Bachmann could build a nice pre-1905 typical consolidation using the ten-wheeler boiler and tender with a new frame using the 57"drivers from the Chinese Mikado.
(http://lostengines.railfan.net/944.JPG)
It would be a typical 2-8-0 from the 1895-1905 era and would fill a big void.
Harold
I won't argue on the need for a mid-size 2-8-0 like that, but I'd also like to see something that would be equally useful, like this: http://www.mountsavagehistoricalsociety.org/c&p/images/C&P%20LOCOMOTIVES.htm
Those are 50" driver consolidations that can be bashed from the Roundhouse 2-8-0.
There is no 57" driver consolidation available in any scale and there are a whole bunch of prototypes. Like all the southern, harriman UP etc. 2-8-0's
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/cons/sou186pineyriverva941.html (http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/cons/sou186pineyriverva941.html)
Harold
Interesting choice you are requesting.
What with the Roundhouse 2-8-0 offering of late I do not see Bachmann being overly interested in bringing out a model so similar.
I would rather see the mogul or prairie models that others are requesting.
Quote from: Pacific Northern on April 10, 2008, 07:41:43 PM
Interesting choice you are requesting.
What with the Roundhouse 2-8-0 offering of late I do not see Bachmann being overly interested in bringing out a model so similar.
I would rather see the mogul or prairie models that others are requesting.
It is far from similar, the Roundhouse 2-8-0 is not even close to the 57" driver 2-8-0's which were the backbone of freight railroading for a long period.
There are several Moguls and praries available or can be bashed from available mechanisms, but there are no 57" driver 2-8-0 available.
Harold
With Bachmann releasing the very popular 2-8-0 I certainly do not see another 2-8-0 in the works any time soon.
However that certainly does not mean that we can not ask(wish) for what we would like.
I would strongly second the idea of a turn-of-the-century 2-8-0 similar to the 4-6-0. They would probably turn to the M&P for a prototype. My Tonopah and Tidewater could use several. Just make it easily compatible with the same Vanderbilt tender. - Nevin
I'll second the Ma&Pa 2-8-0 idea - the light ones or the heavies.
Wade
Quote from: NevinW on April 11, 2008, 08:40:05 AM
I would strongly second the idea of a turn-of-the-century 2-8-0 similar to the 4-6-0. They would probably turn to the M&P for a prototype. My Tonopah and Tidewater could use several. Just make it easily compatible with the same Vanderbilt tender. - Nevin
D-oh!!!! That is the Roundhouse 2-8-0. Why are people always highjacking threads???
If you want your Giggle and Hee-haw 2-2-2 start your own thread.
Highly agitated
Harold
If you would like to stop a thread please continue with more replies like your last one Harold.
Wade
Quote from: wade on April 11, 2008, 10:41:42 AM
If you would like to stop a thread please continue with more replies like your last one Harold.
Wade
Why shouldn't I be rude when people come on a thread and change the subject, i.e. hijack? I see it all the time on forums, if you don't want to discuss what is in the subject line start your own thread.
And if you don't know what you are talking about please don't comment.
REALLY AGITATED
Harold
Fine job Harold.
What's been hijacked?
Gene
Amazing.
Harold....normal human convesation doesn't always stay on topic......things come up, other ideas get integrated.....one question leads to another.
Short of a brief mention of a 4-6-0, I fail to see how this thread has been hijacked.....you did more damage to it, yourself, by bringing on these replies.
Sid
Harold.
The discussion is about a 57 inch 2-8-0.
So, someone mentions the release of the Roundhouse 2-8-0 that with the Spectrum 2-8-0 already gives us two 2-8-0s on the market which reduces the chances of someone else produciing another 2-8-0.
That is still ON TOPIC, it's a 2-8-0, which is what the discussion is about. Wheel size is of lesser importantance when explaining market forces and why the likelyhood of your request being met is very low.
The MDC old time 2-8-0 I think had something like 44 inch and the other is 63 inch
Harold;
I believe you have way too much spare time on your hands. You should try a hobby perhaps...
There is also the IHC 2-8-0, which may be the IHC USRA 0-8-0 with a pony truck added.
Gene
Harold: Try decaffenated. - Nevin
I think it's a great suggestion. We would benefit from more steam models of common (ie. typical) wheel arrangements.
Rather than three versions of a Big Boy, multiple copies of K-4s and GS4s I'd prefer more variations of 4-4-0, 2-6-0, 2-8-0, and so on.
Look at Bachmann's british model line -- at least a dozen different 4-6-0s and multiple railroad specific models sharing common wheel arrangments.
There is no logical reason we should fail to ask for models of specific prototypes. Let the manufacturers decide what they'll make - we can't "control" their choices, but asking is a healthy exercise, criticizing someone for wanting what they want is a mind game attempt to moderate the board.
Paul F.
Quote from: paulsafety on April 12, 2008, 10:54:52 AM
Look at Bachmann's british model line -- at least a dozen different 4-6-0s and multiple railroad specific models sharing common wheel arrangments.
Paul F.
Paul.
The UK hobby scene is different from the North American market.
In the UK, every independent railway had it's unique design of locomotives, freight cars even station buildings, signals and fencing. Therefore, if you model the Great Western Railway, then all you'll purchase is (usually) ex GWR steam locos or locos that could have run on the ex GWR.
Bachmann and and other manufacturers know this so in order to survive in the UK market they will procude several say 2-6-0s. Perhaps two different classes of ex GWR 2-6-0s, (The GWR being the most popular railway to model) maybe one ex SR 2-6-0, perhaps one ex LNER 2-6-0, perhaps two classes of ex LMS 2-6-0 and finally a British Railways built 2-6-0. The UK ex GWR modeller, modelling the British Railways period could purchase the two ex GWR classes, perhaps the ex SR 2-6-0 and maybe the ex BR 2-6-0 as all thse cound have run over GWR metals. Again, bachmann know this as do the other manufacturers, so that's what they will produce. If the modeller modelled a different part of the ex GWR, then they may purchase the ex LMS 2-6-0 but not the ex SR 2-6-0 as that ran in a different part of the country. Complicated, eh?
UK model freight cars are the same. You don't have the equivilant of a PS1 boxcar that was purchased in bulk from a boxcar manufacture. If the UK railway didn't build it's own design of boxcars in its own shops, then contract builders would build to the railways specific design. Therefore, you won't see Bachmann produce a model of an ex LNER "boxcar" letter for the GWR, or SR ot LMS, it just wouldn't sell. Unlike here in North America where we are quite happy to use Athearn Blue Box boxcars or any manufacturers' passenger cars lettered for every railroad under the sun. That just won't fly in the UK. Ditto for locomotives.
Quote from: rogertra on April 12, 2008, 11:25:54 AM
Quote from: paulsafety on April 12, 2008, 10:54:52 AM
Look at Bachmann's british model line -- at least a dozen different 4-6-0s and multiple railroad specific models sharing common wheel arrangments.
Paul F.
Paul.
In the UK, every independent railway had it's unique design of locomotives, freight cars even station buildings, signals and fencing. Therefore, if you model the Great Western Railway, then all you'll purchase is (usually) ex GWR steam locos or locos that could have run on the ex GWR.
Bachmann and and other manufacturers know this so in order to survive in the UK market they will procude several say 2-6-0s. Perhaps two different classes of ex GWR 2-6-0s, (The GWR being the most popular railway to model) maybe one ex SR 2-6-0, perhaps one ex LNER 2-6-0, perhaps two classes of ex LMS 2-6-0 and finally a British Railways built 2-6-0. The UK ex GWR modeller, modelling the British Railways period could purchase the two ex GWR classes, perhaps the ex SR 2-6-0 and maybe the ex BR 2-6-0 as all thse cound have run over GWR metals. Again, bachmann know this as do the other manufacturers, so that's what they will produce. If the modeller modelled a different part of the ex GWR, then they may purchase the ex LMS 2-6-0 but not the ex SR 2-6-0 as that ran in a different part of the country. Complicated, eh?
UK model freight cars are the same. You don't have the equivilant of a PS1 boxcar that was purchased in bulk from a boxcar manufacture. If the UK railway didn't build it's own design of boxcars in its own shops, then contract builders would build to the railways specific design. Therefore, you won't see Bachmann produce a model of an ex LNER "boxcar" letter for the GWR, or SR ot LMS, it just wouldn't sell. Unlike here in North America where we are quite happy to use Athearn Blue Box boxcars or any manufacturers' passenger cars lettered for every railroad under the sun. That just won't fly in the UK. Ditto for locomotives.
Thanks for clearing things up.....prototype modlers in the UK actually model specific railways with railroad specific steam engine designs.....not at all like here in the USA...... ;D :D ;)
I think I was trying to ask the question; "why can't we have the same variety of choices as a UK modeler?" Are there more modelers in the UK than the USA; therfore, a larger potential customer base?
Why can't we
ask for a Western Maryland 4-6-2, a Southern PS-4,
and other 4-6-2's that were specific to a railroad? Recent polls about a prefered 4-6-2 model were couched in an underlying tone of "since we're likely limited to get only one, which one would you be willing to buy?" Why couldn't that "feel" different -- as in, "which one would you like to see first, second, third, etc.
Regarding wagons and vans in the UK, I'm not sure I agree. Your point seems to ignore mfg's such as Westerfield, F&C, Atlas's recent offerings, the very wide range of Budd, ACF and even railroad specific passenger cars from Walthers, BLI, Athearn (Genesis). The skill needed to extensively modify an existing plastic or resin box car to a specific variation is similar, but also different that the level of tools and expertise needed to scratch build or extensively modify a steamer with valve gear and odd sized drivers. Can modelers kit bash steam or scratchbuild it? Of course, but should they have to do so when manufacturers continue to publish the same loco as other manufacturers (i.e. my reference to multiple copies of big boys, daylight GS4, PRR K-4 when the same efforts could have focused on expanding the overall variety in the entire marketplace).
Sometimes taking a marketing risk bombs, sometimes it creates or wakes up an entire market segment. Examples -- On30, IRT Subway models, Peter Witt, the Spectrum 2-8-0 (not a USRA engine, and not even a pure IC model), the three truck shay and climax models in HO. These models represented a risk when introduced. Because they were extremely well made (kudos Bachmann) they expanded the marketplace. People who were normally "diesel" modelers liked the looks of the 2-8-0 and how well it ran so they considered or actually got one. Modelers in standard gauge O, HO and even G are itching to try out On30. Variety begets sales if done well.
Thank you for your comments, rogertra. I am in awe of your layout and obvious model making skills. I hope that someday I can emulate your efforts. 8)
Paul F.
in the period of 1890 and 1910 Samuel Vaulcain of Baldwin Locomotive works had a very large influance on locomotive design in the US. While many railroads had their own ideas on motive power, the Vaulcain idea of compounf cylinders was used. Almost all major railroads ordered locomotives with this setup. Many 2-8-0s were delivered with compund cylinders. The specific period Harold asked for would have most 57' drivered 2-8-0s with this setup.
The same locomotives were rebuilt in the 'teens to simple after the extra cost of maintenance was figured out. Most of these locomotives lasted until the end of steam as simple units. The correct question is what period do you want these models to be in?
Someone mentioned the MDC 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 mod4ls. While thye have a general Harriman theme, they are not models of any specific SP class and more resemble the Bull Frog and Tonopah, Las Vegas and Tonopah and Tonopah Railroad locomotives after SP purchased a good portion of them and rebuilt them. They are basically simple versions of Baldwin catalog locomotives of the period that could be found all across the country. They are great for model railroads with 18 inch radius curves. The original MDC drivetrains suck. I mill the frames and install NWSL gear boxes and have fewer problems.
A nice set of common 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 locomotives of this type would be welcome and I'd go so far as to ask for them to be Spectrum though putting a speaker in a short vandy tender is a pain.
Hi Harold
I'm all for your suggestion, if they ever make it I'll take two for sure.
DRG had some 2-8-0 very similar to my Connies, the domes were a bit taller and the light was on top. I plan to bash one of mine into a 1900 Rio Grande. I'm not a rivet counter, just want something that looks good pulling my vintage coaches.
Here's an old latin proverb for ya: "Illigitimi non carborundum"..... :D
Bob
the Vaulcain idea of compounf cylinders was used. Almost all major railroads ordered locomotives with this setup. they are not models of any specific SP class and more resemble the Bull Frog and Tonopah, Las Vegas and Tonopah and Tonopah Railroad locomotives after SP purchased a good portion of them and rebuilt them.
Japasha: There is a good photo of a leased SP Vaulcain Compound being used in the construction of the Las Vegas and Tonopah RR. Do you know if any of those Vaulcain compound 2-8-0s were ever produced in brass? That type would make a great plastic model of someone were to produce it. - Nevin
I don't recall having ever seen anyone manufacture a Vauclain compound model. Maybe one in brass way back when. I suspect the issue here is that they only lasted a very short time. While they may have been moderately successful in operating efficiency, they suffered from machinery complications, and therefore higher maintenace costs. These might have been ultimately dealt with, but the introduction of the superheater spelled the end of the compounds. The Schmidt superheater gained almost as much efficiency as the Vauclain system, and it had no moving parts. Granted, the cylinder block had to be replaced, but apparently that was considered an acceptable trade-off. By the end of WWI, the Vauclains were rapidly disappearing.
I wonder if this request for another 2-8-0 might be directed to one of the manufactures who have not currently available a 2-8-0?
Perhaps Walthers as part of their Heritage line?
Quote from: Pacific Northern on April 14, 2008, 03:26:06 PM
I wonder if this request for another 2-8-0 might be directed to one of the manufactures who have not currently available a 2-8-0?
Perhaps Walthers as part of their Heritage line?
The reason I directed it toward Bachmann is that a 57" driver consolidation could be built from the existing tooling and parts. The 4-6-0 only needs new inserts to the frame tooling to make a new driver spacing, the drivers and side rods can come from the the Chinese mikado. It would be a rather easy model to make and a wide majority of consolidations were made to that configuration. Far more than the 62" drivers now available.
The largest selling brass model was a 57" drivered Santa Fe consolidation made by Pacific Fast Mail in the '50s and '60's and made famous by John Allen.
Harold
Quote from: r.cprmier on April 11, 2008, 02:59:47 PM
Harold;
I believe you have way too much spare time on your hands. You should try a hobby perhaps...
???
Rich and others likeminded ... last I looked Harold has a hobby and is better than most at it.
Take a look http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/
I spend a lot of time reading Harold's site. I for one appreciate the work he puts into his "how tos". I didn't mean to "pirate" your thread Harold, just had to get my nickel in.
I am always amazed when someone says they want to see something made, and everyone else says oh no, we don't want that, we need this. We have over 3,000 members on the forum, I seldom see two people agree on anything. LOL.
Bob
Thank you Hunt for reminding people about Harold's reputation in this hobby. His work and site is a delight to visit.
Harold's request is focused, thoughtful and if Bachmann were to market one I would probably buy it.
Since I was the one accused of hijacking the thread I would like to point out that I was actually AGREEING with Harold about the need a pre-WW1 consolidation. All I said was they (Bachmann) would probably turn to a Ma & Pa prototype since that is what they chose for their recent 4-6-0 and the 4-4-0. Since I model the Tonopah and Tidewater I would prefer a 2-8-0 based on that prototype but that is very unlikely. I don't really want a Ma & Pa prototype but if that is what they end up making then I will kitbash into what I need. - Nevin