Is there a convenient data source online for what kinds of cars were used in a particular era?
I am interested in modeling ATSF in the 1950s, and would like to find a reference for what kinds of cars would be appropriate. I am mostly interested in freight, but may want some passenger cars also.
I don't think the covered hopper in the "Iron Duke" set, with the "Propylene Co-Polymer" markings, really matches up well with the 0-6-0 switcher, for example. Oh, yes--I prefer N guage, but my question is really about the prototype cars.
Thanks,
Dave
You might locate an "Official Railway Equipment Register" for your time period. They are available at some swap meets. The book lists the railroad, car type, road numbers, dimensions, capacity, & door size (when applicable).
The denver public library has many railroad pictures taken by otto perry. There are pictures that not only show the engines, his point of interest, but the cars they pulled. Freight would have been mostly 40 footers, passenger could be heavies, shorties, streamlined, wooden, whatever
Boxcars would have running boards, and there would also be a fair amount of 50-footers.
I joined the Santa Fe Modeler and Technical Society for that reason.
They have a good bunch of ATSF freight car reference books for sale.
40' box cars, AAR & PS-1, some USRA or other wood sheafed still runing some 50", single and double door.
2 & 3 bay, 50-70 ton hoppers
40/50' flat cars, same for gons
stock cars - lots on the Santa Fe
6-10,000 gallon tankers, one, two, and three domes
50 ton covered hoppers.
roof walks, full ladders, no lube stencils
Road names would be primarily western, but PRR, NYC, Southern, sure to make an appearance, a few granger cars, and the odd eastern railroad orphan.
Gene
How about reefers? I think ATSF had some with the system map on the side. You could always use a few PFE reefers.
Now why did I forget reefers? Of course. Mostly 40' - I believe still mostly ice bunker.
Gene
Thanks for the information! I'm sure I'll be back, but this is a good starting place.
I spent some of my "wonder years" in Kingman Arizona, playing on #3759 (4-8-4 Northern). I'm sketching out the changes to make my Bachmann 3780 look more like 3759.
Quote from: Dr EMD on June 02, 2008, 09:09:26 PMI joined the Santa Fe Modeler and Technical Society for that reason...
I googled them, but didn't get anything useful. Do you have contact information?
Thanks again,
Dave
Quote from: pdlethbridge on June 02, 2008, 07:27:38 PM
The denver public library has many railroad pictures taken by otto perry....
This is truely a great resource! I did a search just using the keyword "train" fom 1949 to 1960 and it came up with
247 pages of photos!
Thanks!
Dave
They've got many, many T&P images!
Quote from: Woody Elmore on June 03, 2008, 09:09:19 AM
How about reefers? I think ATSF had some with the system map on the side. You could always use a few PFE reefers.
got one, it says " Ship santa fe all the way" kinda catchy. I use it to join kadee couplers to xf2 ones.
Gene.
Not only 40ft cars but 36footers as well.
Remember, a freight car's life is around 25 years before it needs to be rebuilt. So, in 1955 you have a few cars from the early 1930s to mid 1930s still running around.
Then, in the 1950s, cars came in many more heights. They weren't all the Athearn, single sheath, 40ft boxcar type. There were many cars that had lower roofs. Big Mistake II also slowed down the introduction of new cars so many older cars, those from the 1930s, were still running around in a greater proportion that would otherwise have been expected.
As I didn't arrive in Canada until 1966, I refer to photos to get the "feel" for my 1958 Great Eastern.
BTW, keep in mind that even in the mid 1960s, when I arrived in Canada, there were still many, many ice reefers in service. I recall seeing lines of them in Turcott Yard in Montreal, mainly western road reefers to boot.
http://www.atsfrr.com/ (http://www.atsfrr.com/)
Quote from: Dave_W6DPS on June 03, 2008, 12:11:53 PM
Thanks for the information! I'm sure I'll be back, but this is a good starting place.
I spent some of my "wonder years" in Kingman Arizona, playing on #3759 (4-8-4 Northern). I'm sketching out the changes to make my Bachmann 3780 look more like 3759.
Quote from: Dr EMD on June 02, 2008, 09:09:26 PMI joined the Santa Fe Modeler and Technical Society for that reason...
I googled them, but didn't get anything useful. Do you have contact information?
Thanks again,
Dave
There was another member inquiring about the Kingman depot, haven't seem him on here for a long time.
I found the Denver Public Library a great resource when researching western railroads. PD Lethbridge's wife may keep him locked in the basement, but he sure gets around the net, and clued me in on the Otto Perry collection.
Check out this website for all kinds of information:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/
I think that therre was a book in the past year or so dealing with the "Fifties freight car fleet" I don't have time to look for it now--perhaps someone knows of it. gj
DrEMD;
I passed that engine in Kingman, Arizona in 1967, driving back on US rte 66, enroute across the states to Connecticut. It was big, majestic, beautiful, and exuded the very essense of power. I will never forget her, facing westr'd. what a sight! She's been there a long time, apparently.
The Old Reprobate
"PD Lethbridge's wife may keep him locked in the basement, but he sure gets around the net,"
She is kind enough to let me use the bathroom,,,,,every few days! But only if I have too go! ;D
OK--I found the book:
"The Postwar Freight Car Fleet" by Larry Kline and Ted Culotta, published by NMRA, Kalmbach Memorial Library, 2006. ISBN 0-9647050-8-7
Author Culotta has frequent articles in RMC on freight car modeling.
NMRA also has a couple of reprints of the ORER (Official Railway Equipment Register) for sale.
Dave, About the only thing that is the smae with the 2750 class and the 3780 is that they are both 4-8-4s. If you want a 3730 class 4-8-4 look for a BLI. Yes it cost more but it is a very nice locomotive.
The only freight car that was missed in the conversation was the cattle car .I have been trying to build a train long enough to represent a train of about say 25 to 50 cars with various road names but they seem to be in short supply. My preference is the wooden slat style . I don't know how many different road names there might be . Anybody got an answer .
Don ???
I have some stock cars, they are lettered Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, and MKT. I also have several undecorated Athearn kits I found in Kansas last year. They must be pretty old, the price tags are $1.98.
I think Santa Fe had the most stock cars, since they covered the Texas area. RedTail67 could probably add to the list of roads that used them.
Hey Red, are you still up?
Most of your cattle cars should be the home roads. It was not often that one railroad would used another railroads cattle cars.
It is quite common to see a mix of road names. During our 25 years of ranching, we sold our beef cattle in lots, one lot may go to Nebraska, one to Kansas, one to Chicago. all to different buyers. Similarly, a local packer may buy a lot from a rancher in Texas. Through the shipping process, cars are often handed off to other railroads.
It is the interconnectivity of the railroad system that makes it work efficiently. It's a matter of logistics and economics.
The same is true with freight cars. I see many Santa Fe cars in the local yard, and I'm sure BNSF knows exactly where the cars are at.
I just checked my inventory, I also have stock cars in WP, MP, CNW and SSW. Union Pacific has 16 reporting marks.
Don: I sent emails to some of my dealer friends around the country, hope to find some old Athearn or Roundhouse stock car kits. I remember seeing some wood and resin kits but forgot where, I'll do some checking.
Bob
Thanks . see what you can find . I wouldn't mind some at $1.98. Did you notice the price tags on the cars I sent you.
Don :)
Yes, I did. Kinda like finding nickel candy bars.
Don, I found this on Ebay, don't know if they are used or what. One description said some parts were missing, might be just junk.
http://stores.ebay.com/Papas-Train-Depot_Stock-Cattle-Cars_W0QQfsubZ10446407QQfrsrcZ1
Bachmann shows 9 assorted in their catalog.
In the late 1960 time frame I was an Engineer on one of the last cattle trains run from Whites Ranch, Mile Post 37 on the the old G&I Branch of the G.C.&S.F.. This was located on the old branch to Galveston from Beaumont, Texas.
All the cars were A.T.S.F. 40 ft.
As far as cars in that time all the Southern Roads such as K.CS. , S.S.W., S.L.S.F, S.P., Katy all had stock cars in service as well as many of the Northern and Eastern Roads.
The cattle service was driven to trucks as the cost of having to rest the cattle and water them was to great and the railroads went outy of there way to get rid of them.
I can remember sitting by the tracks on spot waiting for other trains and watching for the cars of other roads. All kinds Central of Georgia, Nickle Plate, N.YC. Pennsy and on and on. The list of Roads and sizes shapes and so on were endless. Even the roads that had disappeared into history and other that had been swallowed up by Penn Central were still in service well into the 1970's. Many of the cars were the late 30s' and many more were 1940's era. The roads were represented long after they had died and the other roads took there equippment and did not bother to aggressivly repaint or renumber they just ran them into the ground getting all the service they could from them.
A person modeling in the 195-1960 time frame could use any equipment of the 1940-1950-1960 time and any road name and initials even of roads that did not exist and would not be inaccurate.
Redtail67
Back in the early days of shipping cattle by rail, the buyers wanted the cattle to arrive as fat as possible, not allowing any shrink. So the railroad had to stop at corrals along the way to feed and water them. Huge mistake. You do not stuff cattle full of water and hay then shove them into a stock car. They "slosh" around, get sick and sometimes get down, then are trampled.
Today, we ship by truck. The cows are fed and watered the night before shipping, then "dry loted". By morning they are all crapped out and in good shape. It takes a long time for the complete rumination of food through the multiple chambers of their stomach. They can do without water for long periods but they shrink a bit. Think of the long cattle drives from Texas up to Abilene in the 1800s. The cattle can be hauled hundreds of miles without food or water, and the trucks don't get as messy.
For beef calves averaging 600 pounds, they may be on the truck for 24 hours. They arrive in good shape, and quickly forget the mamas they left and head for the feed bunks. Any "shrink" is calculated in the buyer's bid price. We get paid by the pound the day they are shipped, we have our own scales.
With the price of fuel today, the railroads may have to start hauling livestock again, they just need to know the proper way to do it.
Some advice for drivers, never pull up beside a cattle truck with your convertible top down or the windows open, you might get painted green. Yup, seen it happen, too funny.
When the railraod hauled livestock. It was a long way to the packing plants. Many animals were lost. That is when the government stepped in and said you will rest livestock after so many hours. When you load a 40 car train it takes a long time. by the time car 40 is loaded, the livestock in car one had been there for some time. Trucks, you load one and send it on its way. you don't have to wait until all truck are loaded. Also the packing plants moved out of the big cities. Redtail67 may remember about how long it took.
It did take a long time, cattle were not cooperating with the process. We would laugh our u know whats off with some of the problems the cowboys had with stubborn cattle.
Even if the loading went well, when we got them to Beaumont, they were watered and unloaded. Then they were loaded after so many hours and would they would be on the "High Rail" flying to KC mostly. I think they were detrained once more in most cases sometimes 3 times if they had delays.
It cost the railroads a fortune extra road crews and then extra yard crews to load and unload. They could not wait to put them in the trucks.
Redtail67
The regs have more to do with the truck driver than the cattle. The driver has to take rest stops, but the cattle stay on the truck. You don't find corrals at a truck stop.
The livestock are wedged fairly tight in the truck so they can't lay down. They take short "naps" standing up.
Red, as you no doubt noted, there are "cowboys", then there are real Cowboys. Cows want to go the opposite way you want them to go. The trick is to make the cows think they are outsmarting you. In other words you have to be smarter than the cows.
Anyway, at last count I have 12 stock cars, where in the world am I going to put them all, on my 4 X 8 ? The living room is looking like a hobby shop, I'm on the verge of being "evicted" to the garage.
that may be a good thing, garages are bigger than 4 x 8. hint, hint hint ;D
Some Eastern roads with cattle cars: C&O, B&O, PRR, NYC.
Gene
I found some more: L&N, CNW, GN, CB&Q and NP. If you had one of every line, you could set up a great stockyard and packing plant.
Best steak house in the country is in St Joseph, Missouri. It's called "The Stockyards", right next door to a huge lot. I once had a 24 ounce Porterhouse you could cut with a fork. That was back in my "hollow leg" days.
How about Rod's Steak House in Williams, Arizona? It used to be that they served steak rare or medium rare. If you wanted a steak cooked more they pointed out the truck stop a mile or so down the road.
Gene
I used to know a guy, when the waiter asked how he wanted his steak, he said "Just cut off the tail and throw it on the plate". I got so sick of hearing that. First rule in cooking a steak, lots of fire to seal in the juices and cook it fast. Second rule, never turn a steak more than once. Forget the marinade, a little creole spice is all you need for seasoning.
I should have paid more attention to trains in my early travels. As the song goes, "I've been everywhere". Well, never made it to Florida. Did Florida have any railroads before CSX? I've seen cars lettered Fruit Grower's Express.
Atlantic Coast Line, Florida East Coast, Seaboard Airline, I think maybe Southern. Don't forget, Florida had the "railroad to the sea" - all the way to Key West until the hurricane took it out in the '30s.
Gene
There is also the Georgia and Florida which now works as a short line carrier. The original Georgia and Florida was leased to the Southern.
How far back to you want to go? In the modern era, the following operated in Florida:
Atlantic Coast Line
Seaboard Air Line
Southern Railway
Louisville & Nashville
Burlington Northern (ex. SL-SF)
Florida East Coast
South Georgia
Live Oak, Perry & Gulf
Apalachicola Northern
Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay
Some, like Southern and Burlington Northern just barely got into the Northern and Western parts of the State. Southern reached Jacksonville, Palatka and Madison, BN reached Pensacola. NS still reaches Jacksonville.
Quite a bit of trackage has been abandoned or spun off, mostly by CSXT. New operators are Florida Central, Florida Midland, Florida Northern (Pinsly roads), South Central Florida Express, and Seminole Gulf. The BN trackage is now the Alabama & Gulf Coast. Apalachicola Northern is now AN Railway, and ASAB is now The Bay Line Railroad, both Genessee & Wyoming companies.