I am wondering if Bachmann can produce Auxiliary Water Tenders with different kinds of road names. i.e: UP, SP, WP, ext. I have a Marklin Trix Big Boy, and it would really look great to have a yellow Auxiliary Water Tender behind it :)
I have a Bachmann Spectrum aux. water tender ... I am pretty sure its patterned after an N & W water tender. However I purchased it 'undecorated' (that is with no numbering or anything) to try to 'bash' it into an IC water tender.
I haven't tried to do anything with it yet, but depending on what you want your water tender to look like, an "undec Spectrum water tender" seems like a great place to start.
I purchased mine about a year and a half ago, but assume they are still available.
lanny nicolet
One other thing I should have mentioned about the aux water tender. On the ICRR, at least, I don't think there was any lettering ('road name', etc.) that I can see, on them. Just a small number. Perhaps the same is true of other railroads ... maybe your water tender just doesn't need a road name or even a large number to be 'prototypical' appearing?
lanny nicolet
The Bachmann Water tender is a N&W prototype, the ones I have seen for the UP had rounded ends on them if I remember correctly.
Lanny ICRR's water tenders were basically old locomotive tenders so they varied all over the system. I have seen photos of some that looked like they came off of old 2-6-0s and some huge ones from 2-10-2's most of them did have a number on the side with a X in front of it if I remember correctly and some of them carried the same number as the locomotive they belonged too.I remember seeing in a book (forgot the title) of a ICRR 2500 class with a water tender numbered same as the locomotive. How common this was I have no clue.
Stephen
UP's tenders are pretty unique, and if I remember correctly, the ones they use in excursion service are ex-turbine unit fuel tanks. I do not recall having seen an authentic UP steam era auxiliary water tender.
The Bachmann ones are generally patterned after N&W prototypes (and they just killed the brass aux. tender market).
Thanks for the ICRR info, Stephen.
Maybe that Bachmann water tender I have will go on eBay :-). It shouldn't be hard to bash a water car from an old tender!
lanny nicolet
A passable UP A-tank can be bashed from two Bowser #150001 SP-1 Semi-Vanderbilt Tender Kits, join two rear sections together.
A similar conversion could probably done with some of the tenders Bachmann sells, such as this one:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/catalog/?function=detail&id=1144
Though it does look a little light.
The Spectrum A-tank is an excellent match for the N&W prototype, down to the unique trucks.
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2007, 09:59:32 PM
A passable UP A-tank can be bashed from two Bowser #150001 SP-1 Semi-Vanderbilt Tender Kits, join two rear sections together.
A similar conversion could probably done with some of the tenders Bachmann sells, such as this one:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/catalog/?function=detail&id=1144
Though it does look a little light.
The Spectrum A-tank is an excellent match for the N&W prototype, down to the unique trucks.
Nah. Wouldn't work for what I need. Bachmann would pretty much have to recreate a whole new tender if they decided to make some in UP.
JFYI, the ex-turbine tenders,
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/river_eagle/UP-844/844003.jpg)
have just been rebuilt into this
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/river_eagle/UP-844/09-22-06_1500.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/river_eagle/UP-844/09-23-06_0626.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/river_eagle/UP-844/09-23-06_0627.jpg)
and are now much closer to the N&W style, then the original turbine tenders.
Oh how strange! When did they rebuild them like that? Thats really interesting. Thank you for showing that :)
pics taken just over the last summer, pic of turbine tender 809 taken in may 2006, and rebuilt 814 in sept, 2006, both at Kansas City Union Station
814 was done over winter 2005/2006, and 809 is being rebuilt now
entire album can be seen at
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/river_eagle/UP-844/ (http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f123/river_eagle/UP-844/)
links to the rebuilds
upp809
http://projects.wasatch-rr-contractors.com/?page_id=99 (http://projects.wasatch-rr-contractors.com/?page_id=99)
upp 814
http://projects.wasatch-rr-contractors.com/?page_id=14 (http://projects.wasatch-rr-contractors.com/?page_id=14)
Very cool. With the new one they have now.....I could almost get an undecorated Bachmann Aux tender and repaint it as UP.
Would that work, or is Bachmann's Aux tender still the wrong shape?
Remember that the auxillary water tender is an "end of steam" device. As noted, almost all of them were bashed in company shops from retired tenders, removing the fuel bunker and converting the entire tender to hold water.
Yes, I'm almost positive that the UP A tenders come from turbine fuel tanks and are all excursion devices.
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on March 15, 2007, 05:19:34 PM
Remember that the auxillary water tender is an "end of steam" device. As noted, almost all of them were bashed in company shops from retired tenders, removing the fuel bunker and converting the entire tender to hold water.
Yes, I'm almost positive that the UP A tenders come from turbine fuel tanks and are all excursion devices.
Gene
Interesting. It must have been the cheapest and easiest way to do it.
Can Bachmann build some of these? Do you know if any other company has built Auxiliary water tenders?
There is currently what is purported to be a model of a UP steam era aux. tender on ebay, in brass. OMI if I remember right. Different, I will give it that.
Most aux. tenders I have seen were all based on the N&W prototype; a regular tender with the fuel section removed and covered over so it was all water. VGN aux. tenders were just like N&W's, but a little smaller as they had smaller tenders to start with. To my knowledge PFM, Key, OMI, NWSL, Bachmann, and now BLI have all offered them over the years.
When the Southern Railway was running steam excursions they used the tender from an L&N M-1 berkshire as an auxiliary tender. Some railroads, like B&O, used very distinctive auxiliary tenders. I think the "Beano" people called theirs "Water Bottles."
My advice to someone wanting an auxiliary tender would be to look around for an appropriate tender for your particular railroad and couple it behind your favorite engine.
Good point Woody. One of those L&M Big Emma tenders became the the black with a red stripe, and later all black excursion tender that ran behind N&W J 611 starting in 1982, and later behind N&W 1218. The methodology Norfolk Southern used on that one was the same one N&W used back in steam days. One of the same men oversaw the operation in Birmingham, if you watched the 611 rebuild video.
Ahhhh, memories of better days.
Please note that the original Bachmann A-tank (not the current Spectrum model) is an excellent model of the excursion tenders that were made from L&N M1 tenders. I am not aware of any other non-brass A-tanks that match the N&W/NS excursion A-tanks.
If you can't find one of the original Bachmann A-tanks, you could get closer to the excursion A-tank by installing roller bearing Buckeye trucks in place of the Pilcher trucks on the Spectrum model.
The M1 tender was very similar to the tenders N&W modified into A-tanks, except for the trucks.
Quote from: Nigel on March 16, 2007, 06:28:48 PM
Please note that the original Bachmann A-tank (not the current Spectrum model) is an excellent model of the excursion tenders that were made from L&N M1 tenders. I am not aware of any other non-brass A-tanks that match the N&W/NS excursion A-tanks.
If you can't find one of the original Bachmann A-tanks, you could get closer to the excursion A-tank by installing roller bearing Buckeye trucks in place of the Pilcher trucks on the Spectrum model.
The M1 tender was very similar to the tenders N&W modified into A-tanks, except for the trucks.
Can you give me a picture of what it looks like?
For picture purposes only
http://cgi.ebay.com/Norfolk-Western-RR-Steam-locomotive-WATER-TENDER_W0QQitemZ130089774352QQcategoryZ19132QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This is the one that ran behind the J in 1982, and leaked all the way from Birmingham to Roanoke.
That would work perfectly!
I'm guessing Bachmann can't do another run of these? Or make a undecorated type version of those A-Tanks?
Bachmann has also made Spectrum auxiliary tenders, in N&W, B&O, and Undecorated, and BLI also currently has Aux. tanks. There are plenty of them on that auction site, and at tons of vendors. They are all much more detailed than the '80s N&W Bachmann tank I posted that picture of. It has been awhile since I looked at mine, but if I remember right that original Bachmann A tank, and the prototype it was based on, were both considerably larger than the original 1950s versions. For my money (seven times actually) the Bachmann Spectrum tenders are one of the best deals going. Trainworld did have them for like $19. The brass ones used to fetch $140, but I haven't looked in a long time.
Hello Everyone:
I wish I still had my Trains Big Boy Issue from the 50's still.
on the original Bigboys, I seen pictures where a long Vanderbilt tender was modified to hold just water.
as mentioned on here, a lot of the water tenders were end of steam made items, mostly from older tenders.
check out some of the older big boy pics sometimes you will see them as for the newer use one for the Union Pacific challenger, I have pics of it somewhere where it was stripped down to it's original black paint.
there is a brass replica out, it costs about $150.00 , best bet get a Monogram model kit of the Big boy and do a conversion on the tender, there is a conversion kit for it, it costs $35.00
then there's the rivarossi option, rivarossi produced one for the excursion train and it is hard to find, it is usually $100.00 when you can find it
I hope this helps
take care
George
Quote from: Stephen Warrington on March 14, 2007, 03:28:30 PM
Lanny ICRR's water tenders were basically old locomotive tenders so they varied all over the system. I have seen photos of some that looked like they came off of old 2-6-0s and some huge ones from 2-10-2's most of them did have a number on the side with a X in front of it if I remember correctly and some of them carried the same number as the locomotive they belonged too.I remember seeing in a book (forgot the title) of a ICRR 2500 class with a water tender numbered same as the locomotive. How common this was I have no clue.
Stephen
Unfortunately, almost none of this information is correct...
The IC built 225 auxiliary water tenders (called "cisterns" by the IC) between 1941 and 1955, of four general types. All were built using old tender FRAMES, but the water bunkers were all new-built.
The cisterns were numbered A500-571, A600-649, A650-659, and A700-704. The only lettering they ever carried were the car number on the lower right corner of the sides, and the car's water capacity on the ends.
The cars lasted well into the ICG, CC&P and evel later IC years, with the rest finally being retired by the CN. After the end of steam in 1960, the cars were used to haul engine sand and diesel fuel throughout the system, as well as water for firefighting trains and chemicals for weed spraying. The last of these cars in active service was pulled by Frisco 1522 as her auxiliary water tender. The car, still road-worthy, is now sitting outdoors at the St Louis Museum of Transportation. I "think" that the Monticello RR Museum also has one of these cars, as well as a couple of shortlines in central Illinois (TP&W and KB&S leap to mind). There USED to be one sitting on a siding in Rockford (along with two 2500-series tenders) but as that collection has recently been picked over by both museums and scrap dealers, I'm not sure if the car has survived.
It MIGHT be possible to kitbash the Bachmann canteens into an IC cistern, but it'll take a LOT of work. Essentially, you'd be keeping part of the frame, part of the sides, and part of the ends, and will have to toss the trucks, roof, and parts of the rest of the car. It'd be easier to take two of the USRA short tenders, cut off the ends, and glue the ends back-to-back onto one of the frames.
Quote from: SteamGene on March 15, 2007, 05:19:34 PM
Remember that the auxillary water tender is an "end of steam" device. As noted, almost all of them were bashed in company shops from retired tenders, removing the fuel bunker and converting the entire tender to hold water.
1941 isn't anywhere near the end of steam. Neither is the 1930s, which is when the Alton began using auxiliary water tenders (they were using converted tank cars). But it is true that they're a "big steam" thing, almost always utelized by larger, more aggressively managed roads.
Hi Orson,
I have seen photos of the homebuilt ICRR water tenders used here in the Mississippi Delta on the Y&MV and most of them were old coal tenders not the cisterns which I have also seen photos of and in one I do remember seeing the aux tender number matching the locomotive number from a retired ICRR conductors own photos. I wish he was still alive and I had access to his many photos of the southern end of the ICRR and Y&MV.
Stephen
Quote from: Stephen Warrington on March 21, 2007, 08:22:12 PM
Hi Orson,
I have seen photos of the homebuilt ICRR water tenders used here in the Mississippi Delta on the Y&MV and most of them were old coal tenders not the cisterns which I have also seen photos of and in one I do remember seeing the aux tender number matching the locomotive number from a retired ICRR conductors own photos. I wish he was still alive and I had access to his many photos of the southern end of the ICRR and Y&MV.
Stephen
I'd genuinely like to see those photos Stephen, because what I'm seeing in my IC data (which is a VERY large database; ask Lanny!) isn't confirming what you're saying. According to the Y&MV ICC valuation report (1932) they had exactly ONE "flat car with locomotive tender body". One means that it's likely the water supply car for the road's weed sprayer train. As for the IC's cisterns having engine numbers on them, I just went through 300 images of IC mainline trains with cisterns, and none of them had large numbers on the sides.
So while there MAY have been a couple of Y&MV engines set up to use two tenders, and while there MAY have been a stray cistern or two that did get engine numbers, they're the exception, not the rule, and there's no "hard" evidence that I can find to support them. So I'm sticking with my assumptions.
Hi Ray,
Didn't realize it was you. I am not disputing anyones data base or facts. But I have seen in old photos in my friend's collection before he died something that looked just like a water tender coupled behind a 2-6-0 I am not for sure of the date and I know the Columbus and Greenvile has had a old tender used as a sand car that they all claim came off the ICRR and it is very small compared to the cisterns the IC built.
I would like to see some of those photos are they on line? I am still learning myself on IC steam and Y&MV steamers thanks to the IC group and Robert Tomb I am thinking of sending him a 4-8-2 from Bachmann and letting him work on it for me I know it wont be perfect but closer than what I have now in HO.
Didn't mean to butt heads with a fellow ICRR modeler.
Stephen
Hi Ray,
Now I got a question do you have any photos of IC's Steam derricks or other big hooks you could share?
I wish I still had access to my friend's photo collection but since he passed away in 1998 it has most likely been destroyed by his family since none of his sons cared anything about trains.
I tried to get a wonderful painting of the Pelican car ferry off of him right before he died but he didn't want to get rid of it.
Stephen
maybe I should stick with motorized boxcars on wheels :(
Quote from: Stephen Warrington on March 22, 2007, 01:38:47 PM
Hi Ray,
Now I got a question do you have any photos of IC's Steam derricks or other big hooks you could share?
You know me Stephen; I've got bunches! Of the 100 MOW shots I've got digitized, I've got shots of crane/pile driver/excavator X7, 9, 10, 18, 20, 22, 24, 25, 32, 238 and 65001. I'll send you a few offlist.
And we're not butting heads, we're just talking about our favorite road! You have given me something to think about, as I too seem to recall a cistern with an engine number on it from someplace. But until I see the proof, I can't say one way or another if it was a real practice or a one time experiment (like the NKP with their "High Speed Service" boxcar)
Quotemaybe I should stick with motorized boxcars on wheels :(
Egads, no!!!!
Here; this should take your mind off such evil things:
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/529/IC_2433_LaSalle_IL_6-1938.jpg)
IC 2433, LaSalle, IL, 6/1938.
Hi Ray,
Thanks so much on the crane shots and that sure is a beauty leaving LaSalle yard.
here is one of the few I have besides the ones I been collecting off the net.
(http://steve.bill--porter.com/YMV/YMV10-1917.jpg)
here is the link to my little collection of old photos
http://steve.bill--porter.com/glory_days.htm
Stephen
Ray,
Beautiful photo of 2433, but I was under the impression that 'most' of the 2400 series ICRR Mountains (as with most of ICRR late steam) had pilot mounted (NY style) air compressors? Or did they get those along with the Paducah sand dome(s) when they were 'shopped'?
Thanks!
lanny nicolet
Check the date Lanny: 1938. The Paducah rebuild program was only started in 1936, so you're looking at an as-built engine that hasn't been sent through the wringer yet. The 2400s were originally built as passenger engines, so didn't get worked on as much by the IC until they made the decision to dieselize all of their mainline passenger trains, and convert the 2400s into straight freight engines. Give it five or six years, and this engine will look COMPLETELY different!
Thanks Ray.
I'm thinking 2400 series for my Spec 4-8-2 heavy (or maybe 2500 series ... I'll contact you 'offline' when I get that far!)
lanny