Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => On30 => Topic started by: Frisco on July 27, 2008, 01:21:18 PM



Title: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Frisco on July 27, 2008, 01:21:18 PM
Is it possible that some one could post photo's of the Bachmann forney and a DSP&P mason buggie at a simmilar angle. I would like to maby convert one. I do not need a perfect match just want the general look.


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: japasha on July 27, 2008, 04:58:56 PM
Frisco,

While I like the idea of buildign a Mason Bogie locomotive, it is a complex project due to the pivot under the boiler.

You might want to look into the 2-4-4 Forney used at Cripple Creek by the F&CC railroads. It was used for commuting miners to get to their respective mines. It is virtually identical to the Bachmann On30 Forney. It was sold to the Pajaro Valley Southern near Watsonville, Ca after use on the F&CC. There are many pictures of it in the various F&CC books


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Frisco on July 28, 2008, 06:16:45 PM
Thanks, I did a search and joined the Cripple Creek Railroads and Mines Yahoo group.  I could not find any pictures though or books.


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: japasha on July 28, 2008, 10:08:31 PM
The locomotive is F&CC #51. It is shown in Rails Around Gold Hill, page 401 It was origianlly a 0-4-4 configuration when delivered but quickly modified to be a 2-4-4.



Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: scottychaos on July 28, 2008, 10:51:07 PM
Sorry Frisco,
but a bachman forney and a DSP&P Mason Bogie have NOTHING in common..
and I mean nothing..there is not one single part on the forney that would be useful for a mason bogie.

ok..maybe the boiler..but thats it..every other detail is very different.
it would be easier to just scratchbuild the whole thing.

(http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/On2-SRRL9/Forney001.jpg)

(http://www.frontiernet.net/~scottychaos/ON_LINE/Masonbogiedelton55.jpg)

Scot


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: scottychaos on July 28, 2008, 11:03:25 PM
but taking the DSP&P 2-6-6T Mason Bogies out of the equation,
there were 0-4-4T Mason Bogies that would be a lot closer!
not quite as famous or distinctive as the DSP&P 2-6-6T bogies, but it might be somewhat remotely doable to turn a Bachman forney into a 0-4-4T Mason:

http://www.ironhorse129.com/Prototype/MasonBogie/Graphics/MB_Stockton.jpg


just need a new cab, new tank, new tender truck, new domes, new pilot, new bell..
the boiler and drivers could maybe be used..but thats about it.

still a long shot! and not worth the effort IMO..but its a lot more doable than the "classic" 2-6-6T Mason Bogie.

im sure someone will come out with an On30 Mason Bogie eventually..
its inevitable..I would just wait.

All things Mason Bogie:
http://www.ironhorse129.com/Prototype/MasonBogie/Mason_Bogie.htm

Scot


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Frisco on July 29, 2008, 01:58:57 PM
Thanks, I must agre that the Forney would not come close to working. Hopefully "SOME-ONE" will come out with one soon.


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Royce Wilson on July 29, 2008, 04:12:36 PM
Sure wish Bachmann had one in production :-[


                                                           Royce Wilson


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Royce Wilson on August 02, 2008, 08:07:34 AM
My understanding is that DSP&P 75 "the Dinky"" was just thought to be a Mason and possibly could have been of another origin?


                                                                      Royce Wilson


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: japasha on August 02, 2008, 12:15:18 PM
According to the Mac Poor book on the DSP&P, there was no #75 in the original numbering nor in subsquent numberings until the C&S was formed.

Many of the DSP&P masons went to the Utah Northern. Most were scrapped by 1900. The wheel arrangements were 2-6-6T or 2-8-6T

Both are interesting, complex machines


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: mmiller on August 02, 2008, 02:35:35 PM
please forgive the cell phone picture of a book  :-[ but here is the Golden Circle (F&CC) 51 

(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/mransr/messageboards/GC51.jpg)
(from the Colorado Rail Annual No.13)

it was later converted to a 2-4-4, but to my eye it doesn't look much like the Bachmann Forney at all :shrug:


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Frisco on August 02, 2008, 03:14:30 PM
Thanks, I think the main thing that would have to be changed would be the headlight. Then the problem comes up of the Bachmann IF Forney comming with a wood cab instead of that ones steel. Also it appears but I am not sure that there is a head light on the back of the cab.


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Charlie Mutschler on August 02, 2008, 04:52:52 PM
Again, I think the problems that would be encountered trying to convert the Bachmann inside frame Forney into Golden Circle / F&CC 51 would be rather significant.  Different wheel size, wheel base, engine weight.  After all, the Bachmann Forneys are generally based on two foot gauge locomotives built for the Sandy River & Rangely Lakes, which were smaller than the one built for the three foot gauge Golden Circle.  But, it's worth taking a look at it. 

While there seems to be a lot of comment about a Mason Bogie, it seems to be a complicated prototype, more so when one considers the need to get it around the curves most of us have on our model railroads - and I am presuming it would be a 22 or 24 inch radius curve, not the 15 popular with the train set crowd.  The engine is a bogie - a truck - that swivels under the boiler, while the valve gear reaches over the top of the boiler.  How much compromise is possible without looking toy-like would be an issue there, I suspect.  Still,who knows what the Bachmann design team may be working on?  They did a nice job of keeping the ET&WNC ten wheeler under wraps. 

Still, if DSP&P is one's interest, get an armload of the moguls.  They are a good starting point for some of the early DSP&P power.  Royce Wilson has done a beautiful job with his.  Yes, the C&S air tanks on the boiler went, and so did the steel cab.  But you've got a good place to begin. 

Happy modifications.
Charlie Mutschler
-30-


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Royce Wilson on August 02, 2008, 05:40:38 PM
Colorado Rail annual 12, The South Park has a roster list on page 253.

It list engine number 75 (original DSP&P)make unk,wheel arrang unk.. reported as "dinky engine" rebuilt at Omaha shops for South Park R R early 1883; presumably light used engine utilzed briefy as switcher.

Colorado Rail annual 15, Utah & Northern  locomotive roster list their engine number 45 as a 0-4-2T Mason   Orig. AmericanFork R R #1 sold 1873 rebuilt from 0-4-4T to 0-4-2T. editor notes that this engine was the first Mason Forney-type constructed built to 3 foot gauge in 1871 on speculation;sold in April 1872 to the American Fork R R (and named the Onward) after being converted to 3 foot 2 inch gauge and further modified,beingshipped in July 1872. Found unsatisfactory,a Porter 0-6-0 was obtained as replacement and the Mason was taken out of service(perhaps as early as 1873); It was said to have been stored at Sandy,Utah,for some time. At some point it found its way into the UP system and was further rebuilt(into 3 foot gauge 0-4-2T). this may be the same "dinky" as a switch engine briefly in 1883-84 on the South Park, before its appearance in 1885 on the Utah & Northern.

It is interesting to note that the book" South Park "does not list engine number 75 ,even though the author is the same as the Colo Rail Anul. 12.

My point was that there was so little known about this little "dinky" why not just use a Bachmann Forney and letter it as DSP&P 75 ? ::)


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Royce Wilson on August 02, 2008, 05:45:32 PM
Thanks Charlie!!!!    I am still working on Bachmann moguls after all these years!

I have been delayed lately with a On3 model of the RGS plow flanger 02.

                                                                    Royce Wilson


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Frisco on August 02, 2008, 05:49:49 PM
Could you post pictures of the 2-6-0.


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Royce Wilson on August 02, 2008, 07:28:43 PM
I will try, last time I tried to post a photo to this group it di not work.
 ::)
working on some early turn of century C&S engines with the pancake stacks now.
C&S #13 circa 1903 looks great with that intertwined C&S on the cab and short smoke box and pancake stack with the boiler top air tank.
                                                             Royce Wilson









Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Frisco on August 28, 2008, 07:51:17 PM
Could some-one recomend a book on the DSP&P I think some-one has one in print right know but I can't remember. ???


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: kc trucking on August 29, 2008, 04:14:22 AM
Howdy  Just lock the rivet counters out of the train room and go for it, shes a ringer for a bman forney and  you will do fine young man. Model life, not rivets........


Title: Re: Forney for DSP&P
Post by: Royce Wilson on August 29, 2008, 12:51:00 PM
If you just want a book on the south park pick up a copy of Mallory Hope Ferrells "South Park"  there is also a couple of Yahoo groups for you to join.

the most fasinating book to have been printed to date is the "Colorado Central"


                                                                             Royce Wilson