Bachmann Online Forum

Since this topic appears often, I thought a pictorial might help. Some easy steps but rather long.  If you already know all this, that's great. Title is brief for later search.

For an example, we will do minor surgery on a Mantua Combine. The car has knuckle couplers, but is prone to derail when backing up.

Turn trucks sideways for access to body mount tabs. Using fingernail pull one tab toward center of car until body lifts from floor.  Pivot body upward to release other end.  If you break off tabs, you will have to glue styrene blocks in body and fasten floor with screws.


THE SURGICAL INSTRUMENTS.

When I have a bunch of cars to rebuild I don't have time or patience to improvise. Use what you have, but an essential tool is a pair of precision flush cutting end nippers. 

Remove truss wires and weight clip from chassis.  With a thin flat screwdriver pry weight from floor.  It is glued with rubber cement, but will come loose with some gentle persuasion on both sides and ends.

From the top, insert screwdriver into recessed bolster hole, pry one tab toward center of hole while pulling firmly on truck until it snaps out of hole. 

Temporarily replace weight, mark through bolster holes from bottom and drill two 1/4" holes in the weight.

From the top, drill out bolster holes  with 3/16" bit.    Time to cut some pieces of styrene. You can use leftover sprue, but the following assures a straight and centered bolt hole.

Cut 2 pieces each of 3/16"  and 1/8" styrene tubes, about 3/4" long.  Styrene is cheap, leave  extra for handles while gluing.   Smooth and round cut off edges with sanding board.

Ream  bolster holes slightly, alternating from top and bottom, with a 1/4" coarse tapered round file.  Check fit of 3/16" tube often,  needs to be a smooth fit without being sloppy or binding.  Better to be a bit snug than too loose, but there must be space for cement. 

My choice of cement is Testors #8872, a medium viscosity liquid with needle applicator.  Keep tissue handy to  remove excess cement immediately after gluing each piece. 

BODY BOLSTERS. Refer to this picture while proceeding


Apply a bit of cement inside bolster hole, and a generous spread  around outside of 3/16" tube.  Insert tube with a rotating motion until tube is protruding about 1/4" above and below floor.  On the top, run a bead of cement in the cavity between the tube and floor.

Apply cement inside 3/16" tube, and a spread around outside of 1/8" tube.  Insert inside 3/16" with a rotating motion until fairly flush at each end.  Let dry for at least an hour.

TRUCKS
Cut mounting posts and coupler plates off trucks with end nippers, close to center plate.

Cut about a 5 inch piece of 1/8" solid styrene rod.  Sand/taper one end until it fits into one of the truck plate holes and protrudes about 1/8" on the other side.  Cut off leaving 1/2" or so for a handle.  Continue tapering the rod and inserting in holes.  Then remove the plugs, apply generous  beads of cement, and insert into holes with a twisting motion until tight.  Let dry for an hour.  (Don't forget to keep wiping off excess cement that oozes out.)

Back to the bolsters.  With a fine razor saw, cut bottom tubes flush with the stock bolster tube.   Using a 3/4" wide sanding board, laid lengthwise across both bolsters, lightly sand tubes/bolster  smooth. This assures bolsters will be flat and even.

Don't pre-tap bolster tubes, let a 2-56 bolt do the tapping.  The bolt needs to turn fairly hard for precise adjustment of truck swivel and sway.

Trucks:  Snip off excess rods with end cut nippers.  Using a 1/2" wide sanding board, sand top of truck plate smooth.  Turn truck over, sand bottom of plate, support on narrow board,  make a heavy mark with fine point scribe at exact center of truck plate. between the two plugs.  Drill 1/16", then enlarge to 3/32".  Ream the journals with "The Tool" and install metal wheels if you like.  You might have to spread the frames to allow wheels to free spin,  be careful as plastic trucks grow brittle with age.

To make the coupler heights close to correct,  the truck mounting tube should extend below the bottom of floor about 3/16"  A digital depth gauge determined the measurement to be .2350, minus .1875 equals .0475.   So it will require 2 pieces of styrene shim under the draft box,  .040 and .010.  Glue the shims beween steps, even with end of floor, but do not cover square holes for body clips.  You can alternately sand off the bolster .030 and use thinner shims, though typically these vintage cars were never "low riders".  It's your option.

Assemble a  Kadee #148 coupler and box, center box between steps with lip against body.  Drill 1/16" hole through shims and floor, tap with 2-56 and attach box with a 1/4" phillips head machine screw.  Bend up trip pins a little with your tool of choice.  I use Kadee pliers, some have success with needle nose pliers. 

Install trucks with 2-56 X 3/8" or 1/2"  phillips head machine screws, check coupler heights with Kadee gauge. "Coupler too high, shim box down or sand off bolster, Coupler low shim between bolster and truck or file down floor." I prefer the machine screws for more precise adjustment, and you can buy them for as little as 57 cents per 100 depending on length.  In case you missed it before,  go to Fastenal.com.   I leave the bolster tube stick up above floor for more thread length.

Replace the weight and holding clip, add 1/2 ounce to bring weight up to standards.  Since my vintage cars are run as present day excursions, I typically replace trucks with Model Power # 9400 trucks with metal wheels, and save the old trucks for use on my give-a-ways.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWN06&P=SM


Have fun.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you

Bob - you have done a great favor allowing us into your information source.

HGC

Yampa Bob wrote: -

"They say a clean work bench is a sign of a sick mind, so be it."


And a messy workbench is a sign of active modelling?  :)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/Workbench.jpg)

I agree Roger... I have like 7 different project on the bench right now... (Conway Scenic 44 tonner, Conway Scenic S4, MBTA GP40MC, Working on a doodlebug, painting Several Cranes and Crane Tenders for Steve Warrington's family, Detailing an MBTA cabcar, G scale 4-8-2 project, Painting and detailing a GP9, painting and detailing a GP38-2...) okay, more than 7, but everythings all cluttered....

You started another one Bob
A clean desk means a cluttered mind. A cluttered desk means you have lost it somewhere in that pile.
Don ;)

Bob, an excellent description and great photos.  Truly a service to other modelers.

Very neat work bench too.  Sorry to say, I haven't seen the top of mine for years.  Thanks to Don, I now know where I lost my mind.

Thanks Jim
In life I have learned the art of "focusing".  But you have to be aware of other priorities that may suddenly become more pressing. At least that's what my wife keeps telling me.  :D

Roger
Actually, I think your workbench is pretty well organized. 

With my really lousy eyesight, every tool must be exactly in it's place so I can grab it without looking.  If a tool gets misplaced, I have to call my wife out to find it.  I have about 30 feet of workbench, the rest is test track and  equipment for solar power systems repair.

Say Don, how about solar power for your garden railway?  That would be cool.

Model Power actually had a 7% price reduction on their Mantua line.  I think the cars are very nice for the money, with wire details and glazed windows.  I have about 20 of the 1860 - 1890, and very pleased with the looks. With new trucks and couplers I figure they are worth the added $4 to upgrade.

Bob

Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 21, 2008, 01:14:50 AM
Roger
Actually, I think your workbench is pretty well organized.  But my goodness, THOSE CURTAINS.  OUCH!!!!   :D :D

They're in the basement but that's still not excuse.

FASHION POLICE, where are you?

Roger
I couldn't resist.  Reminds me of the time my son wanted his bedroom decorated with black wall paper and silver stripes.   I never did go into his room, guess that was his plan  LOL.
Bob

Great stuff, Bob, thank you very much.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any YouTube or similar videos that might be out there that have some instructional content regarding this or other modeling topics: proper soldering techniques, how to wire a reverse loop, good ways to clean loco wheels, and so on and so on.

I'm a 'learn by watching' guy, as many are.  As fantastic as Bob's instructions are, a video compliment would be incredible.  Just a thought.

Check out "How to Weather like Lee W" ;)
Actually, you don't want to see that...
Theres a good weathering clinic for CP grain hoppers on youtube... I'll dig up the link later... and try to find the couplers I need to send you...

9ers:
Glad you liked the article.  You actually provided the final inspiration, as I saw your questions in another thread.

While it is true that learning involves a lot of reading and some watching,  I have actually learned much more in life by "doing".   It's the hands on experience that counts.  My instructions are meaningless until you actually take the plunge and do it.

Incidentally, no one taught me how to upgrade Talgo.  I had some old cars, and just started experimenting with some methods.  Yeah, I made some mistakes.  Learning also means discovering what you should not do.  But it's only a plastic car, what's the worst that can happen? 

Bob

Bob
I would love to run my garden railroad on solar power but first I need sun.As I said in the past - If you never try anything you will never make a mistake . If you never make a mistake you will never learn anything.
Don ;)

Don
All I can add is  "AMEN" brother.

By the way, I also sell small wind generators.  Does the wind ever blow where you are at?  Come to think about it, where are you at?  North Pole? Naw, sun shines there for 6 months.   :D :D    Donde vive?
Bob

Bob,
   I had read somewhere that you worked on solar systems.  Keep me in mind here in the not to distant future.  I should be home again this Jun and I don't get the most sun around.  However, I do get a lot of wind and I own to the top of a mountain.  Translated, I have more than 100 feet of vertical drop.  My off thread email is richards@meer.net.  I would be interested in talking to you about that.  Also, I am interested in your "cutter".  Over here on Gov. computers I can not get most pictures or anything like You Tube.  I too lean the best by doing!   thanks,  Stephen

Stephen
Picture on the way. Take care
Bob

Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 20, 2008, 09:18:42 PM
I may edit this post later for brevity, clarity, or errors.

Have fun.

Yampa Bob

Thank you, Bob! Your posts are better than a clinic at a Greenberg's show!  :D

Jeff

Thanks Jeff
Since retirement writing is becoming a passion, but have lots to learn as English was not my favorite subject.  I probably overflow on details, but I try to paint a picture in the reader's mind. 

I also try to not give the impression that my way is the only way, but rather to stimulate some imagination and creativity in the reader.   

Bob

Quote from: Yampa Bob on March 25, 2008, 12:59:29 PM
Thanks Jeff
Since retirement writing is becoming a passion, but have lots to learn as English was not my favorite subject.  I probably overflow on details, but I try to paint a picture in the reader's mind. 

I also try to not give the impression that my way is the only way, but rather to stimulate some imagination and creativity in the reader.   

Bob

I don't think so. I think if you're trying to write a "how-to," more detail is better. Don't be like the folks in Tech Services who always seem to leave out one crucial point because they know it and they assume everyone else does, too.  :-\

I recently read an article in Railroad Model Craftsman about modifying bolsters on box cars.  The author also used 1/8" styrene tubing, but in a manner which provided a raised boss that the truck mount hole slipped over.  If anyone saw this article the described tapping of the tubing center all the way through may create some confusion.  It contrasts to my method, but it is a different application.  Here are the two common methods of attaching trucks to the bolster.

Some companies, notably Bachmann and Athearn, have a small tubular extension sticking up from the bolster.  It is more properly termed a "boss" or "stub".  In this application the thickness of the truck plate is slightly thinner than the height of the boss.  The truck plate hole fits OVER the boss, and a flat head bolt is screwed down tight against the boss.  The truck sway or tilt is a bit more than I prefer, but it does work well in that the bolt is always tight and won't fall out or change adjustment. Bachmann uses a very large boss, which is why it's tricky changing to other brands of trucks.  I'll cover that in a later post.  The Athearn boss is small, so any truck will fit, usually by filing the boss off down to the bolster flat as recommended by Kadee.

Other companies use a flat bolster, and the bolt is screwed down almost tight against the truck plate.  This requires that the bolt turns fairly hard to maintain adjustment. If the hole in the bolster does not grip the bolt tightly, the bolt will fall out somewhere around the track, I've had it happen.

I use the latter method, because I want adjustability of both swivel and sway, but I also want the bolt threads to grip the tube walls very tightly.  Here's the mechanics of tapping the hole.

The proper tap drill for 2-56 is #50 which is .0700 inch. That's fine for metal but a bit too large for soft styrene. If I use 3/16" solid rod for the bolster center, then I drill the hole with a 1/16" bit which is .0625.  I have to progressively run the tap in and out in short increments as it cuts a full 100% thread.  The bolt will also be a very tight fit.

The 1/8" tubing has an inside diameter of .076, larger than a #50 drill.  In order to keep the bolt reasonably tight, I only tap enough to let the bolt grab, and let the bolt do the tapping. If you can start the bolt straight it's best to not pre-tap at all. 

Technically, the 2-56 is not a bolt, it is a machine screw in the national coarse classification, but I use the terms interchangeably.  We screw bolts and screw screws but we don't bolt screws, we have a strange language.   :D

I'll explain later how to tighten up holes that get sloppy and won't maintain adjustment or the machine screws keep falling out.

Some companies use plastic friction pins, which will eventually fall out.  Throw them or stow them and replace with machine screws.

More later.  Questions always welcome.   

Bob

My method is generally the same but I don't tap the hole beforehand I use a sheet metal screw, The sheet metal screw provides a thicker land which is stronger and eliminates the step of having to tap the hole and possibly twice the opportunities to screw up.
Don :)

Bob
In about 10 days you will have something to practice on.
Don

Thanks Don, I got your letter.

I have an opinion about sheet metal screws but I better not go there. LOL  In fact I had a paragraph about it but deleted it as I try very hard to keep opinions out of my threads.  :D   

Bob

Bob                                                                                                                        I am open to your opinion. Don ???

Roger;
You are truely a man after my own heart!  I sent Bob some pics of my coaling tower presently under construction, so he knows about MY workbench...  If cleanliness is next to Godliness, I shall forever burn in the deepest hottest pit of hell...

Rich  (AKA Oscar Madison)

Well you can call me "Felix".  Naw, I'm not that fanatical, just can't stand clutter. 

My wife is the same way. We don't mind a little dust on things, that's expected living on a ranch.  We're not antiseptic freaks either, those people are weird.

Now tools are something else. She has her workshop, I have mine. That means two complete sets of tools.  When we built the layout table, I just cut the pieces, she put it all together.  I don't ever hear "honey fix this, or honey fix that".

Yup, I'm very lucky.

Bob

I usually associate wood screws with wood, and sheet metal screws to metal.  The self tappers are ok, I just like the more precise adjustment with the machine screws.

Also, the machine screws come in a broader range of lengths starting from 1/8", and are a lot cheaper, as low as  52 cents for 100. 

Bob

When I have a bunch of upgrades to do, I set up an "assembly line".  Take the trucks off all the cars, then work on all the bolsters and getting the 3/16" difference between the bolster flat and the body floor.  That's the most time consuming part, mounting all the trucks/wheels and couplers is then quick and easy.

If there are a bunch of weight plates to drill, mark and drill them all as one operation. My biggest "run" so far was 20 upgrades in 5 relaxed evenings.

I have a stack of plastic job trays so I can keep all the cars/parts separated.  If you look at the picture of my workbench, you can see 6 of the red trays being used for small tools.

I made a template from thin plywood, with a 3/16" wide notch cut on one side, makes a great gauge to check the bolster/floor difference. 

Bob

Quote from: rogertra on March 20, 2008, 11:15:17 PM

Yampa Bob wrote: -

"They say a clean work bench is a sign of a sick mind, so be it."


And a messy workbench is a sign of active modelling?  :)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/Workbench.jpg)

I have a box full of parts from broken engines and cars as my workbench

Uh, I think you posted the wrong picture. Obviously the modeler who originally posted that picture is of a sound and rational mind who has his priorities in order. The decor expresses a state of organization, order and tranquility. 

There is only one "Mad Scientist" on this board. That honor was bestowed on me by other members after seeing the weird creations that emerge from the "laboratory".

Now, as I was saying, note the 6 red job trays.  I acquired over 100 of these during an earlier professional period.

Ah, peaceful insanity. 


Note there are no labels on the organizer above the bench.  Why?  Glad you asked. By opening all 52 drawers looking for the part I need, I maintain a mental inventory of all the stuff I don't need. With this method, it only takes about 20 years to memorize where stuff is at. 

Bob

Way too organized.

how can you get anything done??

Tim Anders
Souderton,PA

Hi Tim
As you can see, I'm running behind in my documentation and posting.  I had to take a break from trains for summer hay harvest.

In answer to your question, I spent many years working on assembly lines, first at Goodyear, then at a large midwest optical factory, then assembling small electronic components on an instrument of my own design for NASA.  I'm used to a progressive order of work and near absolute precision.

Whether I have only one car to rebuild or 50, the process is always orderly.  I have to disagree, at least for me there is no such thing as being too organized.  Spending 6 years in the military probably had something to do with that. 

Since my retirement, my priorities sometimes get out of order, but for me it's a relief from all those years of strict deadlines. Today I am totally independent, as you can probably tell.  :D

Bob : Your work place looks fine.  Mine is usually a mess . I try to organize work areas and sometimes suceed for a little while but invariably forget to return tools to their places and materials to their racks.   I do admit to trying to keep lawn and yard equipment in the barn where it is easier to find them, but have had one lawn tractor in the shop with a faulty trans since last summer hoping to feel guilty enough to drop the rear axle and find out where I misplaced the neutral gear position. Too many hobbies and vices not always enough time ,money, or motivation.

I can prove today's products are over engineered.  Whenever I put something back together there is always at least one piece left over, but it still works.

A neat and tidy work bench/desk is the sign of a sick mind.

When I was helping to repair machine tools I often had that same condition come up . Could never figure out how that came to be since I was the one disassembled and cleaned the parts.  Strange universe!!! john II

Yesterday my wife was vacuuming the carpet in my office and heard a slight "clink." We checked the canister and sure enough, found a tiny screw.  One of my locos is missing a screw but I have no clue which one.

One time I was on my hands and knees, running a hand over the carpet, trying to find a tiny spring too small to see.  My wife happened to walk by in the hall, and just shook her head. 

This will undoubtedly draw another wise crack from Paul.  :D

In regards to small borderline visible springs I know what you are talking about .  I started  assembling  some  Kadee Couplers and lost two of the copper color coil springs from the Knuckle  and possibly one of the steel color coil springs just about the same size .  I am seriously thinking about pricing a stereo microscope for assembly of fine parts. I also think one of those jeweler's aprons would help somewhat as well .  Thank God I had some small clamps and  "C" clamps in the shop .    Needed three or more hands to accomplish some things was lucky I had  one of those third hand clamping devices for soldering parts in the desk drawer. The magifying lense helped a little.  Ran out of the shop to go get Eggs from a neighbor and had my magnifier  on my head & left it in sisters truck .  She left for work on Monday and wont be back till Sunday earliest . Should probably break down and buy a spare to combat forgetfullness .

Six inches of tread will save a million kd springs.  When replacing the springs, run a tread in the spring.  If it tries to fly it
can't take off.  Once the spring is in place just pull the tread out. Slowly.  It works every time.

Quote from: RAM on September 11, 2008, 10:43:22 PM
Six inches of tread will save a million kd springs.  When replacing the springs, run a tread in the spring.  If it tries to fly it
can't take off.  Once the spring is in place just pull the tread out. Slowly.  It works every time.



GREETINGS!! ;D
        In the given context of this writing, it would appear that "tread" should be "tHread". Is my understanding correct?
                                                                                          THANX!!
                                                        8)                                 Ernie
P.S.
        If my understanding IS correct, then it is a very good idea, and I appreciate it!!
                                                                                              ECD

I Would love to see a video on the conversion!
Robert

Hi Robert, thanks for reviewing my thread.

Unfortunately I'm not able to produce videos of the conversion. However, if you follow the instructions carefully you shouldn't have any problem. The main thing is to acquire the necessary stryene tubing and cement, available at most hobby shops.

If you need additional information I will be glad to assist you via email. 

Regards.

Quote from Bob: This will undoubtedly draw another wise crack from Paul.  Cheesy

Bob, Did your wife ever take a picture of you searching for the spring? I would have told you to wait a few months, its on the calender. 
Probably looked like one of those flat painted things of a farmers backside that people put in there garden
(http://www.woodcraftsandpatterns.com/images/products/YD219_Backside_Man_&_Dog.jpg)

Its never too late to crumb on Bob!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I find the simplest way to find dropped springs, screws, etc., is to walk across the floor after dark,  barefoot, with the lights off.

Len

My office / shop is carpeted. If I drop a small part, it usually grows legs and ends up 10 feet away, hiding behind a box or table leg.  8)

Have to admit the most comfortable and safest floors for a shop were standing wood blocks .  These were made of wood with the grain running vertically , and were  around  8" x 4" x 2" and usually black in color . If you dropped anything it dinged the blocks but was not usually damaged . Only problem was you could lose small parts in the gap between blocks. Since they were not glued down they could be removed .

Bob
I wanted to say thanks for the advice on doing this upgrade. I decided to try one out and it came out great! Now I have now done about 10 so far I have had very good luck.  I may want to make a little Youtube video on it one day.  Thanks again! Next are some older engines that I would love to make them "new" again.
Robert

Dear Robert,
I'm glad you found the tutorial helpful. How time flies, hard to believe the thread is over a year old and still active.

Some of the details aren't too clear, but guess you got the idea. I think a video would be a great idea.   8)

I like almost everything in this tutorial, but would not reuse/modify the Talgo trucks that employ this kind of molded friction pin.  Instead, I would just bite the bullet and get new trucks that take a screw in the middle.  Just my 2 cents. ;)

J Hanecker;
The "Blocks" are a great idea, and is as old as the hills.  Pratt & Whitney, Hamilton Standard, Sikorsky, Chandler/Evans,
etc.; had those floors throughout their shop areas.  When I first got out of the Air Force and entered the work force in Connecticut and saw those floors for the first time in a "Civilian" setting, I thought they were a really neat way to go; I asked one of the maintenance people why they used it, and he told me that if they dropped an assemblage, particularly an intricate weighty one, chances are it wouldn't get too damaged.  I was also surprised at just how 'long' those blocks were!  As an aside, I was also surprised as to how many motors were in these shops...

Rich C.

I remember installing those blocks in my  "old mans " shop  back in the late Sixties .  He got them from a former employer  who had removed  them when they remodeled  their  shops .    If  I was designing  a shop I would be tempted   to use that type of blocks to  cut down  on noise  &  damage  to dropped  tools .
It would also  make standing  much more comfortable .   John2.

John;
Scaling it down to 87:1, that would be a dandy floor for an exposed shop area...  By the way-What is that god-awful smell with those floors?  After about 15 minutes of that, I would be heading for the door.

On subject:  Athearn passenger trucks are set up Talgo-style.  It is an interesting proposition re-modelling those cars.  I, instead, bought some 6-wheel "really sprung" trucks.  Boy, you should see these puppies-just like in the old days!
I have been toying with the idea of taking some of those Athearn paxngr cars and cutting them down to 60 or 61 scale feet.  Have you done any of that stuff?  The biggest reason is on my (present) design, I have this killer curve (and that is exactly what it is called...) that not only is about an R-24", but it goes from one level to another; hence the reason.   I also have a section of topography called the "Devil's Cut" (now where did I get that name from?)...

Rich C.

To  E.W.K.      To the best of my recollection  those Blocks were  Black with some  kind of  tar  like substance .  They were usually fastened to the floor with the same substance .   When removed they were mechanically  scraped off  .  Have to admit the recycled blocks  POP got had been  out  in the  Field for quite a while and had been literally  been  weathered for  some time and did not have any extreme bouquet .  They were still in the shop  when  POP sold the building . I was under the impression that they were some type of  OAK .   John2.

I've often wondered, but not researched, whether, and when, talgo trucks for model trains got their name from the Spanish company Talgo which started making real trains in the 1940s. http://www.talgo.com/index.php/en/tecnologia.php

Quote"Talgo Technology

The Talgo key success factors are innovation, technology, sustainability, security, quality and competitiveness, with a clear focus on customer orientation in all of its projects.

Because of its proven, unique and highly efficient technology, Talgo trains are internationally recognized as the best in their class in terms of safety, energy efficiency, lightness, accessibility and comfort.

Talgo trains have a series of technological principles that characterize them and differ from other manufacturer trains:

Variable Gauge
Natural tilting system
Guided axles and independent Wheels
Articulated union between coaches
Lightweight construction
Accessibility"

Where's Flash Gordon? "Talgo Series 1 (1942)"
http://web.talgoamerica.com/historic-milestones