Does anybody know when they started putting brake levers in passenger cars for passengers to pull if they want to stop and so forth. Once Lucy and ricky ricardo and the mertzs were coming back from california on the train and lucy pulled the lever to stop it to get ricky. Is there still one on amtrak and can anybody use it. Thanks.
I know they had them as far back as 1900 and I also know it was mandated by Law and still is. I do not know excactly when it was mandated by Law but along time ago.
It's not a lever; it's a cord. I'm not sure if it actually activates the brakes or signals the engineer or conductor to actually do that.
The last time I was in a train, the brake cord still existed and anybody can pull it. But they have to accept the consequences of so doing, as it puts the train in emergency brake, IIRC.
My. Three periods and two capital letters. Getting better.
Gene
The emergency brake is often a red handle attached to a cord. Usually conductors are the one who pull them, since they are for emergencies only. Passenger cars also have handbrakes. Pre- 1950's they were brake wheels on the outside. In the modern era they are cranks, in the vestibules.
Gene,
I counted 4 periods. I would think the cord merely signaled the conductor. Of course Lucy was a klutz and it made people laugh to see people flying around the car. Do they require seat belts on trains? Or are the only belts the little 1/2 ounce bottles of booze?
Bob
Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 01, 2008, 11:16:22 PM
Gene,
I counted 4 periods. I would think the cord merely signaled the conductor. Of course Lucy was a klutz and it made people laugh to see people flying around the car. Do they require seat belts on trains? Or are the only belts the little 1/2 ounce bottles of booze?
Bob
Modern Amtrak trains don't even have seatbelts. Of course, neither do schoolbuses, but that's another matter entirely...
I don't know about "modern" Amtrak cars (Superliners, Horizon, etc), but the emergency brake cord/handle (I don't remember which) on the streamline-era cars on the Ski Train dumps the air on the train. Coming back from Winter Park a few years ago, one passenger had a few-too-many of those 1/2oz. belts, and decided to grab on to the emergency brake for balance. We came to quite an abrupt stop, managing to put a flat spot on the wheel of our car (naturally the one over which I was sitting). The conductor was none-too-pleased. I don't remember what happened to the offender, but our car attendant indicated that it happened more often than he'd like.
Later,
K
Lucy was not a klutz you see. Its not like she fell on the brake lever she meant to use it to stop the train to get ricky and so forth. She also dressed like a man to get in rickys show and meet charles boyea not because she was a transvastite or put the wrong drawers on by accident. If your going from viginia to somewheres in new jersey that amtark dont stop at and you just jerk the lever when the train got there then ran off to where you want to go it sounds like its possible as long as you dont care about the ticket price being more then where your going and so forth. If the fuzz get called you can call it accident or misunderstanding if they catch you. Thanks.
I have also thought that the cord was just a signal system so the conductor could signal the engineer. The conductor could activates the brakes.
I'm am 99% positive pulling the cord, directly dumps the air in the train brakes.
Quote from: Guilford Guy on March 01, 2008, 10:40:29 PM
The emergency brake is often a red handle attached to a cord. Usually conductors are the one who pull them, since they are for emergencies only. Passenger cars also have handbrakes. Pre- 1950's they were brake wheels on the outside. In the modern era they are cranks, in the vestibules.
Once, coming back from Boston, I had one of those sitting right next to me. Too bad the conductor didn't put her in the vestibule. ;)
LOL, what train # did you come in on? Boston can be fun, in the vestibule you can see the crank, with a chain extending down of it, in each vestibule.
Quote from: Guilford Guy on March 02, 2008, 09:49:32 PM
LOL, what train # did you come in on? Boston can be fun, in the vestibule you can see the crank, with a chain extending down of it, in each vestibule.
I don't remember which number it was. It was about a year and a half ago. It was a midafternoon train, and not an Acela.
The woman got on at Back Bay with her granddaughter. I had boarded at South Station. All she did was bitch, bitch, bitch--to no one in particular--about how she and her granddaughter, who was one row behind us, couldn't get a pair of seats together. I SO wanted to say, "Lady, if you'd got on a South Station where the train was empty, ..." but I kept my mouth shut and said nothing. Fortunately, she got off the train at New Haven.
Hey Gene;
Where did Chug get his education...the Army? (ha ha)
Rich
And you guys don't correct 'crank' into the proper term 'ratcheting brake lever'? The pull string came out in the 1840's, went to a small bell in the cab, a sharp old photo can sometimes focus in on the cord strung thru all sorts of hangers. My local bus has that system to remind the driver. I really don't think modern -or rebuilt cars- have public access to the 'brake signal' anymore, just a few half hidden places the 'car attendent or client services representative' can get to in a hurry, yes I believe it dumps the air and signals the whole crew.
On MBTA's Pullman, Bombardier, MBB, and Kawasaki commuter cars, there is a handle at each end of the car. According to one of the conductors I know, they've only had to use them in a few instances, for example when a guy jumped off the train after it left the station, etc. I agree, passengers rarely have a good reason to pull it, thus it is rarely used. I've heard cases on MBTA, where once it is pulled it doesn't want to reset, leaving a train dead on the system... Of course, our locomotives are haunted, thus on a cab ride one time, 1131 dumped the air on its own when leaving hastings...
Tony;
Why would you want to dump air in only one car? I would think that a signal to the engineer would be much better, as the whole train system could be dumped/controlled by him, preventing things like flattening wheels, etc.
RIch
PS: Lucy's and Ricky's stunts were just that: Stunts. They are staged for effect. Not neccessarily prototypically correct in any setting! Ever watch a cartoon where the engine has a flat tire?...
RIch
Rich,
I'm not sure Chug is old enough to join the Boy Scouts. I'm not sure the Army could use him in anything other than a 36K.
Gene
For what it is worth, you couldn't "dump the air in just one car" unless you first blanked the angle cocks on both ends of the car. As soon as the air is dropped on any car (or engine, for that matter) all brakes apply ...that is, all brakes that are part of the continuously supplied system (ending ,of course, at the first blanked angle cock). And you can't get the air to come back up and the brakes to release until it's reset at the control stand of the controlling locomotive and enough air has been pumped back to release the affected brakes.- Mike
Quote from: r.cprmier on March 04, 2008, 07:10:06 AM
Ever watch a cartoon where the engine has a flat tire?...
Reminds me of a listing I recently saw on eBay that referred to the brake wheel on a flat car as "the steering wheel."
I always wondered how they kept those things on the tracks. ... ;D ;)
I want to try to correct a misunderstanding about the "CORD" in passenger equipment and the "EMERGENCY BRAKE VALVE" in the same cars.
1. The over head cord is a communication whistle ussed to send wiste signals directy to the cab of the controlling locomotive in passenger service.
is was to provide a means for the Conductor to tll the Engineer to "STOP" "PROCEEED" "STOP AT NEXT STATION" bring attention to upcoming "MEET AT NEXT STATION" and so on. Remember this device was implemented long before "RADIO" and is still in use today. However, the current Operating rules permit the use of RADIO in place of the communicating whistle.
This whistle is located on the floor along in front of the engineer with the ATS and ATC whistles.
2. The "EMERGENCY BRAKE VALVE" is FRA Requirement on all Locomotives Passenger Cars and Cabooses. It provides all crew members as well as the general public on passenger trains a direct means of stopping the train. If that valve is used all cars and locomotives will apply their air brakes into emegerncy postion and stiop the train.
I feel there was confusion about what each one was and what they did.
Redtail67
Today along with the cord, conductors use a button system. Next to the traps on most modern pullman/bombardier commuter cars, there is a little notch with a button. This sends a signal to a buzzer/bell like object in the cab. Pressing twice is the signal for "Okay to go" although most prefer to use the radio.
Our MARC (MAryalnd Rail Commuter) cars I ride to work all the time all have cranks in the vestibule, and a little red handle hanging from a little cord at the ends of the cars. I have often thought of mentioning something to the conductor applying the brake at the end of the trip that I was wondering what someone meant about the old crank at the end of the car....
I am happy to say I have not been on a train when the brakes have been put on full.
Charles
I've been on a cab ride (well cab car) when the train went into emergency. Some kids had put an old x-mas tree across the tracks. Its often better to be safe rather than sorry, when some large brown object is stretched across the track. (kinda looked like a deer until we got closer) The train stopped surprisingly quickly(4 or 5 commuter car lengths from 60mph), then came the arduous task of assisting the conductor in wrenching the remains of the tree from beneath the MU cables where it had caught.
The "CRANKS" you refer to or hand brakes all cars freight and passenger as well as locomotives are required to be equipped with them. In some cases it may be a wheel, they come in many shapes and sizes.
They are designed to be used mainly to hold cars or units stationary after being left on a track. Units were never supposed to be "kicked" anywhere and stopped by the use of the hand brake, many have been.
Freight cars being switched and moving on their own momentum are stopped by the use of hand brakes every day of the year.
However, under emergency conditions they could be used to stop a rolling car or unit. that has started rolling on its own. They have been used just for that purpose many thousands of times.
The hand brake or brakes may not stop something real heavy that is moving if on a real steep grade. In other words the tonnage might have overpowered the available braking power of the cars or equipment, whether it is the air brakes or the mechanical brakes, on the grade.
That is often referred to as a runaway.
So now there are three distinctly different things that have refferred to in this thread.
1. The Communication Whistle.
2. The Emergency Brake Valve.
3. The Hand Operated Brake.
Redtail67
Kadee has what they call delayed action decoupling, so you can "kick" cars into a siding. That didn't seem prototypical to me. Looks good for the movies I guess.
I always wondered what happens if the train breaks in the middle and there is no locomotive at the rear, especially pulling a grade. I imagine the breaking away of the mu hoses apply the brakes, but what about the old days of steam?
Just hope the brakeman in the caboose isn't taking a nap?
Bob
Bob.
Airbrakes, for the purposes of this discussion and without getting too technical, are fully automatic. If a train brakes in two, even in steam days, both halves of the train go into "emergency" and come to a stop.
Trains, for the purposes of this discussion and without getting too technical, do not run away down hill in a break in two.
It is getting old fashion now Yamba Bob, but around here the kadee style pushing while uncoupled was common, and really cool when the ALCO switchers were still around, a ton of black smoke every few minutes...could be still done (legally?) atleast with some loads that aren't easily damaged or dislodged, and it gets dangerous for the brakeman to have to trot along side to lift the pin, the old timers alway said to keep several car lengths away when crossing the tracks, because a switcher could be doing a 'flying shove' of a couple cars into the string you are at the other end of, and like the little desk art thing with the swinging silver balls, the string of cars could roll back the same distance... something about this old guy with an apple and fig cookies, I forgot, but 'is/can be handy for layouts when you have one magnetic uncoupler, but a choice of spurs to spot a car on, you switcher can place it there, or couple onto other cars, yet back away alone...but as models shoving a couple cars onto a sting in a yard...rarely comes off looking realistic. Maybe some dcc geek can come up with a rummbling thump sound..... yes as any airline, or vaccuum line abroad, part company- boths ends of the train stop, all cars with equal pressure....before that( 1885-1900), there was a brakeman every passenger car, or 'walking around up there, jumping between cartops! every few freight cars, and the caboose, or 'brake van' in some places, was full of scrap iron, lead waste, concrete, rocks, as dead weight when the wheels were locked. Llike you guys with the HO flats, out of the way, out of sight. Engineers had whistle signals for just having these guys apply 'some' braking... or like in the old war movies, European 4wheel freights had a brakeman in a cabin every few cars till payscales went up after the war.... i'm sure those guys bid on better jobs anyway....one of the original ideas of having a caboose/brakevan was just the idea of having a human being at the far end of something gone very wrong...sounds like a good idea to me... is this now all 'history? am I THAT old already????'
Kicking of cars in switching operations is as common as dirt. Happens everyday in every yard in America. However, with the new found religion of the rail industry shoving everything to and from a "joint" or coupling is becoming more the norm.
The brakeman up on top was the order of the day as late as 1966-1967. Shortly after I hired out the Railroads starterd removing the running boards on top of all cars and outlawed the use of brake clubs. Many, very many, trainmen lost their lives walking the tops of cars on moving trains.
The trainmen would by whistle signals from the engineer apply or release hand brakes on both freight and passenger trains. This was more common before the wide spread application of dynamic brakes on locomotives and well as vast improvements in the air brake systems in use on trains.
Before the dynamic brake, ie STEAM, it really took a very skilled engineer to bring any train down the mountains or any extended grade. Skill as well as guts.
They had no dynamic brake and only one air compressor, it can not be overstated just how good an Engineer had to be to run under those conditions. There was absolutely no room for error on his part.
Deisels brought dynamic brakes and multiple units with an air compressor on each, they even had air brake repeater cars, what a godsend. The design improvements in air brake equipment on cars and locomotives greatly improved overall train operational safety.
Just in case you do not know trains in the early days had no air brakes on the cars and the very first designs were of a so called straight air system witch was very unsafe and provided mediocre brakeing at best. I ran a alco RS1 equipped with the 14el brake valve. The independent brake was a straight air type and operated in the same fashion as the automatic brake for the train. That valve was a SREAM Era hold over modified to operate with the more advanced AB freight car valves. The railroads modernized most deisels in the 1950 1960 to 24 rl and the the 26 which were both very good brake valves and much more safe that anything built before.
I just read an ad for ATSF in an old newspaper that was bragging wanting passengers to take the ATSF "..our trains have "AIR BRAKES" was their cry to appeal to the traveling public.
Deaths from train wrecks were numerous and very common place in the early 1900's which prompted Congress to take action requireing Air Brakes hand brakes and a whole basket full of laws and regulations to bring about better safety standards.
DMIR uses straight air on their ore trains. The way I understand it, after the brakes are applied, with straight air you can bleed off the brakes somewhat? Is there any advantage to using straight air on these heavy pellet trains?
As afar as interest to models here, which I think is one of the most intellegent threads going this week....OK thee best thread, Redtail mentioned the differences in the braking systems in the 1st gen. diesels, which is why some models and brands couldn't be MU'ed with some others- RS1's could mu with some early Alco switchers, but not with RS-3's or later anythings, btw, as in another thread, it was a few differences in equipment that kept the Baldwin Sharks on the D&H from mu'ing with anything else, which was a real sore point, just something for modelers to keep in mind. As for GG's question, I would think since the Iron range really doesn't interchange the ore cars, and they stay in a unit train until one has to go on a bad track, I guess any system the fed's OK that they think works best is just fine. Speaking of guilf--- A few years ago an old B&M veteran died from a car getting away on the Hoosic tunnel line around Orange or Athol, a money saving two man crew switching on the mainline, and a handbrake on a box just didn't hold, must have looked like a scene from and old movie, the engine trying to catch up with a runaway, I guess when the couplers did hit, at speed, the oldtimer fell of the porch, I wonder if keeping footboards wouldn't have saved the day..who knows...seems he was scared about grade crossings further down hill, a Casey Jones kinda hero, no one ever hears about...on the same line in the strike years, a crew of 'imported professionals' all got out of the cab to buy a nice lunch....when they got back, the train was gone, of course first thought was the strikers, but, apparently it just decided to go down hill without them...to help save Guilford some money, such nice engines! Reminds one of Thomas and freinds :)
Guilford Guy:
I am not familier withe operation of the DMIR. They may have in use a straight air brake system if they are a captive Rail operation. That is one that does not interchange their equipment with other lines.
I simply know of no advantage to a straight air system over the modern day brakes. One for the reason you mentioned, the bleeding down of the brakes to lessen the amount of brake force against the wheels.
It was for that very reason the straight air systems in main line operations were replaced, they were unsafe and unreliable.
Redtail67
TonyD:
This failure of locomtives to MU was very common with interchanged units or where we would pick up an old switcher to send off somewhere. It was nothing but a nightmare for operating crews. You would end up setting the unit up Dead In Train to be able to haul it.
Further, among our own roads power, this inability to MU the Units led to a "loss of available horspower for the train". If the units were not setup properly it would result in sliding wheels and sometimes derailment.
When we started interchanging entire trains with units included it really showed up when we added ATSF Units to a forein line consist that had opposite arrangment of the air hoses. This would result in the trainmen or engine crews lining up the hoses straight across as they had been taught and this would sometimes in having the independent application and release hose crossed with the sanders, or actuation lines.
This would flatten the wheels causing you to have to set the units out or sometimes derailment.
The railroads addressed this and started making all new units built have the same pipe arrangement and they converted all that were feasible of the older units.
Frankly, because this is a modelers forum, I am surprised at your knowledge of the air brake system.
Of course if you are making a model of one of these Steam Air Brake Equipped Locomotives and you want detail that would have to be taken into account. I ran many Alco RS-1and RS-2 units and they all had this early brake on them and were not equipped with an actuating pipe. They would only MU with units of the same type.
Redtail67