There's an article in the current SCALE RAILS which advocates automatic transmission fluid - lightly applied - for track cleaning.
Anybody tried it?
Gene
Amzoil makes the following claims for their synthetic ATF:
Corrosion inhibitors, antioxidants, moisture dispersants, surfactants, friction modifiers, and 10 other benefits. The one benefit missing is "conductivity". It is after all primarily a lubricant. If there is any logic to that, it totally escapes me.
I use a "surfactant" mixed with weed killer, supposed to break down the oily surface of weed leaves so the herbicide can do it's job. Any connection there?
I spent $10 for a bottle of Walther's track cleaner because the LHS recommended it. Under "ingredients" is says "Nonionic surfactants and water soluble organic solvents". Not being a chemist, I have no idea what that means.
Since it is odorless and tasteless, I can only assume it should be labeled "Colored Water". I've considered taking it to the high school for a chemical analysis.
Bob
Gene, I haven't tried ATF but regularly use oil on all my layouts. The oils that work best are light (low viscosity,) non-oxidizing and plastics compatible (if you have plastic wheels.) If they are called "conducting," don't expect them to conduct electricity in bulk. All "conducting" means is that in thin layers, they do not stop the flow of electricity. I suspect that ATF can form thin enough layers. We know it doesn't oxidize, even under extreme conditions. Plastics compatible? I don't know. If you run all metal wheels, or if your plastic wheels are all Delrin or other form of Nylon, then it should be worth a try. But if all you are looking for is a cheaper alternative to the usual hobby shop lines of conductive oils, then why not try the old standard Wahl hair clipper oil?
ATF Is a high detergent lubricant . The detergent factor might assist in cleaning the track but it is a lubricant and could make your track quite slippery.
Whatever happened to 3 in 1 oil .
Don
Well, I admit to being confused. I thought the idea is to clean the tracks, not "lube the rails". I didn't think nickel silver rails ever suffered from oxidation or corrosion.
To be honest, I haven't cleaned my rails for 6 months, even though I bought the cleaner. Since all my cars have metal wheels, I figure there is no real need. I have seen no decrease in performance. If I ran plastic wheels, then I woud probably be concerned.
Bob
Rail Zip (Zap) looks and smells like transmission fluid.
It's the only stuff I use on my GER, which runs very infrequently these days but always runs well when it does.
Rail Zip (Zap) looks and smells like transmission fluid.
Yeah...It does. Who'da thunk it?
Rich
An old standby was Wahl clipper oil - a couple of dabs on the rails cleaned wheels and helped conductivity. I haven't tried to buy it recently.
wd40, you see.
Oil, you have to be joking and I hope you do not have grades.
I have been using scotch brite on my cleaner car, brass track, for 8 years and I keep my tack dry.
No contact problem.
Bud
The Severna Park Model Railroad Club has used Wahl clipper oil for years, works great.
Since automatic transmissions contain endless numbers of little plastic/rubber parts, it makes sense it would be both plastic safe and clensing in nature.
The trick with any oil based track cleaning system is SPARINGLY!
I have seen some of the layouts of the people mentioned in the Scale Rails article, they ran great.
Bud, light oil, used sparingly, will have no negative effect on grades. One person in the Scale Rails article even explains that right after application he has occasional slipping on grades, but once it is evenly distributed, no problems.
The Severna Park club layout has very steep grades, 3% plus. the use of Wahl clipper oil has never caused a problem there.
The other benifit of oil is it reduces arcing, which can be a real problem with DCC.
Sheldon
The other benifit of oil is it reduces arcing, which can be a real problem with DCC.
Sheldon;
This is why the older high-voltage transformers (over KV) had oil in them.
This is especially prevalent on the viaduct from New Haven to GCT in The City. If you look at an anchor bridge, you will see switch gear-and this is/was rated at 11,000VAC, so an oil type switch gear was almost a neccessity as the arcing sustained on an air-type switch would shorten the life of the gear drastically. The arc between the catenary and the pans on a moving electric locomotive is evidence of the potential.
And yes, to anyone not familiar with the characteristics of alternating current; arcing is a force to be reckoned with in a make/break application.
So Bud is still using brass track? with good results? To tell the truth, I seem to be cleaning my NS on this new layout as much as I had to clean the brass I was using 30-40 years ago... some of that old brass is back down as seldom used sidings, and now that my stash of NS switches is drying up, I am considering using the rest of the old brass ones for future additions or changes. Before- or duing the push for nickel-silver, there was suppose to be a chemical coating for brass rail, whatever happened to that? Someone semi knowledgeable told me it was found to be very toxic- Too bad, 'cause I believe electrically speaking, brass is hard to beat.. please don't make me dig up the elements chart and metalurgical textbooks...
Who is responsible for Chug today? Notice, he didn't make a single post on Friday when I had the duty, despite being ill myself.
OTOH, check the WD-40 website - IIRC, they make claims that would make a patent medicine salesman blush.
Gene
wd40 kept col hoary's fly quick for the brats but that was before the automatic transmission caught on and hunt started using alcohol so forth.
Gene
Ok, I'll bite. What the heck is IIRC?
Bob
If I remember correctly. :D
Gene
Out in the garden, the cheapest type of rail is aluminum. Some of us swear by it. Others swear at it. Those of us who swear by it know the problems that can occur with track powered trains when you forget to oil the rails. Locomotive wheels rolling over bits of dust arc when they break contact with the rails. The arcing pits the wheels and leaves aluminum oxide on the rails. Aluminum oxide is an excellent insulator. So next time the locomotive passes over the same spot, the arcing occurs again as the wheels hit the aluminum oxide. With each pass of the locomotive, the patch of aluminum oxide grows until the locomotive stalls at that spot. Cleaning the rails helps somewhat, but the pitting of the wheels and the rails guarantees that arcing and pitting will start again, and sooner each time the rails are cleaned. Now we know the frustration of the people who swear at aluminum rails.
Those of us in the know add a tiny bit of oil to the rails, typically one drop on each rail every 100 feet. This is enough to suppresses arcing for an evening of railroading. For a day long show, adding more oil may be necessary after three of four hours running. Seeing the headlight start to flicker is a sign that it is time for more oil. We still have to clean track. We have to pick up twigs, cut back vines, and remove those presents left by the dogs. We still have to run a pole sander over the rails, usually once a year after the snow has melted. Last year I had to use the pole sander a second time because I was unable to run trains for a couple of months in the summer. Otherwise, as long as I run once or twice a week, oil is enough to keep the rails clean.
So why don't the rails collect a lot of dust? I am not sure, but I suspect that stickiness, like slipperiness and insulating properties all change when you are dealing with layers of oil that are only a few molecules thick. That drop of oil per 100 feet of track is only about 0.00001 inches thick once spread out. Fine dust (fine like cement powder) is about twice this size, so this also might play a part.
However the oil works, the important thing is that it does work. Just don't use too much. Summer will come to the frozen north eventually, and just for the heck of it, this year I will try Gene's automatic transmission fluid.
when I had the duty, despite being ill myself.
Gene;
At the risk of being called stupid, what "duty" had you? Is there a hierachy here of which I am not aware?
Remember something about a leash? I was just playing on that. After all, somebody has to hold or manage the leash, right? :D
Gene
OD usually means officer on duty. Around here it's called officer of the dummy. Tell Alex the Troll Spray doesn't work. Please take my name off the duty roster and call the S.P.C.A.
Bob
Bob, in the Army it's Officer of the Day, in the Navy, Officer of the Deck. :D You realizes that decreases the roster.
Gene
Gene:
Yes, we knew it as officer of the day also. However some of the 90 day wonders we had didn't know what day it was. :D I think it's time for Rich to pull duty, don't you think?
Bob
I think it's time for Rich to pull duty, don't you think?
Gee; thanks, Bob. I think.
Rich
Be careful using ATF as a track cleaner. Some types actually attack plastic while others (Dexron Mercon comes to mind) are plastic compatible. Any type of ATF WILL make the rails slick and is a dust collector of the worst kind. Been there and done that.
Why not just stick to Wahl's?
I tried the transmission fluid and it worked but now my car won't go!
Quote from: r.cprmier on March 26, 2008, 03:05:44 PM
Why not just stick to Wahl's?
Nah, too easy!
I read somewhere that it is a prerequisite of being a forumite to reinvent the wheel on a periodic basis.
G,D,&R
Mike
Dear Friends,
At the risk of being branded a "cross threader," I will add that my diesel mechanic friend uses this stuff as fuel injector cleaner, about 1 oz/gal fuel for diesel or gasoline. I have used it in my older gas engines and it seems to do a nice job.
Of course, you use this stuff at your own risk, as I will not be responsible for an engine rebuild if you go overboard and use gallons of the stuff! ;D
Best Wishes,
Jack
Quote from: jsmvmd on March 27, 2008, 10:57:31 AM
Dear Friends,
At the risk of being branded a "cross threader," I will add that my diesel mechanic friend uses this stuff as fuel injector cleaner, about 1 oz/gal fuel for diesel or gasoline. I have used it in my older gas engines and it seems to do a nice job.
Of course, you use this stuff at your own risk, as I will not be responsible for an engine rebuild if you go overboard and use gallons of the stuff! ;D
Best Wishes,
Jack
LOL.....I'm a serious hotrodder.......we pour a litre or two down the carb throats of old engines that are all carboned up. Run 'em at a 2000 RPM idle and drizzle the ATF through the primary bores.....cleans out the combustion chambers nicely.
Add a half litre to the crankcase oil to help a sticky lifter too.
Sid
I knew a guy in Hawaii while stationed there, who used to do just that with his GTO. A quart of tranny fluid in every other oil change, and that car ran good. Knowing Laciste, I wish I had that car today!!!