I almost hate to post this message here, but given the pestering of the poor BachMAN on this site about the desire for a 4-4-0 in On30, I can post the news so we will leave him alone on this matter.
MMI, the die-cast division of PSC, has announced a 4-4-0 to be released in both On3 and On30. You can go to the web site for Southwest Narrow Gauge to see the exact details.
MMI will also be bringing in the Uintah/Sumpter Valley 2-6-6-2s in both On3 and On30.
With the arrival of these two locomotives, the Kentwood & Southern will only be lacking a Heisler, hint, hint, and its steam roster will be complete!
are you referring to the Southwest Narrow Gauge Yahoo group?
I don't see anything there at all, other a snippet about someone seeing something about 4-4-0's on PSC website...and I can't find any mention of On3/On30 4-4-0's at PSC's site either...
not that I doubt your word (I've heard similar rumors), but maybe you could post a link to where the additional info is?
Quote from: mmiller on March 05, 2007, 09:44:06 PM
are you referring to the Southwest Narrow Gauge Yahoo group?
I suspect this is the website ksvilis meant :
http://www.i-sng.com/On3/On3_Locomotives/Die_cast_loco/die_cast_loco.html (http://www.i-sng.com/On3/On3_Locomotives/Die_cast_loco/die_cast_loco.html)
See bottom of the page.
I have seen these locos mentioned on other sites as well.
Personally I am not interested in either of these and hope that Bachmann does not duplicate them.
Apart from a Heisler a three truck Shay in the 55-60 ton range, an A class Climax or a Maine 2-6-2 are my suggestions for Bachmann. A small 2-4-0 tender loco, which could probably be based on the Porter as prototype locos were as small as 7 tons, could also be a nice addition.
Hamish
.
Hamish
thanks a lot...
I guess I just had Yahoo stuck in my mind...
This isn't a surprise, really. There was an interview in the On30 Annual with the head honcho of MMI, and he mentioned a 4-4-0 there. MMI does nice work, but their 4-4-0 will probably cost 2-3 times more than a Bachmann version. I just don't think I can get this past the C.P.R.R. accounting department.
Me neither - head accountant has just done her nut after totting up my 0n30 purchases since christmas!
I did look at the prices and even at the special offer price, I think it would go down like a lead balloon - Me -'Honey, it's under $400' ( that's around £220 with customs and shipping on top ) Her indoors - 'Sweety, that's a nice weekend in Paris!"
Bachmann and MMI probably compete for a slightly different market. I probably won't get a 4-4-0, as much as I want one, but have to have a 2-6-6-2 - this will be the only truly BIG POWER on my railroad.
My favorite type of locomotives, narrow gauge or standard, are the big articulated locomotives. I am willing to pay for one of these - it will be the "showcase" locomotive on the lay-out. I am also willing to bet that since it is die-cast, it will be heavy and will be able to pull every piece of rolling stock I own.
Again, MMI probably gets more of the "brass oriented" modeler as their stuff is well detailed - it is just that the price of brass had become unaffordable. Die-cast allows for nearly as detailed locomotives at a reasonable price - compared to that of the same locomotive in brass.
I hate to burst everyones bubble but I went to www.precisionscaleco.com and looked up the 4-4-0. It is listed in the HOn3 group and not the On3/On30. Unless I am mistaken this engine is not O but HO scale ???
I did not find any listing for the 2-6-6-2 but that does not mean it is not coming.
SWNG lists both these engines at www.i-sng.com in On3 and On30, I will wait and see before getting excited.
Ken
The announcement is here, and it is On30 (and On3):
http://www.railcar.com.au/mountain%20model%20imports.htm
Steve
Bachmann isn't the first on this On30 item, But I'll still wait for theirs at 1/4 the price. My Spectrum Moguls and trolley have great plenty of detailing for my taste. BACHMANN ALL THE WAY!!!
Barry
I agree. MMI still has my K27 and can't figure out why the sound doesn't work (it ran for two feet on my test track a year ago). I am a little put off by MMI but will consider the 4-4-0 but will gladly wait another year or two if Bachmann just hints that they will produce one instead.
The only thing I worry about here is that if MMI builds a 4-4-0, Bachmann might delay their own 4-4-0, thinking that the market is diminished. I'm no expert in this market, but I would think that any On3/On30 guy who would be willing to spend $400 on an MMI 4-4-0, would be more than willing to purchase another, slightly different 4-4-0 from Bachmann, if the price were in the $120-150 range.
I agree,
Since I buy engines in 2's I would gladly pay $300~$400 for 2 4-4-0's if they are detailed and run like the B-mann 2-8-0's.
I do like the size and looks of the Rio Grand 4-4-0's but that extra $400 would buy a lot of steel hoppers that my RR is short of ;D.
Ken
for me it will depend on what Bachmann uses as a prototype for their hoped for On30 4-4-0...
if it's a uncommon "export-ish" or obscure prototype loco, I'd probably have to start mowing laws or something to make the extra cash needed for MMI's North American standard 4-4-0 :-[
I would like to see the On30 4-4-0 use the same prototype as the LS 4-4-0. I'm not sure if the prototype is the Eureka, or some catalog loco, but the lines are great. Presumably the drawings are already done, and "just" need to be re-engineered for 1:48. And wouldn't the Eureka look great in On30, even if we had to pay extra for the paint scheme.
Still, as pretty as a 4-4-0 would be, it wouldn't look good on 18" curves.
To me the real issue for a 4-4-0 is the mechanism and body. It will get converted and redetailed to what I want it to look like. I would probably wind up with two - one as a cabbage stacked wood burner and the other as a straight stack oil burner. Thus, I would wait for a less expensive one from Bachmann.
The 2-6-6-2 though, I will obtain from MMI. The Sumpter Valley 2-6-6-2s are my all time favorite big narrow gauge power. It will be my one piece of superpower and given its size and weight, as a die-cast locomotive, it will probably pull every piece of rolling stock I have.
Add a Heisler to the roster and no more locomotives.
Epeorus,
You may wait a long time for MMI to get that piece of crap sound system to work. I have two of the MMI K27s and could not get the sound to work on either of them. Funny thing, if MMI had offered those engines at the same price without the sound, they would still have been a steal. The workmanship, detailing, painting, and performance are just great!
Now, it depends on what you are doing in modeling in the On30 scale. I use it as a cheap man's On3. I am building an On30 railroad where the mainline radius is either 30 or 28 inch. Only in the mine area and one potential other area will the minimum radius be under 28, and I will not be running the Ks there, even though I can.
I had my local train store rip out the factory installed "sound" system and replace it with two decoders and speakers. A controlling decoder is mounted up in the boiler and a Soundtraxx decoder and two speakers are in the tender. This installation allows the number of wires between the engine and tender to be reduced to two. This in turn allows the engine to take a much tighter radius than the advertised 26 inch. In fact, I have run my Ks around a 20 inch radius although they had to creep around and really looked terrible on such a tight radius. I would love to put in Tsunamis but that brings back more than two wires between the engine and tender, so I will go with what is in there now.
While I rave about my Ks, I will be the first to acknowledge that the Bachmann 2-8-0s have spoiled me. The only way I would buy another engine in On30 the size of the K27 is if someone does an EBT mike. I would LOVE to see Bachmann do a 2-6-2 or a ten wheeler.
Bob Rule, Jr.
Hatboro, Pa.
GATSME MRRC(www.gatsme.org)
Narrow Gauge Chairman
Yeah,
I would love to see the SR #24ish OF 2-6-2 or a ten wheeler with not too small a driver size 8)
Ken
Good Evening All,
I have an interesting follow up to my reply earlier today. I was working at my local train store, where my MMI K27s were worked on. The guy who did the installations, who normally only works on Fridays was in the store and I was telling him about this thread. He told me that in the past three weeks or so, he installed a Tsunami decoder in a MMI K27 and the whole thing, save the speaker fit in the boiler. When finished, there was only four wires running to the tender. Two for motor pickup and two for the speaker.
Bob Rule, Jr.
Hatboro, Pa.
GATSME MRRC
Narrow Gauge Chairman
IRCA engines # 250 & 251, gotta love them, may have to take a serious
look at getting a couple of the 2-6-6-2s, the 4-4-0 is of no interest, not
even close to a 2½ft gauge 4-4-0.
Ken
GWN
Bachmann could easily get a 4-4-0 designed and built before we ever see the MMI model. MMI can get a model done about every 6-8 months at best and they still have C-19's, C-18's, C-17's, C-21's, K-36's, K-37's, and 0-6-0's to build. I estimate it to be a minimum of 4 years before we see 4-4-0's or 2-6-6-2's. You guys will have plenty of time to save up for these models or wait for Bachmann to do one.
BTW, MSRP for these models is about $500 for the 4-4-0 and $695 for the mallets
I read somewhere that MMI does not necessarily build things in the order they are announced. If they sense a demand for the 4-4-0, for example, it might get bumped up the list.
Still, I think I prefer Bachmann's new approach, announcing a few months in advance. It keeps the anticipation to a reasonable level! My guess is that in late summer we will hear about the next major On30 loco, if they are planning to ship it at the typical pre-Christmas timeslot. There is a probably a pilot model of something On30 running around the Bachmann factory even now.
Hey all, Why wait for what you want/need? I have a Riv. HO 4-8-8-4 that is partially rebuilt as On30. It runs good on 18" curves (needed some slight work on lead and trailing trks.). I am currently 'fixin' to dcc/sound install. Will post pix later. Jim
jim
Have 2 4-6-0s and 2 2-10-2s in the backshop awaiting detail parts
for conversion to On2½ ft gauge based on engines in Brazil.
The Rio turbio 2-10-2s are being restored to service 2 at present with
plans for a few more to be rebuilt.
The 4-6-0s IS frame, once operated on the VFOM which is now a tourist operation, at one time operated 400+ miles of 2½ft.
Ken C
GWN
Like many others, I'm waiting for the Bachmann 4-4-0. I am overjoyed to hear that MMI is coming out with a 2-6-6-2. I am now seriously contemplating dumping my plans of purchasing a Model Power (Ex-Mantua) 2-6-6-2, the Tsunami chip, the Backwoods Minitures 2-6-6-2 modification kit, and the slope-back tender and trucks...the combination of which would most likely be eerily close to the MSRP of the MMI RTR unit. Also, when the MMI version finally showed up, my Mantua/Model Power version would probably still be on the workbench, if started at all.
I just reserved a black and graphite version of the MMI Class 42 4-4-0 from Southwest Narrow Gauge. If Bachmann ever decides to make one I'll just buy one of theirs also and have two different 4-4-0s to run. IMO, the MMI 4-4-0 at $399 is pretty good considering the amount of detail on their models...plus I DID come to On30 from 3-rail O scale, so $399 for an accurately scaled, highly detailed 4-4-0 looks REALLY good!!! ;)
That "new" Roundhouse Trains 4-4-0 looks like it would be an ideal basis for an On30 4-4-0. It is reviewed in this month's Model Railroad News.
Quote from: peterherron on April 11, 2007, 03:32:49 PM
That "new" Roundhouse Trains 4-4-0 looks like it would be an ideal basis for an On30 4-4-0. It is reviewed in this month's Model Railroad News.
I've done an On30 4-4-0 w/ one of the Roundhouse locos. It turned out OK, but I want an off-the-shelf, factory-made 4-4-0 too.
Quote from: epeorus on March 08, 2007, 08:55:17 AM
I agree. MMI still has my K27 and can't figure out why the sound doesn't work (it ran for two feet on my test track a year ago). I am a little put off by MMI but will consider the 4-4-0 but will gladly wait another year or two if Bachmann just hints that they will produce one instead.
I have some MMI, well everything they've made- they're pretty amazing locomotives. But most everyone I know has scrapped the sound on the first (outside valve) run. Even when it worked, it was awful. I certainly wouldn't let my engine sit somewhere in hopes that that awful sound system might miraculously become worthwhile. My advice(for PSC): Fix the lights, send it back! I think it was a case of wnting to do too much. Anyway, 6 months later, Tsunami was the gold standard for sound, anyway.
In my opinion, Bachmann and MMI are compeating on two different levels of the On30 market. While it is true that Bachmann gives you good value for your money, MMI does also! I have two BLI locomotives, about eight Bachmann locomotives and one MMI K27. In quality and performance, the K27 is on a much higher level than the others and at $400.00 it too is a lot of bang for your buck.
There are currently several retailers taking pre-orders for the On30 MMI Uintah and Sumpter Valley, for a price comparable to an HOn3 model. Let Bachmann concentrate on the smaller stuff. How about a 2-8-2T, 4-6-0, 4-4-0 and a Heisler?????? Oh, and don't forget about the new lower profile freight car chassis?
The MMI loco will follow the Baldwin 8-18C catalog engine, which was a very common engine. I believe the Eureka is one of this class. They were available with 42 or 45 inch drivers. I believe the Rio Grande Class 38's had the smaller drivers. I agree that Bachmann should not duplicate this engine. I would also say that despite its "small" size, it is still a fairly large loco by current On30 standards. If Bachmann wants a 4-4-0 that fits in better to its line, I would suggest the Mt. Gretna 2-foot gauge locos. They would widen out to On30 very nicely, and plans are available in the MR Cyclopedia.
PLEASE!!!! Don't forget the ten-wheeler! Do ya'll think it might look like the RGS#20 or the ET&WNC#12. Lets hope for the #12 ;).
Well you got the 4-6-0. I have heard that the 4-4-0 will be made when they get 400 pre-orders. I believe that they have from 320 to 350 right now.
If you guys can afford it the MMI 4-4-0 will be the most beautiful engine made in On30. shame Bachmann did not respond to the call.
Royce Wilson
What am I missing here?
Bachmann is already selling 4-4-0's, were MMI is still listed as coming soon.
Bruce
Quote from: az2rail on October 09, 2008, 08:27:02 PM
What am I missing here?
Bachmann is already selling 4-4-0's, were MMI is still listed as coming soon.
Bruce
I think he is saying that Bachmann should have made a D&RGW or at least larger one.Which I agree with.
While the old Bachmann 4-4-0, the new Bachmann 4-4-0 and the proposed MMI 4-4-0 all share a common wheel arrangement, they are very different locomotives. Comparison photos would make it obvious.
Manager
Thanks. Figured it would be something simple as that, but thought I'd ask anyway.
Bruce
The only thing that the two Bachmann 4-4-0's have in common with the MMI 4-4-0 is the wheel arangement.
the MMI 4-4-0 is a model of the common Baldwin 4-4-0 produced for narrow gauge railroads, not just the Rio Grande.
The Bachmann engines are models of industrial engines that are either too small to haul freight or a exported industrial engine that only ran in Brazil.
I have purchased two of the Bachmann 4-4-0's to use on my 1880 Colorado Central type operation. this engine probably could handle 4 to 5 20 foot cars like the original C.C.R.R. 0-4-0 Souther locomotives.
Royce Wilson ;D
Quote from: Royce Wilson on October 10, 2008, 07:31:39 PM
The only thing that the two Bachmann 4-4-0's have in common with the MMI 4-4-0 is the wheel arangement.
the MMI 4-4-0 is a model of the common Baldwin 4-4-0 produced for narrow gauge railroads, not just the Rio Grande.
The Bachmann engines are models of industrial engines that are either too small to haul freight or a exported industrial engine that only ran in Brazil.
Royce Wilson ;D
Not quite accurate - the locos in Brazil were common carrier locos, not industrial locos. Also I am fairly sure that similar locos ran elsewhere - the Brazillian locos are well known because they survived - these were Baldwin catalogue locos and I know small Baldwin 4-4-0s went to other countries, how close to the Bachmann models I do not know. In many countries very small, by American standards, locos operated narrow gauge lines.
Hamish