As most of you know there were shenanigans in California involving the collision of a Commuter Train and a Freight Train, and the death of many people. The engineer is at fault for choosing to send a text message to railfan Nick Williams, who is in no way responsible. Yesterday, an 18 year old, put information on his MySpace Page telling of how he was given the chance to run a Metra Commuter Train. Because of these two events, the railroads have been cracking down, and enforcing new rules on Trainmen. Many railroad Employee's-Engineers, Freight Railroad Conductors, Passenger Conductors- across the United States have lost many privileges. On Massachusetts Bay Commuter Railroad, conductors can no longer use cell phones, laptops, or even calculators. All cell phones have to be turned off even if the train is not in motion, or they are laying over. And you can forget about cab rides. After 3 engineers in Chicago got suspended for letting a kid run a Commuter Train, why would any employee risk their career in place of a foamer. So all you Teenage Railfans out there- Just Think. "If someone finds this they could get in trouble."
Thank You. Now I begin a 3 year wait until things calm down enough for cab rides to be offered.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/10/chicago-enginee.html
Very good, GG. This should be for everyone not just teenagers. I was given a cab ride when I was going into Boston on a budd car. Wakefield to north Station. At the time I thought it was pretty cool. Three crewmen new about it, conductor, fireman and engineer. It wasn't so cool after I got a close look of a budd car that hit a truck.
Many years ago I used to travel from Winnipeg Man. to Armstrong Ont. in the cab of the second loco . Great way to travel ; no agencies involved.
Don
They should not let any-one that has not been trained drive the train, but I think they should let it be the crews decision if they let railfans into the cab. I have never got a cab ride on the mainline but think that it would be very cool. It seems like a classic case of a few ruine it for every-one.
When I was ten I was allowed to take the throttle of an LIRR H10s 2-8-0 on a work train. Not only that, but the engineer got out and climbed up on a bridge girder over Wantagh State Parkway and took a photo with my box brownie. BTW, the fireman stood right behind me to make sure I didn't do anything. 8)
That would be really great. To bad they don't run steamers any more.
When a disaster happens, someone always wants to take the credit to get attention. I would suggest submitting "Nick Williams" to a lie detector test. I find it hard to believe that a responsible Metro engineer would be so ignorant as to text a message to a "railfan" while operating the train.
Since the accident, hundreds of new web sites have appeared, all attorneys urging people to sue. One sick person even suggested on the net that the engineer was a pedophile, having an illegal affair with a minor.
This is the stuff that makes for rumors. The statement "The engineer is at fault" is without proof at this point.
We'll have to wait for the NTSB report before we should make any remarks :-X
Bob, NTSB pulled the phone records, and found he sent a text message to Nick at 4:22:01, about time the engineer would have past the restricting signal, and UP stated the collision occured at 4:22:23. That sure sounds to me like a viable explanation...
There is always a chance of "operator error", but as a defense attorney I could make a good case with the word "about", and the arbitrary time factor, 22 seconds is cutting it pretty slim. I'm not justifying the engineer's (alleged) action, but he could have already "past" the restricting signal, if in fact the signal was even functional.
In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty, beyond any reasonable doubt. If there is a reasonable doubt, the man is (was) innocent. Of course, if there was a law against stupidity, the courts couldn't handle the case load.
Many adults are careless (make that "stupid") using cell phones. Every day I see people driving down the street or highway talking on their phone. It is illegal, and such drivers should have their license suspended for a time, along with a stiff fine. I am happy to say I have not seen a single teenager using a phone while driving. So teenagers of the world, you deserve a huge gold star, now try to educate your parents.
Parents' biggest fault these days is teaching by words, not example. You know.... "Do as I say, not as I do".
Bob, I am glad you don't see teenagers talking on their cell phones. Unfortunately, what you also don't see is them texting like mad with their cell phones down at stomach level, out of your sight.
On the other hand, I suspect the average teenager texting is no more dangerous than the average adult talking on their cell phones. Unfortunately, they are probably not much less dangerous either.
I am glad to read that using a cell phone while driving is illegal in your part of the world - I wish it was in mine.
As far as the driver of a commuter train texting or talking on a cell phone while in control of a train, perhaps it is another indication that it is time to start running trains like we run elevators - no driver at all. This is already being successfully done on LRT.
And don't forget every model railroad in the world. Give me a few units at the point controlled by my power cab and I'd be a happy camper
Well, I recently had a spasm of operator error, and caused a magnificent rear-ender. As usual, most accidents are equipment malfunction, you know, the loose nut at the wheel. :D
Bob... I didn't start this thread so you could pick up on each detail that was inferred or skewed. I posted it so teens wouldn't make as stupid a decision as the one in Chicago, and perhaps think before broadcasting a video all over the internet that puts a crew's job in jeopardy, and ruining opportunities for the "better" railfans.
And I only responded due to "The engineer is at fault" statement. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Everything written in this forum is subject to other's opinions, correct?
In case you didn't notice, I had a few nice comments about teenagers in my area, but you breezed right by that.
I'm glad GG posted this. What a lot might not realize is that GG IS a teenager. If more ( and I'm not just referring to teenagers ) were as responsible as he, a lot of things would be better.
and another tidbit to add to the discussion
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIm-0BtPhayRGu3wWPLSdhZI5Z9wD9414VHO0 (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIm-0BtPhayRGu3wWPLSdhZI5Z9wD9414VHO0)
It is sad when accidents happen , but it is true that drivers are there to control their vehicles . That is their mandated primary function and that is all that they should be concentrating on. They are not tour guides, entertainers or lecturers. This applies to all forms of transportation all the time. People who cannot do this should be passengers or pedestrians.
Okay, if we take GG's guesstimate that it would take 3 years for things to quiet down enough for us to possibly get a cab ride, that'd make me 16...
As for starting to run railroads like elevators, it's impossible with the current technology to run anything other than remote-controlled yard switchers or elevated commuter trains with no grade crossings on the line. A much more realistic possibility would be one-man crews, which were considered for testing on the UP, but good thing the union highly objected....
They haven't yet determined whether or not the signal was functioning, so it's still quite possible that the engineer was operating the train safely, although he sent a text close to the action.
In fact, several of my friends' phones are messed up and don't transmit some texts until hours after you send them. If this was the case with his phone, the engineer could be innocent and the phone records would be incorrect.
Maybe he's not as guilty as the major media has already decided he is.
-Paul
Now from another angle--If you want to get into the cab legitimately, check into volunteering at a nearby tourist line or museum. I'm finishing my third season as a fully qualified conductor. This year we have three students working on board. One is a junior in high school, serving as a trtainman, the other two are college students who are also getting cab time.
Check into it. gj
Has anyone ever asked a pilot to visit the cockpit while your in the air?
Railfanning was much different when I was a teen. Steam was no longer king, but there was still alot around. I would go to roundhouses and walk around and take pictures. Not once was I told to leave. For the most part I stayed out of the way. I was in the cabs of live steam locomotives many times. I always asked if it was ok. The last live steam locomotive on the Santa Fe that I was in was an 1800 2-6-2. I think the last live steam locomotive I was in (in the U.S.) was a Union Pacfic 2-8-2. Remember, that was back when Soo was a railroad. Today it is sue the railroad.
Georgetown Loop Railroad is repairing/rebuilding #12- 2-6-2 Prairie in their shop. The conductor of the line encouraged me to go in and take all the pictures I wanted. I even climbed onto the pilot and looked inside the boiler. Of course the only risk was to myself.
I think some excursions allow a railfan to ride in the cab for an extra fee. Durango and Silverton offers a small group ride in the caboose for a somewhat healthier fee.
Most of my local ones do. They do charge a fair amount but I feel it is worth it. At one of my local railroads if you get there about 2 hours early than they will let you set up in the cab and watch them get the locomotive fired up.
Railfans and Model Railroaders,
I have traveled all up and down the eastern seaboard from Maine to Florida and have seen ladies putting on makeup in the rear view mirror, to gents reading novels and the newspaper in the steering wheel, to people of all ages talking and texting while driving at 80 mile an hour. I have seen parents turned around facing the back seat to discipline children. I think we have all seen these and plenty I won't mention.
It is all to often that the real culprit of an accident never gets caught. That being said, Florida has a 'Distracted Driver' law that has been used to reduce the cell phone abuse while driving. In New Jersey it is illegal and a primary offense to talk on the cell phone with the phone in your hand. These are two states that seem to be taking proactive steps to reduce these events.
That being said, my dad taught me too many moons ago that there are two things you can not legislate....morality and common sense.
My tuppence worth.
Bob
When I'm driving, and my wife says "Oh look at that". I always say "You look, I'm driving". I'm looking down the road, getting the "big picture". With every car I meet, I am calculating possible evasive action for "what ifs". All it takes is a blink of the eyes, a minor distraction, and you can be dead. Sound paranoid? You bet, I'm 70 and still alive.
By the way, have you noticed the road rage today? Some people are lunatics. I could not serve as a patrolman, I'd have a lot of people in jail. And anyone who drives drunk should lose their license for life. Zero tolerance on that, you booze you lose.
Consider...would a railroad engineer, airline pilot or bus driver ever be allowed to operate again if caught impaired?
don't forget boat captains, Exxon Valdez!!!! Bob, if your driving, what is your wife doing???? Her Nails??