I think Bachmann's lack of On30 Christmas releases let the steam out of any remaining On30 momemtum and really let their retailers down when the retail hobby industry needed a shot in the arm. Items that should have been released in time for Christmas:
Both 4-4-0's with sound,
Upgraded 2-6-0 with DCC and sound,
A long caboose (or any new rolling stock.)
Hopefully next year will be more interesting.
-James Thomas
I got a railbus for christmas. So I didnt have a problem.
Don'r be so quick to blame Bachmann. We are working with a world-wide economy. My neighbor's son works for a container company and he tells me that there are containers sitting at ports all over the world because the owners can't get insurance. Besides making deliveries unsure, the prices will eventually rise.
I was about to express a concern with a new post, but I'll tie it to this one instead.
I agree Bachmann could have made a more concentrated effort to keep the On30 movement going strong.
My concern is when I stopped by my local hobby shop about 4 weeks ago, I saw no new On30 products at all. I expressed my concern to the owner and he told me "The On30 stuff did not have a price point worth carrying any longer." I also note that the 2 Hobby Lobby's in my area do not have any On30 sets either.
We continued with a discussion as to the statement he made to me 6 years ago that On30 is the fastest growing section in the hobby. He now claims the large scale and O scale ( mostly due to Lionel having the Polar Express contract ) are growing faster. He also thought the Christmas village era was fading, and people are now going more to the train under the tree type of layout for Christmas.
Bachmann is by far the leader in the On30 movement their products are excellent and their prices can't compare. With this comes the awsome responsibility to keep the interest high while keeping the prices under control. I also understand the bad economy, I just became unemployed a couple weeks ago myself. I don't run DCC nor do I really want to pay for it.
Any other opinions on this soon to be hot topic?
Enjoy,
Barry
If I recall correctly, the "Christmas" releases over the last 2-3 years were originally scheduled to ship somewhere in the early fall, and got delayed. It worked out good for me, and my wife, who's Christmas shopping was greatly simplified those years, but I didn't think it was intentional on Bachmann's part. The 4-6-0 was originally scheduled for delivery in late November, if I recall correctly, so the delay until the Spring would be pretty much normal. [Assuming it does arrive in the Spring, of course. Here's hoping.]
And this year, I got a sweater! Seriously. A very nice sweater. Still, I missed the train.
Manager
I got an outside frame Forney with sound for Christmas, so I was happy. Now if they could release some Porters with dcc & sound...!
Trends come and go in modeling. I remember when Sn3 was all the rage.
Like anything else, the hot scale, On30, has to cool some sooner or later.
I disagree though that this was not a good year for On30. My kids gave me a OF 4-4-0 and it is currently being modified!
I plan to eventually obtain one of the rail buses and trailing coaches - that was a pleasant surprise!
The 4-6-0 is not my cup of tea, but I am certain the bashers will go to town on that locomotive and for those who have long awaited this model, I am sure they will be happy.
I am certain the 4-6-0 and rail bus will make a lot of On3 guys happy as well and will be widened out. Not too sure if the OF 4-4-0 is a candidate for that sort of surgery.
Three powered models announced in one year and two actually available for use! Not too bad.
As to the rising costs - I would imagine that the global spike in oil prices did not help the cost of raw plastic, paint, lubricant, etc. any for manufacturers like Bachmann.
Now, if Mr. Riley and the Bachmann will only deliver the long awaited Heisler!
Guys-no way: we can´t blame the Bachmann folks - they have given us a pretty big number of new material. Personally I love the new outside frame 4-4-0 most and of course I will get myself a 4-6-0 to do some kind of conversion into a RGS Style Engine...
The Railbus is not my kind of love, but OK - lots of other people are happy with it.
And I´m sure - the Bachmann folks have a lot of really neat things in the hat,
as the Bach-man said: We may know more by February...
Maybe there will be something GEARED for us Loggers out there...?!?!?!?!
That would make my day...
A HEISLER. Of course. ;) ;) ;)
Cheers+HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all!!!
:)Tom :)
Let's all stand back and consider how fortunate we in On30 are to have the number of offerings we all have, compared to any other Narrow Gauge scale. HOn3, only a few new locos that run well, Sn3 controlled mostly by one company, with very nice, but very expensive locos, On3, well those guys are just jealous of all the RTR locos we have, and Nn3, been there, lost the eyesite and funds. Bachmann
has introduced more people to narrow gauge through G,F,and O scale than perhaps any other company. I have been in all these other scales and am very glad to have all these options, without any conversions or super expensive brass. Can't thank Bachmann enough.
David Coates
Last new item released with sound was the Forney -- 2 years ago?
I'm not bashing Bachmann (I love On30); my point is that they have lost the momentum they had going at a time when the hobby industry needed a shot in the arm.
The Railbus and OF 2-4-0 are interesting, but those of us that got hooked on sound (by Bachmann) have had nothing new.
All I wanted for Christamas was a 2-6-2, a 2-6-2, a 2-6-2 (come on, sing it with me). Seriously, a Prairie modeled after WW&F #6, or even one modeled after SR&RL #24 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for Bachmann, considering all of the mechanisms they already have in production. One can always hope................. John Tumolo Britcarfan@aol.com
I think the OF 4-4-0 could become a 2-6-0 or 2-6-2 just by tooling a new chassis - it might not exactly match a Baldwin catalog engine, but it would look right.
I think 2008 was a pretty darn good year for On30. I realize that some folks can't bing themselves to see beyond their own self interest and the ever-present "I want it and I want it now" way of thinking, but I saw a number of great new On30 products released during the year and I still see--despite a world economy that is in the toilet and perhaps about to be flushed--darn good pricing if/when one is willing to shop around a bit.
One nice thing about the pre-Internet era was that we didn't have to be exposed to whiners while pursuing our hobby interests. They were there, I suppose, but in smaller numbers and with virtually zero visibility or impact.
OGReditor makes a good point. We tend to be people who expect instant gratification.
Bachmann does a good job of not introducing a new product that does not exist beyond artwork (unlike some other O gauge manufacturers I could name that publish two catalogs yearly!)
Bachmann does such a good job with the On30 product that we just want more. It's kind of like a flavor of ice cream that's only made for Christmas, but we want it year around.
Anyway, that's my story!
PS. Those that subscribe to O Gauge Railroading will probably see the new products before other magazines review them ;D
I was VERRY disapointed :'( to not see any thing Colorado but it's probaly a good thing so that I can focus on getting more cars instead which I need more any way.
Frisco: Actually I would have been entushiastical to see something Colorado, but well...
Would be great if Bachmann would think of all those D&RGW/RGS/C&S Modellers out there. Of course. There´s so much to produce. :P :P :P
Cheers, Tom
Personally I can't believe the number of totally unnecessary negative posts here.
Comments like these are just sure to get Bachmann thinking ...."Well stuff 'em, then - we won't bother".
I have it on good authority from Bachmann's 'inner sanctum' that there will be plenty of new On30 goodies to come in the future.
So let's try encouraging them instead of moaning. Remember we're in a World recession right now and no manufacturer can be blamed for being a little cautious at the present time. Model train manufacturers particularly so, since in a recession people tend to spend their shrinking dollar on 'essentials' and not on 'extras' and hobbies.
Good on 'yer Bachmann, I say - and very many thanks for continuing to promote On30 in the positive way that you do. Long may it continue.
Don Mason
(Founder - The 7mm Narrow Gauge Association and Owner - Maine NG Modelers Forum Yahoo Group).
If you're doing a favour for someone and all they do is complain about what you are doing, then maybe "We'll stuff 'em then - we won't bother" is an appropriate response. However, Bachmann isn't doing us "favours," Bachmann is running a business.
Any of you that have been in business know that it is nice to hear good things about what you are doing. But you also know that you learn more about how to improve your business by listening to your critics -- those are the people some of you call "negative" or "whiners." The negs and whiners are much more valuable to Bachmann than those of you that think everything is wonderful.
Yes, the world is in recession. But there are enough of us that will continue to buy model trains if there are things to buy. Not likely, though, that we are going to buy more of the same -- hence my original point that there was not much new On30 this year for Christmas. (And absolutely nothing with sound.)
When times are tough. retailers need new things to sell. When everyone cuts back, the downward spiral continues. There are already too few hobby shops.
Don't just sit there; go out and buy some On30 trains. But what?
-James Thomas
The outside frame 4-4-0 and the railbus, with the 4-6-0 on the way, this compares quite well with other Christmas deliveries by Bachmann. generally there has been only one new loco a year. True no new rolling stock, but with the new locos perhaps this was not surprising.
Sound, some like sound and others, such as myself, do not want it and are not prepared to pay for it. If a slow down in sales means Bachmann doesn't want to have both sound and non- sound versions of the same loco then non- sound is likely as sound can be added as after market. I agree with the idea that perhaps Bachmann could work with Soundtraxx (or whoever) so that very easy to fit plug and play sound units could be available for all Bachmann ON30 locos.
In short, Bachmann can't please every-one all the time, some love Colorado, others never want to see another Colorado model again, some want more logging, mining and other little locos, others want larger main line locos, and so on. There were about the same number of new items as usual for Christmas, they may not have been to you taste, but then the forthcoming 4-6-0 is not to mine. Doesn't mean that Bachmann shouldn't make it however.
Hamish
hello and a Happy New Year to all!
I also agree , not only is Bachmann doing a magnificent job producing excellent " CHEAP and WELL DETAILED MODELS" for everyone to enjoy , I personaly dont like every thing produced. But that is the beauty of the hobby something for every one. I model Australia Narrow gauge freelance and at last count have 65 peices of rolling stock both locos and wagons all of which are Bachmann Products. I am sure this year will again produce some nice surprises for us and many will be pleased some not but lets be very thankful for what Bachmann has and is acheiving for the average narrow Gauge Modeller
Again
WELL DONE BACHMANN
Geoff
I agree,Bachmann continues to do a great job supplying the On30 market - remember it is little over a decade old! For those of us who have been in On30 for a long time (for me over 50 years) just having anything ready made of this quality is almost too good to be true. I, and I am sure, many other would prefer to see a secure market established with a SLOW, STEADY, stream of products coming on a regular basis rather than of flood of new stuff with not enough buyers to keep Bachmann satisfied with sales volume. Be gratefull and accept that so far Bachmann is doing a great job marketting a niche segment of the hobby.
Well said, friends!
That´s what I tried to say: Bachmann has brought us a respactable mass of beautiful models, in most cases good runners. It´s fine when we express, which ideas we do have with On30, but we never,never,never can blame Bachmann. These folks do a great job! ;)
We got to keep in mind what would be, if they never had this idea: There would be no On30 at all! :( :( :(
Sure, as Geoff said, there are models which I like or which have a "must have appeal" and there are others which are not fitting to my RR´s theme or which don´t catch my eye (which is, in my case, the Railcar - others love it, I don´t need one) But this is nothing bad, the Bachmann folks can´t always make a thing for everyone. This is impossible.
I join in to say: BACHMANN, WELL DONE!
PLEASE KEEP BUSY - WE LOVE YOUR MODELS!!!
Cheers, Tom
James Thomas wrote:
"Don't just sit there; go out and buy some On30 trains. But what?"
---------------------
Well, all I can say is that if you're having trouble finding new and very interesting products in On30, you're sure not looking very hard.
Quote from: John Tumolo on January 01, 2009, 08:37:52 PM
All I wanted for Christamas was a 2-6-2, a 2-6-2, a 2-6-2 (come on, sing it with me). Seriously, a Prairie modeled after WW&F #6, or even one modeled after SR&RL #24 shouldn't be too much of a stretch for Bachmann, considering all of the mechanisms they already have in production. One can always hope................. John Tumolo Britcarfan@aol.com
John,
Think more along the lines of EBT #11 or a logging 2-6-2! Although, I must admit I do love the Maine two foot OF 2-6-2's as well, too many darn choices. :-P
-Nathan
Hey Guys,
I just want to explain my 1st post on this topic. I am not complaining
about the On30 products being offered to us, rather questioning the AVAILABILITY of the products to the public.
I live near 2 cities of almost 100,000 people ea. which lies between 2 much larger cities, I must now travel, close to an hour, to these 2 larger cities to purchase ANY On30 products from a retailer or hobby shop.
This Christmas season I waited & watched all the stores who carried
On30 in the past & none put any on the shelves this year. No sets from Retailer's & no sets or other products to the couple LHS's who always carried some On30.
This truly concerns me, and it doesn't vote well for the future of the On30
line of products. One may say it's starting to fade away by lack of AVAILABILITY. I truly hope I am wrong.
still try to enjoy,
Barry
Quote from: BIG BEAR on January 10, 2009, 07:37:04 PM
Hey Guys,
I just want to explain my 1st post on this topic. I am not complaining
about the On30 products being offered to us, rather questioning the AVAILABILITY of the products to the public.
I live near 2 cities of almost 100,000 people ea. which lies between 2 much larger cities, I must now travel, close to an hour, to these 2 larger cities to purchase ANY On30 products from a retailer or hobby shop.
This Christmas season I waited & watched all the stores who carried
On30 in the past & none put any on the shelves this year. No sets from Retailer's & no sets or other products to the couple LHS's who always carried some On30.
This truly concerns me, and it doesn't vote well for the future of the On30
line of products. One may say it's starting to fade away by lack of AVAILABILITY. I truly hope I am wrong.
still try to enjoy,
Barry
Barry,
It all depends where you live and what/where the shops are that you're going to. On30 is not as mainstream as HO or that 3-rail stuff and the stores you are going to sound to me like big box type stores that don't think it's worth it to have it because the people that shop there, other than you, are not interested in On30. Try checking local train shows and also check online shops. I, for one, specialize in On30 through my website (www.nateslightironhobbies.com) and there are many others, like myself, that are On30 modelers as well as retailers that are promoting On30. I can name a few more online stores, that I can think of off the top of my head right now, that sell Bachmann On30 models as well and they will all ship directly to you...
Peterboro RR
Warrior Run Loco Works
Crusader Rail Services
Check them out, they're all nice people that will be more than welcome to help you out.
-Nathan
The issue of Local Hobby Shops is something else altogether. My closest is an hour away, and he has never carried anything On30, or O-scale for that matter. And I have tried to visit hobby shops on different trips, but have almost always been disappointed with the On30 offerings. [The big exception was Caboose Hobbies in Denver. That was fantastic.] For the most part, I know what I'm looking for, and the odds of finding that exact item is slim at any store, so I might as well order it from Caboose, or one of the On30 specialists like Nathan.
Perhaps what you are seeing, Barry, is the evolution of On30, along with the devolution of the local hobby shop. Perhaps the mass market appeal of On30 is fading along with the "Christmas Village" concept, so you are less likely to see it in large stores. The 2-6-0, along with the passenger and freight cars, fit this mass market. But there is a large group of serious modelers, for whom the more recent Bachmann releases have more appeal, with high levels of detail, metal construction, and higher prices. Perhaps the shift you are seeing is a reflection of a shift in what is produced in On30, away from the Christmas tree crowd, and toward the more serious modeler. And that shift is being reflected in where On30 is sold, away from Local Hobby Shops and retail stores, and toward specialty online retailers, and the large hobby stores whose volume allows for better discounts.
Also, I'm wondering how much of the model train market is represented by On30. It can't be that much, compared to HO and N. Has anyone ever seen numbers on this?
Gary
I'm Happy! :) :) :)
Quote from: James Thomas on December 30, 2008, 12:15:23 AM
I think Bachmann's lack of On30 Christmas releases let the steam out of any remaining On30 momemtum and really let their retailers down when the retail hobby industry needed a shot in the arm. Items that should have been released in time for Christmas:
Both 4-4-0's with sound,
Upgraded 2-6-0 with DCC and sound,
A long caboose (or any new rolling stock.)
Hopefully next year will be more interesting.
-James Thomas
I second all of the suggestions listed, except for needing everything to come sound equipped. Just DCC equipped is all we really need so those that don't want sound don't have to pay for it. I think that to expect Bachmann to produce both versions is asking a bit much, since there are at least a few after market sound decoders available. We could definitely use a "modernized" Mogul and better looking caboose.
I can appreciate some people expecting (hoping) that Bachmann will release something new in On30 just before Christmas and then being disappointed. I think we should all be grateful that Bachmann does support us throughout the year with some fabulous new releases. I don't know how many On30 modellers there are out there but as another person has commented on this forum that HO and N would be far more popular. Companies at any time and especially in the current economic climate cannot afford to release any new product only to find it only sells slowly leaving them with large amounts of capital tied up in the development, production and warehousing costs.
Regarding the lack of On30 at your local hobby shop. Have you asked the shop owners to get in a particular model? You may have to pay a deposit but that is only fair as there are some who will talk up about making a purchase only to renege when the item becomes available.
My local hobby shop in Oz does have a small amount of On30 but it is buried under the sheer volume of N and HO Scale items which are his main sellers. I regularly give him a typed list of my On30 needs and he will order these items in for me. Sometimes it is frustrating (we are still waiting for the rail bus that was released early last year) but the anticipation waiting for delivery can also be a good thing.
Thanks Bachmann we would be lost without you.
David Mewes