This is not to pester the Bach-Man at all, but rather to talk more or less about the eastern narrow gauge railroads, I mean all of them from the E.T.&.W.N.C to the E.B.T and any others that I dont Know about. My personal reason for this topic is discuss the narrow gauge in the east and not in the west for they are very popular more than the east, at least that is what I think. First thing is first if any of the E.T.&.W.N.C models are produced would you think the 10-wheeler would look like the R.G.S ten-wheeler or like the #12.
Good topic Dusten. I would prefer the following:
a) ET&WNC ten-wheeler & set based on the G scale models
b) A modified Forney & a small 2-8-0 would fill out the Lawndale roster. Note that a "Lawndale" lettered ventilated boxcar is coming out this year. With the addition of some styrene, the existing On30 gon could be made into a killer Lawndale car.
c) A Baldwin 4-4-0 could be lettered Chester & Lenoir Narrow Gauge or Carolina & North-Western. Works for early era pikes, up to 1902 anyway. Remember that the C&N-W was the longest NG railroad in either one of the Carolinas. Could also letter a couple 4-4-0's for the narrow gauge Danville & Western.
d) A Mason Bogie could work for some early eastern NG lines as well.
And PLEASE don't forget an EBT Mikado! ;)
;D Lee: Great EBT shot. Perfect light and everything. On the broader subject, try and find yourself a copy of Hilton's book "American Narrow Gauge". It covers virtually every common-carrier narrow gauge in the country. It does not, however, cover items like logging roads or industrial plant lines that were captive and did not (normally) interchange. Pennsylvania along had a long list of N.G. lines. Longest-lived were the EBT (still running) and the Waynesburg and Washington (quit as a narrow guage line in 1936, though the PRR actually wide-gauged it and it hung around intact until about the late '50's). Side note--it would be neat if someone (hello, Bachmann) would do the W&W Cooke Moguls. The Pittsburg and Western ran out of the oil feilds around Bradford down to the Steel City. The B&O took it over in the early 1900's but ran it 3' for a few years before wide-gauging it. The Knox & Kane tourist line uses a part of this line. It also interchanged with the Tionesta Valley RR, which ran south out of Sheffield. It was primarily a logging line, but had some decent milage. The G gauge outside-frame Heisler is modeled on one of their engines. There were a lot of lines that were gone early-either absorbed into the big roads or just abandoned. The famous Ma & Pa was originally narrow guage, and the predecessor Peach Bottom, Eastern Division, became the Lancaster, Oxford & Southern which lasted until the early 1920's.
There were also the Tuscarora Valley and the Newport and Sherman's Valley lines. Again, both lasted into the 1920's.
The south end of the Ma & Pa went through several road name changes, including the Maryland Central RR and the Baltimore and Lehigh. The latter had a 2-8-0 that was a copy of the D&RG C-16 class locos.
In Dixie, you had the Surrey, Sussex & Southampton, a mostly-logging road but with some line-haul. One of their 2-6-2's is at the Pine Creek RR in New Jersey. The Southern had a narrow gauge line they acquired, which was in the same general tidewater area.
The West Virginia Central served coal and lumber interests out in deepest West Virginia. Some of that line was taken over by the B&O, some by the Western Maryland.
The more well-known lines--Lawndale and ET&WNC got great press from Beebe and Clegg, mostly because they were still around in the 1940's.
Lets get some ideas put out if the Bach-Mann does happen to read this, as ya'll know good and well I am ameing for the E.T.&W.N.C models and others, hummmmm, such as some W.P.&.Y models because tweetsie did happen to perches a 2-8-2 from them, and some open coaches used on the route in the 20s-40s on the E.T in senic excursions and such, also some diffrent wheel arrangement locos such as the biggest narrow gauge switcher on the E.T the 0-8-0. We'll see what we get in the near future.
More Southern than eastern - Argent Lumber Company - you have to love the cabbage stacks.
Shay Number 8 on the Mann's Creek line - again - have to love the stack.
Any of the S. S. & S. locomotives - interesting little line. If you can find the book The Company - it tells the history of this railroad.
The Lawndale - those 2-8-0s are tiny! That combine rules!
Again more Southern than eastern, any of the sugar plantation lines in Louisiana - Butler's Down Among The Sugar Cane is required reading if you can find it.
Not eastern, but Alaskan - White Pass & Yukon Route #69!
I fancy more of the balloon and others rather than the cabbage not to insult. I find the cabbag stack a unique stack design and first thought that other countrys had the stack for that is what i saw in a book on trains and such. Like it but not what i am usest to seing on trains.
Quote from: ebtnut on March 16, 2007, 09:55:44 PM
;D Side note--it would be neat if someone (hello, Bachmann) would do the W&W Cooke Moguls.
I thought the Bachmann Moguls (the ones without the C&S air tank) were close to these locos, especially to the existing W&W #4. The Pensy liveried Bachmann mogul was given the number W&W #4 had while in Pensy livery.
Hamish
The Bachmann Mogul is a model of a DSP&P Mogul (later C&S). The W&W locos were a bit newer and somewhat distinct in their appearance. I'll give credit to Bachmann for doing their model in PRR lettering, but it really is not the same loco. I've actually seen the W&W loco in operation. It is located at the Greene County fairgrounds near Waynesburg. They had it runable back in the mid-'80's, though only on about 100 yards of track. The people who maintained it back then left or passed away, and the engine sat for about 15 years inside the shed, where she lost some parts along the way. They have it painted W&W on one side, and PRR on the other.
Just to throw another loco idea out, I would like to see some articulated engines. Hay folks, is there any differnt types of trains on the E.B.T besides the popular mike's? I know the ET&WNC had shays tiny 2-8-0s 0-8-0s and the famouse 4-6-0s and last but not least the 2-6-0 that has the back wheel positioned in the far back un like the the 2-6-0s bachmann makes.
Listen guys, how about some true Western stuff for a change! ;) Other than the original 2-6-0 the rest has been pretty much Eastern prototypes. The shay and the climax come from Ohio â€" Michigan and Pennsylvania respectively. The freight stock was based on a Pennsylvania prototype, the 2 bay hopper was an East Broad Top car. The Forney is about as down east as it gets and the 2-8-0 comes from south of the border by way of Edaville. I too would like a 4-6-0 but with something SPish about it with the whale back tender or God forbid it a MASON BOGIE. ;D ;D
Andre Anderson
Quote from: Dusten on March 18, 2007, 12:14:20 PM
Just to throw another loco idea out, I would like to see some articulated engines. Hay folks, is there any differnt types of trains on the E.B.T besides the popular mike's? I know the ET&WNC had shays tiny 2-8-0s 0-8-0s and the famouse 4-6-0s and last but not least the 2-6-0 that has the back wheel positioned in the far back un like the the 2-6-0s bachmann makes.
If you go back in time, most definitely. You've got a handful of 2-8-0s, 2-6-0s ranging from the diminutive to large (48" drivers), and a few 4-6-0s also with 48" drivers. (And the 2-6-2 predecessor of the famous mikados.) The pre-mikado era on the EBT is ripe for modeling in On30, with a mixture of small and large wood freight cars and a good variety of motive power. You're not going to find commercial models to match the EBT's locos exactly, but you can come close. The (not B'mann) C-16 would be a good candidate for EBT's #7, which was essential a C-19. B'mann's mogul is a bit smaller than the EBT's large moguls, but would fit the bill well enough. (I'm coming from the perspective that if you're modeling the EBT in On30 instead of On3, then you're willing to accept a fair amount of compromise.)
Later,
K
I agree with amdaylight. It is time for Bachmann to come out with a western narrow gauge box car and caboose at a minimum. Other revenue cars would be great but I would settle for a box car plus a caboose from a rail line west of the Mississippi right now.
Being a modeller of the south - Louisiana in particular - it might be interesting to know that many common cariers in the south have (partly) started as narrow gauge cariers. Some were converted to standard gauge as late as 1910.
Among these: a large portion of the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio in Mississippi and Tennessee, as well as Missouri Pacific (the Iron Mountain predecessor) in Louisiana.
Actually, the more you dig into the history of well-known common cariers in this region, the more you find about such interesting topics.
Richard
Bachmann might find that some cars based on Carter Brothers designs would sell well.
I thought this was about the east ;).
Re: Early EBT--FWIW, MMI is supposed to release a model of a C-19 this summer in On3 and On30. List price is about $450. A bit of history of EBT 7: It was built as a copy of the D&RG engines, but came with a capped stack instead of a diamond stack. It ran pretty much stock into the 1900's. In 1907 she got caught in a shop fire, which destroyed the cab and did other damage. The engine was rebuilt with a new steel cab of the same design as the Mikes have today. She was sold to the OR&W in 1913, and survived there till the end in 1936. At some point, the main rod was moved from the second to the third axle, and she acquired a new tender (maybe on the OR&W). So far as we know, the engine kept the Eames vacuum brake system throughout her life.
My vote is for more SR&RL equipment. I would also be interested in any of the Ma&Pa narrow gauge predesessor's equipmeent, in particular the Peach Bottom Forney.
P.S.- Could someone tell me where the spell check is?
Wade
Opps-I ment Peach Bottom Mason-Bogie.
Wade
Sorry to have injected the Carter Brothers plug in this board.
I think SRRL or other Maine rolling stock would be a nice complement to the Forneys. I have been agitating for a model of SR&RL prairie # 24 for a while. I bet EBT steel box cars would also be well received.
This did'nt kick off like I planned. Get some topics going or something. ;)
On30 has a very small part of the train hobby and manufacturers have to figure what will sell so that they can make some money. SR&RL is a fine line to model but not everyone cares for that line. If I was investing $$ , I sure would not consider making every line and railroad equipment as some would be losers. Most On30 manufactures look at D&RGW and the logging items but the rest is a crap shoot..
Now what would you invest your $$ in and sell ? I just might be interested !
Cheers,
Good Afternoon,
While the manufactures may look at Colorado(DRGW) narrow gauge and logging for On30 items, I would love to know how well the EBT two bay steel hoppers did in comparison to the other road names, and the EBT galloping goose from Precision Craft was an extremely good seller even though the EBT never had anything close to resembling the goose.
No, I think the past two years has proven that Eastern narrow gauge can and will sell, so I hope the manufacturers step up and get the equipment out to the buying public.
One more thought. I was in a local hobby shop today looking at car and truck models. What I saw was models in 1/72 scale, 1/35 scale, and 1/25th scale. I think many of these manufactures are missing out on a great niche by not offering things such as autos and trucks in either 1/48 or 1/50 scale. Right now, Athearn - of all people is doing things in 1/50 scale. Now, I know that there is quite a bit out there in 1/43, but once you see 1/43 next to true 1/48 scale or 1/50 scale, then you realize, as a scale modeler, how out of size to the large side, 1/43 scale really is.
Bob
I think there are several EBT prototypes that would sell well and not to just EBT fans, but the many freelancers in the On30 world of modeling.
The steel box cars would do well I believe - Bachmann would probably have to use some creative modeling license (sp?) and reduce it in size - so let's call it a EBT styled steel box car.
Given the popularity of the Goose in EBT styled lettering, the actual EBT railbus, I think it is M-1 or M-3? would be wildly popular and serve as the starting point for countless kitbashes and repaint jobs by the freelance modelers.
Finally, an EBT caboose would be popular as a larger caboose to serve as an alternative to the small caboose Bachmann produces.
I also think that for a really cool alternative piece of passenger equipment, the Lawndale combine would be great.
My last suggestion would be a neat alternative and the western modelers would love it as well - the closed vestibule coach on the Linville River/ET&WNC. The western guys could use it as a means to obtain a "San Juan-like" set of cars and the freelancers and easter narrow gauge guys could have a neat and modern piece of narrow gauge varnish.
I would buy all of the above if put into production. Just my several cents on the matter.
I forgot to add a SR&RL pulpwood rack. Would be easy for Bachmann I would think - just add the rack to the existing production flat.
Good Morning All,
One of the above listed items that was mentioned as a possible good selling item from EBT is going to happen and by two different manufacturers.
The EBT caboose will soon be available from both Deerfield River Laser and BTS. On the BTS site there is a pic of the unfinished, but assemble body, sans roof. The DRL model should be ready around third week of May as Ed, the owner has told me he is pushing hard to have the car ready for the Kimberton, Pa Narrow Gauge Modular Meet , third weekend in May.
Bob
I think great selling items would be some open coaches such as the one's used on the ET&WNC RR in the 20s and 30s on trains heading to boone and hitting the fishing hole on the way there and back for a little rest and fun and also I think bachmann should produces people figures in O-scale as well such as the locomotive crew and other people figures in O-scale. I would like to see some civil war figures in O-scale but narrow gauge wont even herd of till 1866 after the civil war but then again there was renagades out still fighting ::)
Arttista makes a very good line of 1/48 figures, most pre-painted. I heartily second the motion for some true 1/48 vehicles. Aside from some very hard to find Revell and Monogram kits from the '60's, and a few case metal old-time vehicle kits, there is virtually nothing out there. I've got a pile of the 1/43 vehicles because that's what's been available for my early '50's era pike. Sure would like to see a Ford Model A, a '49 Ford, a 55 Chevy, a nice "woody", an early '50's pick-up (make not important). You get the idea. Let's not see "rare" or "high-end" vehicles--imports, Caddilacs, Edsels, and other stuff that the large bulk of working folk would not be driving. I happen to think that Bachmann could open up a whole new market by doing a line of scale vintage vehicles that just happen to be compatible with their On30 line! (Hint, hint!!)
Quote from: old fardt on March 24, 2007, 05:37:46 PM
On30 has a very small part of the train hobby and manufacturers have to figure what will sell so that they can make some money. SR&RL is a fine line to model but not everyone cares for that line. If I was investing $$ , I sure would not consider making every line and railroad equipment as some would be losers. Most On30 manufactures look at D&RGW and the logging items but the rest is a crap shoot..
Now what would you invest your $$ in and sell ? I just might be interested !
Cheers,
Good point. Bach Man, could you tell us how well the Forneys sold?
My guess is they sold very well. My reasoning is there seems to be some correlation between the exposure of the railroad to the public and what models sell (seems obvious). The Western narrow gauges have many museums and the like therefore many people model them. Model manufacturers have helped to grow "the western narrow gauge scene" by filling the demand which in turn creates more demand simply by being available (more exposure). Eastern narrow gauge modeling has been slower to grow seemingly due to its lack of exposure (most were abandoned or standard gauged leaving less for us to see today). However, the few remaining are closer to much more population than the Western narrow gauges. Here is the hungry market, I think. The more produced, the more it will grow too.
Then again I am biased. I think the Western scene is fascinating (in particular the DSP&P) but I am from the East.
Earlier in this thread I mentioned the Peach Bottom Mason-Bogie. It was an 0-6-6, very similar to Western, Pacific Coast and Midwest Masons. I would invest in an On30 plastic model of this type so that hopefully it could be produced at a price as to allow kitbashers to also have fun. I think SR&RL, EBT and ET&WNC power and rolling stock could also go far.
Thanks for your attention Bachmann and members, Sorry for the long-windedness.
Wade
Yeah, a Mason Bogie!
Royce Wilson :)
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a Mason Bogie. I would think Bachmann could make as either an 0-6-6T (Peach Bottom and others) and as a 2-6-6T (South Park). I might get one just because they're neat, though I have no use for one on my pike.
The only real reason to produce the Peach Bottom loco would be as a spin-off from a South Park 2-6-6t.
The best choice for an EASTERN Mason bogie would be the Boston, Revere Beach and Lynn 2-4-4t's. These were numerous and lastest a long time. The Peach Bottom loco was a solo example and had a short life (2 or 3 years).
The difficulty is that if a Mason Bogie is made that is not a South Park loco the Colorado fanatics will run amok! I suspect that the B,RB&L locos are too different in general, as well as having a different wheel arrangement, for much common tooling with a South Park loco to be possible.
Hamish
I concur that the model, if done, should follow the South Park prototype. Doing a version without the pilot wheel and a different stack would serve well enough for the Peach Bottom fans out there. The Revere Beach locos were a whole other story. The current Sandy River Forneys are a bit closer, though the driver sizes are considerably different.
I for one would buy 2 Mason bogies if they were the mid size 2-6-6T DSP&P. I am not modeling Colorado but free lancing in PA, I just like the loco's. Russian iron boiler, red cab, gold trim etc...
Ken
I really dont know what a mason bogy is. I may be a railroad inthusest but I han't got every thang down pat. I am free lancing the Black River & Southern Railroad because I do not have the space for the ET&WNC RR and would like to know how to get some moutians going. My first attempt at a moutian was with brick and a lot of plaster but I for got to add the color before it dried and now I have a snowy mountian in the Eastern part in North Carolina.
Well, I would buy one thats built more to DSP&P specs such as the San Jaun but in Peach Bottom paint. The specs are close enough. I wouldn't expect any more accuracy (in a plastic model) than in the Forneys and that suites me fine. It seems like a great avenue for Bachmann. They could use the same basic frame and make 2-4-4s, 0-6-4s, 0-6-6s and 2-6-6s. If you don't have Aurthur Wallace's book "Mason steam Locomotives" you got to get one. The examples of these engines were used nation wide and then some.
For Dusten, Forneys and Mason Bogies appear the same but Mason Bogies I think began production earlier and I know the drivers of Mason Bogies articulated (like a Mallet). I don't think Forneys articulated, but I don't know for sure. Can anyone verify one way or anouther?
Wade
Quote from: wade on March 29, 2007, 07:13:47 PM
For Dusten, Forneys and Mason Bogies appear the same but Mason Bogies I think began production earlier and I know the drivers of Mason Bogies articulated (like a Mallet). I don't think Forneys articulated, but I don't know for sure. Can anyone verify one way or anouther?
Wade
That is right, Mason Bogies have articulated drivers, Forneys do not.
I agree that a South Park loco, possibly with a Peach Bottom spin off, is more likely than a Revere Beach loco in the, probably unlikely, event that Bachmann decide to produce a Mason Bogie. I was just pointing out that the classic EASTERN Mason Bogies were the Revere Beach ones as this is a thread on EASTERN narrow gauge.
Hamish
.
As near as I can tell, virtually all of the Revere Beach locos were Forneys, not Bogies. As noted, the difference is that the drivers and frame rotated under the boiler with Bogies, while the Forneys were rigid. I suspect one of the downfalls of the Mason Bogies (and Mason also built Forneys) was maintaining the flexible steam connections between the boiler and cylinders. IIRC, there is a Bogie at the big museum (Greenfield's??) near Detroit.
Quote from: ebtnut on March 31, 2007, 12:13:17 AM
As near as I can tell, virtually all of the Revere Beach locos were Forneys, not Bogies.
Every source I have seen states that the Revere beach locomotives were the Mason Bogie type, not Forneys. Not all were built by Mason, after Mason's closed Revere beach bought the design and had it made by other makers. See www.ironhorse129.com/Prototype/MasonBogie/Mason_Bogie.htm (http://www.ironhorse129.com/Prototype/MasonBogie/Mason_Bogie.htm)
Hamish
Hamish,
I appologize if it seems that I diverged from the Eastern thread but I am trying to justify to Bachmann the production of a Mason Bogie 0-6-4, 0-6-6 or 2-6-6 in Eastern road names. Additional Eastern roads that would fit this general design aside from the Peach Bottom are the Toledo, Delphos & Burlington (2-6-6s - 6 engines) , Cincinnati & Northern (2-6-6 - 1 engine) and Calumet & Helca Minning (0-6-4s - 2 engines). I believe there were more and of coarse many were boomers. To say that the Boston, Revere Beach & Lynn's are "The classic Eastern Mason Bogie" is only an opinion, just like saying "the only reason for Bachmann to produce the Peach Bottom Mason Bogie would be as a spinnoff of the DSP&P 2-6-6" is only an opinion. After all, Bachmann has produced Ma&Pa locomotives with great sucess (4 soon to be 5 in HO and 1 4-4-0 in G gauge of narrow gauge Baltimore & Leigh#6). The Boston, Revere Beach & Lynn's Mason Bogie 2-4-4s were certainly beautiful. I would buy one. Due to there quantity you could say that they were the most common, but they were used nation wide also. The obvious choices for production in my OPINION are Heislers, 4-4-0s, 4-6-0s and continueing with SR&RL equipment. As long as the economy holds, these narrow gauge avenues will eventually lead to Mason Bogies I hope.
Wade
Of course my statements are only an opinion, probably the majority of posts on this board are expressing opinions, nothing wrong with that.
Given that the Revere Beach locos lasted longer, were more numerous and were well know and attractive I will defend my opinion that they are the classic Eastern Masons.
I had agreed with you that , if Bachmann were to make a Mason, a South Park loco with, where possible, spin-offs for other roads including eastern ones would probably maximise their sales. Doesn't stop me preferring the Revere Beach locos.
Hamish
Hamish way to
Hamish,
I apologize, this time for not realizing that you were only intending to state an opinion. Looking back I now notice that you write in an authoritative style.
Thanks for the great link. The B,RB&L is a curiuos narrow gauge to me by being a commuter line. Do you know of any web sites on the B,RB&L? All the information I have is from Hilton's book "American Narrow Gauge Railroads" and Wallace's book "Mason Steam Locomotives". In particular, what speeds did they run? I read that their curvature was negligible. Is that your understanding as well? And what about grades? In my visits to the Boston area I found it to be hilly right to the water's edge, unlike Maryland where I grew up.
Wade
I would like some scenery tips. I have attemted mountians, but built them out of brick and plaster.( DO NOT DO THAT) I am a newbie if you want to say because I have not really got a model railroad started, my self being 15, and not having a part time job has a lot to do with it; also money is tight now days and only get my supplies around christmas and my birthday. I aquire my stuff frome my dad and I need some scenery tips on mountians, and also rivers, vally's, the works.
Hamish: My appologies. Pulled the trigger before aiming. Yes, most all of the BRB&L locos were of the Bogie design, though built by 3 different builders. It isn't readily apparent from the pics, but is definitly noted as such in the chapter on Locos in the book. Amazingly, one of them lasted (in stationary steam service) till the end of electric service in 1940. For those unfamiliar, the Boston, Revere Beach and Lynn was a 3-foot gauge pike built along the beaches north of Boston with ferry connections into the Hub City. The road began with steam in the 1870's, and converted to electricity in 1928. Bad timing, as the conversion was expensive, and the Depression hit almost immediatly, so the road quit in 1940.
Looks like the topic has almost derailed. What did the BRB&L Railroads locomotives look like?
The BRB&L locos were for the most part 2-4-4T Bogies. They looked somewhat like the Bachmann inside-frame Forneys, but maybe about a third bigger, and with drivers about 48" diameter.
Quote from: Dusten on April 06, 2007, 04:56:14 PM
Looks like the topic has almost derailed. What did the BRB&L Railroads locomotives look like?
See http://www.ironhorse129.com/Prototype/MasonBogie/Mason_Bogie.htm (http://www.ironhorse129.com/Prototype/MasonBogie/Mason_Bogie.htm)
for pictures of most Mason Bogies including the Revere Beach ones.
Hamish
Them suckers were big for narrow gauge! I liked them, but the spacing of the wheels were not to my liking.
I was going to open a new topic but you guys already started it- Wha I would like to see Bachmann make in On30 (I'll buy several and re-gauge them) is the ET&WNC piggyback car that they did in G Scale some years back. That ought to be an easy one since the design work is already in-house. gj
Do you already have a layout based on the ET&WNC? If so i would like to see some pictures of it. I was attempting to build it, but two 4x8s and one 1x12 wont work.
Forgot to tell ya'll that the open car design on the et&wnc can ve viewed on www.johnsonsdepot.com/crumley/tour1.htm , ya'll can the rise and fall of the et&wnc railroad
My under-construction layout is D&RGW in On3--but if I like something I'll add it--can'y you picture a string of cars carrying "Rio Grande Motorways" trailers over Cumbres Pass?
Do any of ya'll think if bachmann were to make the tweetsie ten-wheeler they would modifie it to turn a sharper corner? I had a G-scale 4-6-0 and it turned some sharp curves why can't bachmann do the same with the smaller scale? By the way if any of ya'll checked out the site, what did you think of it?
How tight a curve a loco will handle is a function of how many compromises to scale that you can live with. The Large Scale models took some liberties with the Tweetsie locos to handle those sharp curves. Could it be done for On30? Probably--they've gotten the Ma & Pa Ten-Wheeler to handle those curves, and the mechanisim isn't much smaller than a narrow gauge O scale model would be.
Well shoot. I have just learned that tweetsie had a rail bus running on there line. I guss that every NG railroad has at least 1 motorized peice of equipment.
I'll have to look later, but that might be the one the Tweetsie pawned off on the EBT back when both roads had interlocking directorets As far as is known, the unit never turned a wheel in regular service on the Broad Top, and they acquired the M-1 instead. It looked a bit like a cable car body with a hood out front.
Looks like the ET&WNC sold the thing to the EBT. The thing was made out of a johnson city street car, Jitney. It ran off rail alot and so it was sold to the EBT
Have you all seen the scenic express grass prairie trufs? They look like the real deal, and it is in mats instead of having to glue and stick packs of grass to something. It looks great. Go to www.scenicexpress.com the mess on there is great.
Wont to start sharing how do to do senery and stuff. I would like to know how to build a great layout
Quote from: glennk28 on April 07, 2007, 08:55:09 PM
I was going to open a new topic but you guys already started it- Wha I would like to see Bachmann make in On30 (I'll buy several and re-gauge them) is the ET&WNC piggyback car that they did in G Scale some years back. That ought to be an easy one since the design work is already in-house. gj
Gleen
RMC had an article on constructing the piggyback cars years ago, still
have article in a binder (but which one is the question)<G>. Will see if
I can find article and give a issue date and post.
They are on my O2IT list, along with a lot of other O2IT's
Ken
GWN
Dusten,
I cannot tell by your sentence structure if you want to share ideas or are looking for ideas for scenery etc.
Assuming you are looking for advice, then mine would be to get the Woodland Scenics Scenery manual. It is between $10-12 and makes things very easy to understand. Another suggest, in the scenery world, practice anything you have never done before, off you layout. If you have not done ballesting of track, get a piece of scrap wood and track and play with that. Same would go for mountains, tunnels etc. You can make your tunnel portals out of cardboard for the practice.
Scenery is something that I have gotten into in the past five years with the help of a good friend. Greg loves scenery more than any other part of model railroading and working with him for just a short time helped me to learn quickly and now I basically work by myself.
Bob
Dusten,
Here is a picture taken from HO/HOn3 railroad. I would have liked to show you scenery from my On30 railroad, but nothing is started yet. This type of scenery can be learned it a very short period of time. Just try to find someone who knows what they are doing. The actually forming of the trees and rocks, etc is a quick learning curve.
(http://ebtbob.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/14613/DSC00094.jpg)
Bob
For some reason this scene look familiar.
Just saying Hey Bob from VA
Ken
Quote from: glennk28 on April 07, 2007, 08:55:09 PM
I was going to open a new topic but you guys already started it- Wha I would like to see Bachmann make in On30 (I'll buy several and re-gauge them) is the ET&WNC piggyback car that they did in G Scale some years back. That ought to be an easy one since the design work is already in-house. gj
Or build one, they are simple enough. George Gilbert did an article on them in RMC back in the 1990s, HOn3, but the techniques would be the same.
EDIT:
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=RMC&MO=10&YR=1994&output=3&sort=A
EDIT 2.0:
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=NGSL&MO=5&YR=2000&output=3&sort=A
I see from Railway Preservation's site that the book, "Little, Old and Slow" has been republished by the Railway Museum of Pennsylvania. This is a history of the Lancaster, Oxford and Southern RR, an early narrow gauge in southeastern Pennsylvania. There are still a few traces of the road to be found, long after its 1919 abandonment. This includes the gas-mechanical car that the Strasburg RR occasionally operates for charters. The car was built by the LO&S to narrow gauge, then went the Grasse Valley RR in New York where it was standard-gauged.
I have drawn scale models of coal fired steam powerd models for On30. As you gussed it is of the Ten-Wheeler. These trains are planned to operate under a half a pound of psi, also I have attempted to build one of the models and just about succeded with it; guss what? The backhead blew of the boiler under a pound of psi and almost hit my dad's Triumph Spitfire. I really need help building it but I do not have the matirials to build it with. I used pluming fictures and copper sheets to form the back head and the front smoke box.
Does anyone have any news on Tweetsie Railroad? I have heard that they are playin the cards right and wont have to relocate.It'll be sad to see the the railroad relocate or dissapear. :'(
I just saw that Tweetsie has gotten a agreement to allow them to operate at least through 2010. Beyond that things are still up in the air.
Re: Live Steam. That is not something to take on lightly. Even at low (say 20-25 lb. pressure) you still have a rolling explosive device. Boilers must be built to withstand at least 50% more than the anticipated operating pressure. All seams have to be sealed either by welding or silver soldering. Regular solder will melt at operating temperatures. On30 is probably too small to do live steam well (though the OO model from Britain shows it can be done with a lot of engineering). For live steam, I'd stick to Large scale models or bigger.
LOL. I melted the back head on by sweating it together, also the engine was leaking and whell the thing blew the back head off becaues I have not got the parts right now to put the injector in. I have got the drawings.
I think that the hoppers should carry ethier the ET&WNC road name or the Craneberry Mines road name also I think the rolling stock should carry the Linville RR and ET&WNC and the Doe River Gordge road names.
B-Mann
Here are the specks for the 10-Wheeler!
Spec number: C-4169
Type: 10-26D332
Cylinders: 16x22
Boiler diameter: 54", extended wagon top boiler
Firebox dimensions: 95 15/16" long x 23 3/8" wide
Flues: 188 flue tubes, 2" diameter, 12' 1 3/4" long
Heating surface: 116 square feet
Grate area: 15.5 square feet
Ratio to heat surface: 1/84
Wheelbase: driving 10'
Total engine 19' 6"
Engine and tender 46'
Weight on drivers: 80,050 lbs
Wt on front truck: 18,750 lbs
Engine weight: 98,800 lbs
Tender weight: 60,000 lbs loaded
Coal capacity: 4 tons
Water capacity: 3,000 gallons
Tractive effort: 19,100 lbs
Ratio of Adhesion: 4.2
This is all from the Johnson City Depot at www.johnsoncitydepot.com
Quote from: Dusten on May 08, 2007, 09:09:03 PM
LOL. I melted the back head on by sweating it together, also the engine was leaking and whell the thing blew the back head off becaues I have not got the parts right now to put the injector in. I have got the drawings.
NEVER first test a boiler under steam, pressurize it with water (no spectacular failures) and then maybe compressed air. I assume you are using a hard (silver) solder, regular plumbing stuff will melt if hit by flame even from alcohol, nevermind gas or coal. I have found that MAPP gas is the best for this, just used some for the superheater on a pot boiler loco here.
Having onwed and been around small scale live steamers, I am really interested in this miniature coal fired loco.
Where do you stand on the chassis? Got one running under compressed air? Photos?
Quote from: Dusten on May 08, 2007, 09:09:03 PM
LOL. I melted the back head on by sweating it together, also the engine was leaking and whell the thing blew the back head off becaues I have not got the parts right now to put the injector in. I have got the drawings.
Remember the big bang is not a theory when it comes to live steam :o :o.
Andre'
The plubming fictures are brass, the loco was fired under charcoal soaked in some lighter fluied and I put a serenge full of water in the boiler and then screwed the brass cab on. I sweat welded the backhead on and the smoke box, also it had copper tubes in for the smoke flues. It got hot enough to boil the water into steam but sadly I have not got the injector built and I don't have the micro chips for the rest of the functions, as well I have not built the pistons or the throttle and reverser. Then BOOM! :'( ??? ::) ;D
By the way most of the drawings are secret as well as how and what iI am using, I told you just abou 1% of what is being built. This is pretty advance for a 15 year old. 8) :-X
Quote from: Dusten on May 11, 2007, 10:51:22 AM
The plubming fictures are brass, the loco was fired under charcoal soaked in some lighter fluied and I put a serenge full of water in the boiler and then screwed the brass cab on. I sweat welded the backhead on and the smoke box, also it had copper tubes in for the smoke flues. It got hot enough to boil the water into steam but sadly I have not got the injector built and I don't have the micro chips for the rest of the functions, as well I have not built the pistons or the throttle and reverser. Then BOOM! :'( ??? ::) ;D
By the way most of the drawings are secret as well as how and what iI am using, I told you just abou 1% of what is being built. This is pretty advance for a 15 year old. 8) :-X
So it has an internal fire box and flues, in On30, fired with charcoal? How are you drafting it? Mechanical or steam?
I had my first live steam models around the age of ten many years ago....
I don't have fire bricks in if that is what you are asking. The egines are gonna have working outside pistons on each side. The fire box is under the boiler and it has coal to to burn. The fire box is wider than the wheels right now because the fire wont burn well in a narrow size like the one you see on the models. I am not tring to compete for age around steam or any thing, I am only saying that you don't here many youth out in the model railroad hobbie or the railroad, you also dont here many kids wonting to improve model railroads. What do you mean when you say mechanical or steam; I plan on running the models as if they were the real deal but smaller, I have no plans for using cranks and and gears and shafts unless it is a shay.
No brick, but that does bring up another question as far as insulation. A late uncle had a 3/4" scale 4-4-0 model chock full of asbestos ::).
With your work on your internally fired boiler design, I am surprised you are not following on what I am asking how you are drafting it. So, I am assuming you will have to use a fan (mechanical) or the like, a steam draft would be too small for a loco with that small of a diameter boiler when firing prior to operation when the exhaust can take over?
Honestly, I am amazed you are taking the coal route, a lot of work tough to get right and get it to fire, not like butane or meths (which I prefer). As far as the firebox, it sounds like it will look like a Wooten design when done.
Please, post photos!
Like I said, I am only 15, and I still have a lot to learn about all the workings on the steam engine. I did not know what you ment on draft, I thought you ment the heat draft which way the heat went; yes I am using a fan for my loco, the 2 are located in the tender. And yes it is mechanical, also I do not know what a wooten design is, you'll have to show me; speaking of showing I have no pictures to present because I do not own one of those cameras that can put pictures on the web.
Quote from: Dusten on May 11, 2007, 07:09:12 PM
Like I said, I am only 15, and I still have a lot to learn about all the workings on the steam engine. I did not know what you ment on draft, I thought you ment the heat draft which way the heat went; yes I am using a fan for my loco, the 2 are located in the tender. And yes it is mechanical, also I do not know what a wooten design is, you'll have to show me; speaking of showing I have no pictures to present because I do not own one of those cameras that can put pictures on the web.
Here is the wooten design, larger grate area, sounds like what you are doing (not the camelback part tho).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelback_type_locomotive#The_Wootten_Firebox
Good luck, and you might want to find another live steam person in your area for some assistance.
Not to pesster Big-B, But can you get a update on the 4-6-0?
Dear Dusten,
What 4-6-0? Passing along a request does not make it an active project. If it should become so you may be sure I'll let you know!
Have fun!
the Bach-man
I don't want to see this thread shot down in flames. So what in the east have we not found? I for one want bachmann to make some nice little O-scale figures, I know about other places and manufactures but I would like some models to fit in the cab of a of a On30 loco instead of having to do something to make it fit in the cab. So what I am saying or asking is for some O-scale crew figures, it would look nice, also I have see G-scale models of Sherman Pippen of the ET&WNC and other crews produced by some model company and wonder if bachmann can make real train crews form other railroads like Sherman Pippen, C.Y Crumly, and others off the ET&WNC RR line and maybe some off of other historic narrow gauge lines.
The real issue with figures is that they don't bend like we do. Getting into the cab of a real locomotive, especially a deckless type, took a certain amount of squeezing, leg crossing, and other acrobatic moves. A cast metal engineer or fireman doesn't have that luxury. Therefore, surgery is usually required. I have had to cut the legs off figures in order to get them to sit in the seat properly. More than figures, though, I wish Bachmann or someone would do some proper 1/4" scale autos from the '30's and '40's. I'm tired of having to compromise with the 1/43 or 1/50 stuff that is generally available.
How about a soft plastic that can bend like them dolls you see for kids on camercials and mess. Or a rubber like compund were you can bend them.
Who is going to the 2011 national narrow gauge convention? It is being heald in Tweetsie country in Hickory NC. And who ever is going to the 2007 NNGC please tell me what was all there in the 2ft country.
Can anyone help me with scaleing? I am building a replica of the bachmann On30 2-6-0, here is the problem. The boiler is bigger than the bachmann 2-6-0s boiler. Here is the real problem, what does the number in 1-4th scale mean, dos'nt mean 1in.=4ft in scale? Note this train I am building is to run under steam.
Dusten, your question is a bit vague. 1/4, or quarter scale, would be 3 inches = 1 foot. Building a Bachmann-style Mogul at that scale would give you a loco and tender about 10 feet long. I suspect what you're asking about is 1/4 INCH scale, or 1:48, also called O scale. The Bachmann models are built to 1/4" scale (1/4" = 1 foot), and run on HO gauge track, which is a bit over 30" gauge in 1/4" scale.
Thanks for the info. Well I guss this topic is dead. Talk to ya'll latter.
Yes, I'm necro-posting, however this IS relevant.
West Virginia had it's share of narrow gauge.
Mann's Creek (interchanged with the C&O)
West Virginia Midland (interchanged with the Western MD)
West Virginia and Pittsburgh (later B&O-owned)
Cairo and Kanawha
West Virginia Central (standard gauged and merged into the Western MD)
Any of these lines could be modernized to the 40s-50s (like I would do with the WVM which went out of business in the early 30s as a common carrier, but continued to exist as the Pardee and Curtin Lumber Co).
My WVM would use the oxide red EBT hoppers. Should the Bach-man decide to bless us with a steel EBT type boxcar, it will get those too.
Never thought this topic would see the light of day again ;D. Could you give me a little more info on the WVM narrow gauge?
Dusten
Sure Dustin, no problem. Info on the WVM can be found at www.Taplines.com and FYI, I believe it's a cousin to your beloved Eat Taters & Wear No Clothes.
The Midland interchanged with the Western MD at Webster Springs, WV and the B&O at Holly Junction, WV. She was owned by Pardee & Curtin lumber co and the P&C existed into the middle 1930s. I believe Bachman's G scale Shay was P&C, therefore with a logo change, it would be correct for WVM as well. Taplines has the complete WVM loco roster.
You can also get some limited information on the RR from the Mountain State Logging RR Historical Association and the Western Maryland Railway Historical Society.
The link you have provided says it is under construction? Is that suppose to be like that.
Thanks
Dusten
Try http://www.taplines.net/ (http://www.taplines.net/). Great site.
I'd most like to see a post-war White Pass modified US army Mikado, especially #192 and #196 in White Pass as well as Dollywood (192) and Tweetsie (196) schemes. However, I would also be happy with the White Pass 70 series mikados in White Pass and Dollywood Schemes (#70 and soon-to-be completed #71) or an EBT Mikado.
Really I see no sense in making the D&RGW K-class mikados (other than to make more affordable and readily availible versions), as Mountain Model Imports has already produced the K-27, K-28, and K-36 with the K-37 on the way.
NGSouth
Obscure:
The Hayt's Corners, Ovid & Willard was a narrow gauge line in the Finger Lakes region of New York and later aquired (and standard gauged) by the Lehigh Valley. I happened to dig up one picture to see they had an 0-6-0 with a slope-back tender. Something like that would make an interesting and different model, presuming drawings or good photos of it could be located. Unfortunately the book I found the photo in doesn't even note the builder of the locomotive.
Backwoods Miniatures offer 0-6-0, 2-6-0 and 2-6-2 tank engines (kits as well as RTR) based on a Bachmann H0 drive and a kit of a slope back tender. I got a 2-6-0 and the tender kit, which make nice little mogul.
Regards Dieter
I'd kind of like to see Bachman do an NF210, the EMD units built for the Newfoundland Railways. Although they were built to 42" gauge, the 6" or so difference per side shouldn't be that noticable, they have a big plain frame rail that hides a lot of the trucks and so on from view. So it might be fairly simple to tool up with an existing HO drive - the cab and hood are adaptations of standard EMD stuff. I suppose with a drive that copies the Athearn/P2K axle setup, with split axles on a plastic center section, it could be made so if someone wanted to widen it to 36" or 42" they could do so fairly easily, also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_NF210
They have some international marketability, too, as after CN abandoned the line some were sold to Chile, Nicuragua and Nigeria.
And the Newfoundland Railway itself had a lot of interesting narrow gauge equipment that existed nowhere else. Steel Santa-Fe style cabooses, long distance passenger cars, steamers that look like slightly scaled down standard gauge engines... worth checking out.