation) own something that big and not know where it is? Amazing stuff.
Sheldon
Quote from: Atlantic Central on February 27, 2008, 06:23:16 PM
While a steam locomotive is a more expensive asset than six box cars, the fact remains, how does someone (or even a corporation) own something that big and not know where it is? Amazing stuff.
Well, the Penn Central had a reputation for it. In the early days of the merger, they lost an entire coal train, locos and all, for over a week (it was finally located outside Syracuse). Then, of course, there was the incident where an Indiana shortline stole more than 200 PC boxcars, then fed them right back into the PC system, charging PC all the while. But on a happier note, PC also "lost track of" (another employee conspiracy) E7 #4201, which is now the last remaining E7 in the world.
Timothy
Too bad the NH couldn't have done that with some EP-3's eh tTimmy.
That kind of stuff was very common on the Santa Fe in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The cars on any line were controlled very tightly by the Conductors on the runs and they hid and buried cars for late "SALE" to the higest bidder, usualy a fifth of whiskey or along those line maby money in some cases. T^o combat that the Santa Fe and others put in CAR DEPARTMENTS centraly controlled at the Division Headquarters.
I was personally involved in findin I believe it was fifty cars hidden and lost for years on the "OLD TIMPSON MAINLINE" in East Texas we had a Special Train Order issued by the Superintendent in Temple to get these cars without fail and return then to Silsbee ASAP. We spent two days oiling all the journals and then used a four unit consist of GP 7s to knock down small pine trees in the tracks and went through briar patches 100 yards thivk to get all thes cars together an bring them out.
We once recieved instructions to enter the old World War Two Air Force Bse at HITE, Louisiana an gather all freight cars and return them to Silsbee. We gathered up about 35 cars mostly pulpwood and log cars that had been hidden on yhese tracks over the years by the Conductors that were assigned the what was known as the JU&E Locals. That being Jasper and Eastern Railroad that was taken over by the GC&SF Gulf Colorado and Santa Fe a subsidary of ATSF who later absorbed it.
I heard stories from men on Cotton Bels SP MP and KCS in Texas and Louisiana that had similar experiences.
It was the computerization and formation of Car Departments that stopped all that bull.
Redtail67
This brings back the memory of a story from the early days of World War II, after Germany had overrun France and England braced for the on-coming invasion. The High Command sent out teams to find good defensive positions along the southwest coast. Two officers walked along a railroad line and discovered an uncharted siding, overrun with underbrush and angled towards the coast. They followed the track and after a bit it became less overrun. Finally, close to the coast there was another turnout and the track and ballast was in good condition. Then they found two railroad guns, in excellent condition, side by side and a small cottage. The cottage housed a Royal Garrison Artillery pensioneer (sp) whose job was to maintain the two guns - which had been totally forgotten by the army.
For you younger guys, these would be something like 12 - 16 inch naval guns, firing 1 ton projectille to ranges of 20 miles or so. Very hard to misplace.
Gene
Gene, One thing I don't understand. You said "(The only two modern NYC steam locomotives not be be scrapped) survival is a fascinating one: L-2d #2933 (4-8-2 Mohawk) was somehow overlooked during the 1956-57. What was the other one?
The other was another Mohawk of a different class that was sent (sold) to a town in Texas to replace a stuffed and mounted 2-10-X that had been heavily vandalized. Why the NYC would send a Mohawk to Texas is beyond me. Go to the New York Central page in Wikipedia for the whole story.
Speaking of that - instead of using Google, use Good Search and designate a favorite charity, school, or church that is a member. If you just search a couple of times a day, you will help out.
Gene
In the NYC transit system, a train of low voltage IRT cars was saved for posterity when the TA chaplain, interested in saving the cars , got the employees to hide it. They moved it around the various underground storage tracks and management was non the wiser.
The train now is operated for fan trips thanks to the machinations of the chaplain.
Ok I remember now. It was dress up to look like a T&P locomotive. Then it was traded and replaced by a GG1. A GG1 in Texas!
Strange this subject should come up, have for years thought wouldn't it be fantastic to find one of the Great Northerns big articulateds tucked away somewhere, some zealous employees having stashed it away....
Such is a modelers dream!!... ;D
A few- several years ago, I told a New Haven historical society memeber at a table at a trainshow about a New Haven stainless steel diner surrounded by trees in the West Springfield yard, actually on a beer distributor's spur. He said nothing, just 'thanks'. A little while later, the company cleared the siding to start recieving by rail again, the car was gone. A few months later I saw it in a dead line of passenger stock the Central Mass was going to restore for excursions, I'd like to think I dropped a dime for a good cause. I told every one I could about a friction bearing flat- 1920's NYC I think, in the same yard, on a main road! It is now gone, but I don't know where....I just hope not into a dumptser....a maint. employee said it was going to be free to any orgainization that wanted it.... I doubt it....
Tony;
I noticed that same flat's absence as I drove past the yard on my way to the show this winter. it had always intrigued me as having those friction bearings and still in service, albiet MOW. About 1920 vintage, I believe.
While stationed at Bunker HIll AFB in Indiana (67) I happened at the town of West Hartford (IN) just outside of Peru, and lo and behold, sat an old New Haven boxcar, resplendant in fading pre-mcguinnes script. I was elated! here in the backwaters of the Hoosier state was something I could call family...Well, almost!! I don't know if it is still there-I would assume they hauled it out long ago, or it desolved...
Rich
Quote from: RAM on February 28, 2008, 01:24:40 PM
Ok I remember now. It was dress up to look like a T&P locomotive. Then it was traded and replaced by a GG1. A GG1 in Texas!
Interesting....
Gene, do you have a link to the story?
Just search for New York Central and then go to the Wikipedia article. You will help out your favorite charity, school, or church if you do it through Good Search.
Gene
Quote from: RAM on February 28, 2008, 01:24:40 PM
Ok I remember now. It was dress up to look like a T&P locomotive. Then it was traded and replaced by a GG1. A GG1 in Texas!
There is a GG1 at the Age of Steam Museum at Fair Park in Dallas. That puppy looks pretty large in pictures, but in person, its HUGE!
Age of Steam:http://www.dallasrailwaymuseum.com/ (http://www.dallasrailwaymuseum.com/)
Mike
A neighbor started a museum. So far he has an old caboose and a couple box cars, is looking for an old locomotive. He also has a couple of Army helicopters, I expect to see a B-29 show up someday.
Be kinda hard to hide a loco in sagebrush. I bet somewhere in an old barn is a nice Connie, not as strange as it sounds.
Bob
I recall several times that the BN had "LOST" some locomtives for over 2 months. They were interchanged to a foreign line in dedicated intermodal service and had not been seen since. Bullietins were issued to train and engine crews to be on the lookout for these units and if seen contact the dispatching office in Ft. Worth.
Believe it or not it was not an uncomman occurrence as the other roads would steal this units to provide power for trains when the were short on servicable units. The the railroads started a means to payback the home roads by horspower hours they held the units captive.
Heres a tidbit for you, in the mid 1960s I was a railfan as well as a Railroad Engineer and as such read a lot of railroad history. I had come across a story on the Red River and Gulf Railroad out of Long Leaf, Louisiana and decided to take a trip over there and see if I could find any of its remains.
I drove over to a siding off the MP where this road linked up to them. I stated walking through the woods and came up on their old Main Line I believe it was 65 lb rail. Trees were growing between the ties two feet thick.
I walked for I think about a mile an out of those pines shines a roundhouse abvouy 6 stalls if I remember correctly. I could not believe my eyes there were two beautiful steam engines one with wooden cab and diamond stack and a dinky deisel maybe 20 tons. The Steam Engines were painted and all brass was polished brite.
When I got up on the wooden cab Steamer and old Negro man with a shotgun in hand stopped me. He asked just "What the H#$$" did I think I was doing. I got down as instructed and we started talking. He told me that his daddy and now him were paid by the owners of the old railroad to guard the railroad property.
I begged him for a bell or whistle like the idiot I was and of course he refused but he did give me the monthly inspection form off the "Dinky" which I gladly accepted as well as one other item that I can not recall.
I believe the monthly inspection was dated in 1956 that would have been her last as the Road went into banckruptcy about that time.
I went backh several times and visited with that guy and as far as I know those Engines track and all are still there just out in woods.
On one of my last visits I came out of the woods and there were two Louisiana Midland Saddle Tank Steam Engines loaded on flats that had been set out at that siding account problems with the flat cars. I learned later that they were on there way to a Museum or Steam Tourist Road in Arkansas.
I used to go all over East Texas and louisiana looking fore that kind of stuff as there were many logging roads that been in the area. I found quite a few old shays some in pretty good shape a few 2-6-0 most have gone to scrap now and some were taken by Museums.
Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth.
Redtail67
Heres another!
I had an old railroad history book that made reference to an logging engine that fell down the mountain in 1907 and no attempt was made at recovery because it was totaly destroyed. The mountain was two miles out of Clatskannie, Orgeon. (mispelled I am sure) My brother just happened to live there.
In 1968 I went out on vacation got in his truck found the mountain and went looking for the engine. I found what remained right where the book said it was. This book was written about 1930 and the wreck happened in 1907.Took two hours to get to bottom of a very rugged incline and there were the remains with the number plate still attached to shattered and rusted out remains.
I went back to my brothers house and got some tools and went back and removed the brass plate as I started up the mountain some 16 hours had elaped and it was way after dark. My brother had called out the search and rescue thinking I was lost.
The weather turned cold and rainy and I was miserable and exhausted I had to abandon the plate about halfway up. I could not get it loose from some of the boiler skin and just broke it off and it was heavy.
So to this day the remains of the wreck are probably still there everything rotten and decayed excepte the big steel such as wheels rods etc. The brass plate unless some hunter has found it I bet is laying where I dropped it.
redtail67
Quote from: Redtail67 on March 02, 2008, 05:10:30 PM
I walked for I think about a mile an out of those pines shines a roundhouse abvouy 6 stalls if I remember correctly. I could not believe my eyes there were two beautiful steam engines one with wooden cab and diamond stack and a dinky deisel maybe 20 tons. The Steam Engines were painted and all brass was polished brite.
Wow! Do you remember what her wheel arrangement was?
Goggle 'Red River & Gulf Railroad" currently being
restored as a forestery museum.
Ken
GWN
Another story involving a logging loco. Deep in West Virginia, just off the B&O main from Cumberland to Grafton, was a short line that hauled coal from a tipple down in the holler up to the B&O. They used an old Shay that had bounced around WVA for quite a while. The mine shut down, and the Shay was parked in the enginehouse and sat there for like 10 years. Finally, some fans managed to contact the then-owner of the property and purchased the loco. It took them a while, but they finally got the loco pulled out of the house and up to the B&O R-O-W. They were intending to bring in a truck along the tracks and haul the loco away. Before they could do that, though, the B&O derailed a train on the curve there and piled it up on top of the Shay, totally destroying it. This happened maybe 20 years ago, now.
The engine that fell from the mountain was a shay and that is all i remember. It belonged to one of the many logging companies that were clear cutting the mountains of Oregon.
The Red River and Gulf as a Forestry Museum Great hope they still haver those Engines they were real beauties in what looked to be excellent shape.
That railroad like most was started with grand plans to go to New Orleans but they did not make it. The did have quite an operation at one time operating several passenger trains and local freights.
I will google it up and the next time I go home I might just go to that museum.
Thanks for the info Ken
Redtail67
Did my google and low and behold found one of the sream engines at Stone Mountain Park the Red River and Gulf No. 104 a Baldwin 4-4-0 built 1919 with 60 inch drivers weighs 89,000 lbs.
She was minus the Brass Number Plate that was on it the last time I saw it and weathered badly.
She was bright colored and all brass was polished by that watchman. It says it is "stored" at the Stone Mountain Park.
I wonder what happened to the others.
redtail67
Back in the early 20th century, there was a large logging operation in northern Maine. The railroad owned 2 steam locomotives, one from the Rutland, and one from the New York Central. In 1930 the railroad quit, it was deemed too expensive to remove everything. In 1969 a park ranger "accidentally" burned the remains of the engine house and water tower. To this day the 2 steamers are still up in the woods, having not moved since 1930.
There are also remains of the tramway which transported the logs a distance of 5 miles, between 2 lakes, before the railroad was built.
(http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Trainscans/train1.jpg)
(http://mainegov-images.informe.org/doc/parks/programs/history/allagash/elwbrr.jpg)
(http://maine.gov/doc/parks/programs/history/allagash/a-el&wb1-w.jpg)
http://mainegov-images.informe.org/doc/parks/programs/history/allagash/tramremains.jpg
http://mainegov-images.informe.org/doc/parks/programs/history/allagash/tramnow.jpg
GG you did it again! those should be trump cards in the guessing game.... I'm gonna start calling you "Pam Am surface tranportation" And I forgot, who owned them before the logger? ...!!! never mind! put that in the guessing game!
Quote from: TonyD on March 03, 2008, 07:32:26 PM
GG you did it again! those should be trump cards in the guessing game.... I'm gonna start calling you "Pam Am surface tranportation" And I forgot, who owned them before the logger? ...!!! never mind! put that in the guessing game!
Um, riiiiiiiiiight...