Many modelers, including myself, use a credit card to pay for internet purchases of trains, so I consider this to be on topic. I have recently encountered problems with card billing companies (banks) . This may or may not be associated with recent banking problems. Therefore I offer several cautions and solutions.
1. Billing companies are required to mail statements not later than the 26th of the month. Recently we have not been receiving statements until the 8th or 9th of the next month, with payment due by the 10th, so it is impossible to get the payment to the company on time.
2. There is no postmark date on the envelope, so we have no proof that statement was mailed late by the company. I called the card company and was told they have no control over the mail, since the statement comes from a separate billing company (holding bank).
3. The last statement we were charged $39.00 late fee plus interest, even though the balance was less then $80.00. Apparently this exorbitant fee is allowed by law. We always pay the full balance each month so we never owe, nor have we ever paid, any interest. It is my suspicion that some banks might be deliberately sending statements late to justify the late fee, or simply have too many accounts to meet their deadline. Those with high unpaid balances probably don't even notice the added fee.
4. For security reasons, we have requested that the complete card number not be shown on statement. All companies we buy from enter only the last 4 numbers, such as XXXX XXXX XXXX 9999. The card company has refused to do likewise. Credit card theft is rampant, anyone intercepting your statement has your card number. Never discard your statement in the trash without shredding your card number.
5. If your card company calls, offering theft protection at $9.95 a month, beware. You will be charged the fee and never receive the protective software they promise to send you. The software is claimed to encrypt your keyboard strokes.
6. Don't be mislead by "Secure Site" encryption. There are subtle spywares that can reside on your computer, that are virtually undetected by so called "Spyware Protection Programs". This spyware will detect your keystrokes and grab your card number. I only give my card information on the phone to select companies and individuals I trust, never online. No, I don't have "PayPal" and want no part of it.
7. If you repeatedly receive statements late, or are being charged unwarranted extra fees, call the Comptroller of the Currency in Houston, Texas. They take any complaint very seriously, and will immediately send you a complaint form. I sent in a complaint regarding one bank's billing practices, and the Comptroller is investigating the matter.
Also, if you receive an email (or phone recording) from an unknown and phoney (probably overseas) company offering huge discounts on trains, with a supposedly toll free number, usually with a 908, 808 or some other weird number, don't call it. You might get a phone bill for $25,000.00. It's perfectly legal and you have to pay the bill.
I only use a debit card from my local bank for all online purchases. The card works on the road when I go to Florida. I gave up on credit cards eight years ago. I watch my checking/debit account online every day.. May be a solution for some people.
Probably not a solution for most people, but I use a Linux operating system. Very secure. Firewall on the router/modem. Email has virus check and I delete any I do not recognize. I treat ALL email as suspicious. Most spam goes right into the bulk folder and gets deleted automatically.
The Internet is the Wild Wild West. Many people are clueless about the 'Net and the possible pitfalls.
Rich
Bob,
Call the card company & request credit for the late fee. They may refund/credit it.
Also - don't forget the phishing scams - Dear XXXBank (or credit card) Customer - your account is compromised & we need you to click on this link to verify information. Seems like I get one of these every week along with "barrister" Joe Umgamamamama who has 35 million dollars to split with me. As Rich said, hit the delete button.
Jay
who is still waiting for my 3.5 milliion dollar payoff from a French - or was it British - lottery. I know I won because I received an email from the administrator of the lottery ;D ;D
Jay
I did call the card company and got a credit for the late fee, but this is happening more often and I get tired of calling them. This time I'll let the Comproller handle it.
You can now buy debit cards right in the grocery store. It's like a money order, you pay for a set amount in order to make a purchase. If someone else tries to use the number, it will be rejected for insufficient funds. If there is a little left over on the card, just redeem it for cash.
I get a few phishing mails, they want you to visit a site and type in your bank account number for verification with their records. Some people actually do it!
Hopefully the information provided by Bob, Rich & myself will help the "younger folk" avoid the hassles. There are many "newbies" on this board - many who probably have never heard of some scams. Obviously some people fall for them - especially the "PayPal account blocked/illegial useage" one.
If you suspect Internet crime contact your local law enforcement, or the FBI.
http://www.fbi.gov/cyberinvest/cyberhome.htm
; )
Thanks for supporting and commenting on this thread. I hesitated to post it, but hoped to save others from problems. The scams do not discriminate, many elderly people are often easy prey.
Also remember there are "spiders" that crawl the net looking for the "@" sign. If you need to advise a member of your email address, write it in your post with a little twist, such as: bob/member/server.net Knowledgeable members can decipher the address, the spider probably won't. Edit to remove the string once contact is established.
I use a credit card online quite frequently. But only with companies I know and trust. For companies/individuals that I do not know, I use PayPal.
I have heard all the horror stories about PayPal freezing bank accounts and credit cards. But there are two tricks for dealing with PayPal. Pay them from a separate credit card account, one not linked to your regular credit card. If you are not a seller, do NOT link your PayPal account to your bank account. If you ARE a seller, for example on eBay, set up a second, independent bank account, preferably in a different bank, just to use with PayPal. At that point, you might as well have your online credit card through that second bank as well. The second trick is to keep a low, locked limit on you online credit card to limit the damage if someone hijacks it. And keep a low balance in your bank account that is linked to PayPal so that if they do freeze it, you are not suddenly cut off from all, or even the majority, of your funds.
The banks have begun a new "game". With some, if you don't maintain what they consider a minimum balance, say $1500.00, they charge you a penalty fee each month and pay no interest.
I called my primary suppliers, they will accept the "debit cards" that you can buy at any grocery or convenience store. If you anticipate a purchase, I would think you could charge the PayPal to the debit card.
This new concept of "pay before you charge" would keep people out of trouble.
Jim.....I swear you are reading my mind. My wife and I use those very same tips to ensure our online transactions remain positive. I did a lot of selling on eBay over the years and never once had trouble. I even had a Paypal debit card until we moved back from the US. I used to transfer funds from the "online" account into paypal and back, and even a few times had paypal just cut a check and mail it.
Here's one for you.....I called Trainworld a while back to try and place an order. They tell me, for some reason, that all first time orders from Canada need a copy of the credit card....front and back....to be sent along with the first order. Like that's gonna happen. Micro-mark gets my business.
People need to educate themselves before venturing into online transactions. But a properly secured machine and a few behind the scenes things like the seperate card and account, and you should never have troubles buying online.
Sid
One rule to go by isif some one calls you or emails you asking for information. Just hang up or delete. No bank or credit card company will ask for this information from you by phone or email.
One Ebay "power seller" no longer gets my business since they wouldn't accept my credit card over the phone or online, only PayPal. I had to send a check and wait 2 weeks for the check to clear and another week for delivery. I also don't like the fact that they won't refund or replace an out of the box defective Bachmann loco.
This may be off topic, but I now buy from only 2 companies, mostly from Caboose Hobbies.
Now don't laugh, I actually visited one store that wouldn't accept cash. They said for security reasons and pilferage they couldn't keep cash on hand to make change. Figure that!
Hate to tell you this, but starting the first of the year, the only payment method that will be accepted by e-bay will be paypal. Care to guess who owns paypal?
On the subject of phishing. The best rule I have is to check to see if it was accually sent to you, or is the TO spot blank. Another is, is it realy a financal institution that you do business with. Last, don't use the e-mail to link with. If you think there may be a problem, log onto the company's web page. When you log on, you will generaly be told if there is a problem.
Bruce
Anyone considering PayPal should read this entire document.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal
Stores either accept my preferred payment method or lose my business.
I do my banking, all of it, on line. The only time I've had a problem is with paypal, but that got solved. I don't receive statements or bills, it's all on line. I pay my bills on line and if I need statements I can get then on line and that is absolutely trouble free. If I need anything, I order it on line. Much cheaper, safer and faster. If Bob causes me problems on line, I handle it on line, usually just by ignoring him. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Go to bed online. >:( >:(
I don't think it is safe to bank online. I never wanted a debit card, because I thought it was a direct line to empty my bank account. A credit card protects my bank account because they pay the seller & I pay the credit card company. If I have a dispute with a seller, my credit card company helps. I think of PayPal as a protection from giving my credit card number to every Tom, Dick & Harry on eBay, & I have PayPal-credit card company-me between my bank account & sellers who are not well-known, reputable companies.
So far, during a 1 1/2 years of use, I've had no problem with PayPal. I once had a late payment on the credit card, resulting in interest & a late payment fee. The bill was either didn't reach us, or we misplaced it. After what I've read here, I'll be checking the date due on our credit card statements from now on.
My wife and I have a number of credit cards, all used like cash and paid in full each month. And, they all have different closing dates and due dates. Never heard of them all being the same time each month? Some have longer grace periods, some shorter, but they are all well known large providers and we have seldom if ever had any problems.
I use paypal for ebay and have a seperate checking account just for that and have a paypal credit card.
I use my credit cards on line but only with known companies. I do no "banking" online. With many compaines I prefer to place my orders by phone if they offer that service.
No problems yet, no interest or late fees paid, no lost or stollen credit info,
Sheldon
Quote from: Yampa Bob on September 29, 2008, 01:06:08 AM
Anyone considering PayPal should read this entire document.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal
Good advice but hardly reason for not using PayPal. PayPal is obviously still having some problems laying a new path through the mine fields of finance. The laws to guide their way are still being written, as so often happens with new businesses that don't quite fit the moulds of existing businesses. The fact that PayPal was taken over by eBay is actually to the consumers' advantage. The owners of eBay don't want to lose their golden egg by having PayPal turn into a rotten egg. If their being overly cautious leads to too many frozen bank accounts then the eBay business will start to suffer.
Personally, I have no problem with a relatively new financial business being cautious, even overly cautious. Look where the lack of caution got the old, experienced financial institutions. A problem with PayPal could, at most, set me back a couple of hundred dollars. But this sub-prime debacle looks to cost every man, woman and child in the US more than a couple of thousand dollars each.
Here is another scam that is being widely circulated by mail.
You will probably receive a letter that states:
"Computer tapes containing your personal information were lost while being transferred to an off-site storage facility by our archive services vendor."
It's bunk. The letter goes on to say that the only way to find out what records were lost is to visit a web site and enter a "unique single-use activation code" which is listed in the letter. You are actually enrolling in another "Free Credit Report" plan.
The firm is legitimate, listing the Federal Trade Commission and the 3 national credit reporting companies. I called the FTC to complain about the scare tactics used, they said they were aware of these letters but could do nothing about them. In fact, the representative was no help and was rather rude on the phone.
There are companies, advertising their "identity protection" plans on TV and in letters, that are getting rich off of identity theft. It's pretty sad when firms make money off criminal actions, and the misfortunes of others.
I have filed an official complaint regarding these letters, and have also contacted my Congressman. Please do the same if you get the letter, but DO NOT visit the given site or enter the activation code. Keep the letter for evidence.
As a follow up on this, I received a letter from the Comptroller of the Currency in Texas, who investigates complaints. They contacted the billing bank in California, the bank later wrote me stating they would not consider any of my suggestions, including adding a postmark on the envelope. They claimed all statements are sent on the 25th, but didn't reach us until the following 9th and the due date is the 10th or they add a $40 late charge. Give me a break.
The final straw was when they told me that if the balance is paid in full each month, they only allow a 15 day grace period. If you make a partial payment they allow a 20 day grace period.
I destroyed the one card I had, and now have a debit card from our local bank. No monthly statements, no delays or late charges, a pin number known only to us, and if the card is lost or stolen, we are not responsible for one cent of illegal use of the card. The bank assumes any and all losses.
Credit cards have been the financial ruination of many families. My advice is, cut them all up and get a bank debit card. I call it "a bank in my wallet".