I've been trying to find a standard for how trains are numbered. Here's what I THINK I know.
In the east westbound trains are odd numbered and eastbound are even. (I'm disregarding north-south as VT&P is a east-west railroad.)
Passenger trains are generally one or two digit numbers and freights are three or four.
The lower the number, the higher the right, unless modified.
Anything else?
Also, I'm thinking that whistle posts made with a metal pole and a placard date back to the 1950s or earlier on at least some eastern roads. Correct?
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on December 05, 2008, 10:57:16 AM
I've been trying to find a standard for how trains are numbered. Here's what I THINK I know.
In the east westbound trains are odd numbered and eastbound are even.
If I can judge by my handy Amtrak Keystone Service schedule, that appears to be correct. Trains from New York to Harrisburg (that is, westbound) all have odd numbers, and trains from Harrisburg to New York (eastbound) all have even numbers.
IIRC, going back into the depths of history, the dearly departed Broadway Limited was #43 westbound and #42 eastbound. Those are currently the numbers for the Pennsylvanian. How the mighty have fallen. ... :(
and whistle posts?
Gene
I don't know what you really want on the whistle post. Most railroads have either a W or a X. some roads used wood posts while other had steel post and some may have had cement. Each railroad had their own standards.
I know that each railroad had standards. Most used a "W" and still do. The Southern, and maybe a few others used Morse Code (Railroad Code?) for "Q" - - O -. The C&O used concrete posts starting at some point and CSX replaces damaged/destroyed ones with a metal rod and sheet metal sign marker.
My question is: Were metal posts and sheet metal signs used by railroads in the 1950s? I THINK they were by some.
The VT&P is a very traditional railroad in many aspects, but very advanced in others. So what are the chances it went to metal posts instead of the C&O standard concrete?
Gene
Generally this is the case. Individual roads have particular systems. On Southern Pacific, "West" was toward San Francisco, "East" away from SF. This led to the case on early Amtrak trains that the Coast Starlight changed number when passing thru Oakland. Southbound was 11 to Oakland, then 14. North--13 to Oakland, then 12 .
The Harriman roads also displayed the train number on lighted boards flanking the smokestack. It was the fireman's job to post the train number. There was a box full of stencil-like inserts to do this. Extra trains carried "X" followed bu the road locomotive number.
Some of my locos don't have numbers. With a loop they can't tell which direction they are going anyway. :D
My layout is a loop, too. But if a train departs staging from Sugar Grove, WV, it's eastbound; from Gordonsville, Va, it's eastbound. A train leaving from Leesboro going towards Sugar Grove is westbound, while going towards Gordonsville, its eastbound.
Gene
OIC, so as a train leaves my Craig yard, it is initially heading east towards Phippsburg so it's "Eastbound", even though it turns south at Oak Creek. When a train leaves Phippsburg it is "Northbound", then turns west for the final leg.
What do you call it if the tracks run straight southeast? 8)
Bob, you are missing the point (or maybe trying to make a different one.) The the direction of the track has nothing to do with the designated direction of a train on it. The track can (and sometimes does) go in circles (think spiral tunnels) and the destination may be more north or south than east or west of the origin but if the timetable says it is a westbound train, then legally it is a westbound train. If it is a non-scheduled train, then whatever order gives that train its existence determines whether it is an eastbound train or a westbound train. When it comes to superiority of trains, the directions of the trains is one of the key considerations. This was very important in the era that Gene is modelling.
Incidentally, some railways run north and south and differentiate between northbound and southbound trains. I am not sure if this is the same as Up Trains and Down Trains, a term still used in some parts of the world.
Bob,
As far as I know. all trains run north or south or east or west. If a train is actually running northwest or southeast - like the Hiawatha between Milwaukee and St. Paul, it will be either a northbond or a westbound, depending on what the railroad decides (or decided) is its primary direction. I'm really not sure whether the Hi runs N-S or E-W as the Roads Westen Extension was sort of an afterthought and the original track play was mostly n-s. So it's possible that the Olympic Hi leaving St. Paul for Seattle was northbound. So it could be that your train leaving Craig Yard is Train #1 eastbound until it gets to Phippsburg where it becomes Train #2 westbound.
BTW, it's not just trains. Interstate 64, stretches from Chesapeake Virginia to just west of St. Louis. Beginning at the eastern terminus in Chesapeake and heading to the western end one first drives due East to Virginia Beach and Norfolk, then heads mostly north and a bit west towards Richmond.
Gene
Quote from: SteamGene on December 05, 2008, 10:57:16 AM
(I'm disregarding north-south as VT&P is a east-west railroad.)
:o
Ok, I understand now, thanks
There again. The VT&P's original purpose was to transport Chesapeake Bay oysters, crabs, and fish to the north after the War Between the States. The damnyankees obviously loved them, so a group of veterans built a railroad from Ginea, Virginia to Fredericksburg to interchange with the RF&P. This track is NW, but declared E-W. When the track pushed SW towards Gordonsville, there remained no question that directions would be nothing but E-W.
Gene
Each railroad designates a point which determines east/west (or north/south) This is specified in the timetable and other documents. It generally has little to do with compas direction. Usually it is the headquarters city of the road. Mileposts usually recon from this point, as well.
Quote from: glennk28 on December 07, 2008, 08:59:06 PM
Each railroad designates a point which determines east/west (or north/south) This is specified in the timetable and other documents. It generally has little to do with compas direction. Usually it is the headquarters city of the road. Mileposts usually recon from this point, as well.
Indeed. I think I read someplace that the Pennsylvania Railroad measured distance from the ends of the tracks in old Broad Street Station in Philadelphia, and the distance designations weren't changed even when the station was demolished.
While the old Broad Street Station may have been torn down, the tracks remained (and still remain). The 30th Street station took over as the primary station for the PRR in Philly, but the old tracks became the terminus for the commuter operations, and it was renamed Suburban Station. All of this operation is below ground, mostly under air-rights building development.
C&O, now CSX, measured from Mile Post Zero at the passenger station at Ft. Monroe, Va, which was abandoned in 1940. Track at Ft. Monroe lasted until the 1970s. Now the closest track to Mile Post Zero is a bit west of MP 3. In addition, MP 0 was on the Hampton Branch.
Gene
Quote from: Johnson Bar Jeff on December 05, 2008, 01:37:55 PM
Quote from: SteamGene on December 05, 2008, 10:57:16 AM
I've been trying to find a standard for how trains are numbered. Here's what I THINK I know.
In the east westbound trains are odd numbered and eastbound are even.
If I can judge by my handy Amtrak Keystone Service schedule, that appears to be correct. Trains from New York to Harrisburg (that is, westbound) all have odd numbers, and trains from Harrisburg to New York (eastbound) all have even numbers.
IIRC, going back into the depths of history, the dearly departed Broadway Limited was #43 westbound and #42 eastbound. Those are currently the numbers for the Pennsylvanian. How the mighty have fallen. ... :(
I worked in the Pennsy's Sales Department and the "Broadway Limited" was Nos. 28 and 29, an all-Pullman train, while "The General", nos. 48 and 49 was the coach train between New York and Chicago. 28, 29, and the Metroliners were the only trains I couldn't use my pass to ride.