Dear Friends,
On the old board, there was a discussion re: how to choose an air brush. I am now getting ready to buy one, but do not have the old thread saved.
Q. My choices are Aztek, Pasche or Badger, vacuum fed, double stage. Any info how to choose without actually getting my hands on them? The air brush will be used primarily for minor paint jobs and weathering. Does water based vs. oil based paint matter much?
Thank you in advance!
Best, Jack
If you are just getting started a single stage brush is easier to use. Water makes the easiest clean up, but many swear on oil based. I'm not familiar with Aztek, but Dadger and Pasche are both good brands.
Now, if I could only find my:
a. air compresser
b. air brushes
Gene
I use a Badger 350 with a whirlwind compresser - 10 years old & going strong.
Some folks like Pasche better. It's a matter of opinon.
As for paint - I rarely use water based paint. I like Floquil & Scalecoat BUT use a respirator!!! They are toxic.
I have, for many many, years, used both double and single action Badgers with a diaphram compressor. If I may say so myself, I have been complimented many times on the quality of my paint jobs. So in addition to any talent I may have, these airbrushes must work fine.
I have the model 200 and model 150, both are internal mix w/jars, again one is double action, one single action.
As to paint, my experiance is just the oposite from Gene. After trying it one time, I will never put acrylic (water based) paint in an air brush ever again.
I will admit that this is partly my own habits, but, acrylic paints are plastic that harden once exposed to the air. It is imposible to control their dring time, and they dry fast, so they harden in the air brush if you are not a fast worker. Which I am not. Water does not slow or redesolve acrylic paint, it mearly disrupts its adheasion if it is only partly cured. I know they make special solvents for acrylics, but my experiance still is I can not work fast enough to keep it from drying in the airbrush.
Solvent based paints work differently, dry more slowly and drying times can be controled with solvent and paint can be redesolved before it is cured. I have only disassembed and cleaned my air brushes about once evey two or three years when using them heavily. I simply soak the head in solvent and flush them out after each use. Rarly needing more extensive cleaning.
My one experiance wish acrylics gummed up the air brush and required complete disassembly to clean it - never again.
Sheldon
since youre just starting out, a paasche ''h''set is an excellent investment, its a single action external mix with 3 diferent tips.... once youve used it and gotten a feel for how an airbrush works, you can move up to a ''vl'' set, its an internal mix with 3 needles to regulate flow ,either set are excellent brushes.
i like testors enamel, hate the testors acrylics. i also use badger accuflex acrylic, it works very well and ive never had it gum up either of my brushes.
as for compressors...dont be fooled or bullied into buying an expensive ''airbrush'' compressor, like a badger or similar ''namebrand''....go get a $100 campbell hausfield with a 5 gal tank at walmart.....you will be able to regulate your airflow much better and you wont be paying outrageous prices for a brand name.
small adendum....i love my vl set....excellent for fine control and detail work....but i still use the h set for spraying of large areas and spraying glosscote\dullcote laquer. just makes life easier having 2 brushes.
I outgrew my single action siphon feed airbrushes very quickly and gave them away. I thought I'd need them to cut my teeth on but they were actually a wasted step, in my view. Dual action airbrushes are not at all complicated; you push down for air and pull back for color. A little experimenting with needle sizes and tips is helpful. Though I often use my dual action siphon feed units, my preference is my dual action gravity feed model.
I agree with Sheldon that waterborne acrylics notoriously dry in the airbrush (or touchup gun, for that matter) but I still have a use for them. I use POLLY Scale.
I also agree with LD that an airbrush compressor is not entirely necessary. Campbell Hausfeld oil-free models are an economical alternative and they will operate other hobby-oriented air powered equipment such as touch up guns and brad nailers. You need a moisture trap if you buy one of these. I think they're on the loud side compared to units designed for airbrushing but they do have some quiet models in their upper end.
Brand is not as important as design. You want a durable unit with machined metal components. Any one of the brands you listed would be an excellent choice. Over the years I've learned that some units are produced in machine shops and assembled by the companies you mentioned. You might be surprised if you pay a visit to airbrushcity.com. They are the first manufacturer of the majority of their products and they buy from the same parts distributors as some of the major brands do, then assemble and market them under their own brand. The prices are very good and so is the service.
Craig
I have been using a Paasche "H" airbrush for 25 or 30 years--quite satisfied. I also have a "VL" which I recommend for fancy weathering effects, but not for general-purpose painting. I have used the H on models from HOn3 to G.
As to the compressor--forget the little diaphragm-ltype ones sold for hobby use. Get the Campbell-Hausfeld, or a DeVilbiss, or see what is on sale at Sears or Harbor Freight Tools. By all means, get an oil and water trap, as well as a regulator if the compressor does not have one. "Snap" connectors are handy. I'd go for at least a 1hp compressor, with a 3 to 5 gallon tank. It will be les expensive to operate in the long run.
gj
Thank you, all. Very good stuff to chew and digest. Also in the planning stage for a 12' x 17' HO layout, my first, so I have lots of stuff to do before the actual construction starts.
Best, Jack
Dear Jack,
Just to make your decision more difficult, I really like the Aztek. It is both single and dual action, and the tips are easily interchangeable, relatively inexpensive, and much easier to clean. Check one out in the micro Mark catalog.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
I have to go with Mr. B here on this one....I have an Aztek as well and absolutely love it. They make single and dual action versions.
I have yet to have anything attack the body or nozzles. This is one from my auto days...all paint...no decals.....all Aztek. ;)
I called this A-Salt1....(Assault 1)....it's a jet powered 1964 Dodge A100 salt flats racer.
Wonder what on old Bachmann F Unit would look like in flames....lmao.
Sid
(http://members.shaw.ca/woundedbear2k/Assault1.jpg)
Sheldon;
In my collection of musical tools, I own several Gibson Les Paul Customs, a couple of Fender guitars, and two Ibanez guitars; You know the one I like to sit down with? AN old Washburn! All this is saying is that I think by and large, an airbrush brand-and even type-is subjective; as is all artforms and associated equipment. My personal choice of weapon is a Paasche, both single and double action. I own both. In and of themselves, they do not make me any better or worse a painter than the guy who owns a badger or an Aztec; just the proud owner of a couple of high-end brushes. To all out there who are so inclined to use an airbrush, I will say that very few-if any- of us are born with the ability to just jump in and do high-end work-it takes practice and the accumulation of mistakes as a learning process. I do encourage all to peruse the selection of brushes out there, and simply get the one that grabs you, learn it, and start using it. Oh, don't just do model work with it; do other things. Do some pictures, some stenciling work, etc. All of this makes for an accumulative knowledge and the acquisition of a real comfort and confidence zone with this tool. A long time ago, Floquil had done a book on airbrushing. It wasn't a particularly large or all encompassing book; but it did give a really comprehensive introduction to this skill. I havn't seen it lately. T'would be a shame if it were no longer available. HEAR THAT, RPM INDUSTRIES?????
RIch
Rich,
I agree completely, except maybe about the artwork part. I have many talents, but free hand art work is not one of them.
I was just sharing my experiances. I bought my first Badger because it was afordable. I bought the double action because I was in a business where I had access to buy it wholesale. My main point was that I never needed to buy any others.
And I still have a copy of that helpful little book from Badger.
Sheldon
Sheldon;
Yeah; whatever a person is comfortable with is going to be a good thing. The artwork thing is obviously elective here, but my contention is that exposure to the other aspects of painting are going to be more or less beneficial to the average guy who's in this hobby.
Like you, I am not prone to painting, though I did take some courses in art. Not as good as most others in my class, it did give me some incentive and confidence to pursue deeper this part of the hobby.
Reading what guys like John Pryke has to say about weathering engines, etc, is also going to help considerably. John is an artist in his own right, and with the other contrivutions from others just as talented as he, there is a tremendous amount of positive exposure to be had here to help with this facet of the hobby.
Somewhere in the pile of stuff I have acquired over the past twenty five or so years, is that book from Floquil...
Have a good one;
Rich
MicroMark is a great source for airbrush & supplies.
You may find AirBrush Action in your bookstore. It is a bimonthly magazine you may find in the hobby/craft section. It will give you other ideas to use your airbrush. They even sponsor seminars but that can be $$$. Some art turns into a business.
Badger, Paasche, & Aztek all make good quality brushes. You may find cheap Testors airbrush with a spray can in WM & other stores.
Glenn;
Whatever your choice of brush, never NEVER by a cheap one-you will kick your own derriere mucho for that very MAJOR screwup!!
There is nothing worse than busting your hinie on a model, having it come out top-notch, and then botching up the paint work via efforts from a garbage brush. Do yourself a large favour; do buy a good-quality brush-and do buy that brush new!! If you buy someone else's brush, there is a good chance you are buying their cast-offs after they upgraded their arsenal to better.
As far as where to buy? I opine that staying away from mail order and going to a good art house like Dick Blick, etc; where there is probably a fairly knowledgeable staff, as well as ancillary and replacement parts, would be a smashing idea.
Also, taking a course from-say-a community college with an art cirriculum would be a definite step in the right direction; especially if you are uninitiated (one of the unwashed).
Much feedback on this site, as well as in this thread, most being highly beneficial and worth reading. OK; let's get those models built, and the paint flowing!!
Rich
Dear Friends,
Muchas gracias for the great info. One of our own, in a thread on aux tenders has this sidebar: Engineers like a tender behind.
Could not agree more! Not only an engineer, eh?
Kidding aside, is the Aztek more comfortable to use than the Paasche airbrush?
Best,, Jack
I have never used an air brush in quite the same way as WounderBear.
A while ago Harbor Tools had an offer on a small air spray gun - it could be for Barn Doors, but I live in hope.
I have not had an opportunity to use it with a larger compressor!
I have alwys found that a compresssed can and a Bader has previously done what I wanted.
Regards
when i first got an airbrush 20 or so yrs. ago, i got a cheap little plastic badger thing, that used cans of propellant, i thought it was great, no more paint lines, used less paint,.......but..... i outgrew it in less than 6 months, it just wouldnt do quality work, i figured up that in that time, the money i paid out for those cans of propellant couldve almost paid for an h set paasche!! the difference between a cheapy badger and a paasche h set is like the difference between a yugo and a porsche.....dont waste your time and money on anything that uses a can of propellant....trust me!! buy the h set or the vl set from paasche and a campbell hausfield compressor and you will be very very happy.
A airbrush is easy to use and it uses less paint. I have been to model rr mag and the all use airbrushes. It gets a nice even coat.
I've had my Badger 200 for 22 years and it's still going strong. But recently I've been doing more and more weathering and custom paint for other people including N scale and I'm considering going to a dual action, either another Badger or a Paasche VL . I used one of those noisey diaphram compressors for almost 15 years until I got a larger tank style compressor, what a difference, cannot recomend this enough.
Jack cannot testify first hand about the comfort of the two brushes, but one of the fellows in the club has tried both and he prefers the Aztecs more ergonomic shape. I guess if you can get your hands on both and see what's best for you.
brad
Thanks, Brad.
I will have the chance to handle a Paasche and Badger unit(s) this weekend at a tool show. Should get a better handle on it then. Thanks to all for the great responses.
Best, Jack
I still have my basic Badger air brush with compressed air cans it does what I need it to do. One day I will move up to something better.
Stephen
i liked my little plastic badger brush, i learned how to control an airbrush and how to mix paint using it, but when i got it, i was heavy into aircraft and armor modelling, and it just couldnt do the complex camoflage schemes i wanted, so a trip to my LHS and a lengthy talk with the owner got me headed towards a paasche brush, he showed me the h and vl sets, but said id probably like the h set better to start with, and then get the vl set later, after i had some experience with the h set, he was right, i used the h set for 15 yrs before finally getting a vl, and i only did that because it was on sale at a serious discount, once i got used to the internal mix and the way the trigger worked i found i could spray a needle thin line of paint, now the camo patterns, exhaust stains, oil streaks, grime and dirt look absolutely great!
its an excellent idea to go ''hands on'' and see what you feel comfortable with, one thing i know for sure, the vl takes a steady hand and a lot of practice, so you dont spray a big drippy blob of paint right in the middle of your job.
I didn't recommend a cheap brush. I believe I recommended Paasche--one of the better brands. As to the clompressor--I moved up from the little diaphragm compressor thur a couple of others before I settled on the DeVilbiss I have now. I found that getting into the middle-range of horsepower is an advantage in cutting down the run time and therefore electricty use. The larger machines also allow use of some air tools and the occasional reinflating a tire on the car. gj
Glenn,
I'd venture to guess that Rich's post was actually directed to the originator of this topic; I don't think he meant to address you.
I'll reiterate and say that I don't think cost or brand should be the deciding factor on an airbrush purchase, or any other tool purchase, for that matter. If a tool is well designed with good tolerances and fine machining it is a good choice. Provided that parts (needles, tips, lost springs or O-rings, jars) are available for the model selected and it is built of durable, quality components, I don't see how you can go wrong regardless of brand or price tag.
I’d be interested to learn of Jack’s ultimate selection.
Craig
Sunday am, Palm Sunday,
Dear Friends,
This friend who is giving me his old Erie Lackawanna HO RR has a NIB Badger airbrush and compresser. I will cut my teeth on that, then possible move up to a Paasche. My main interest is running trains, not counting rivets. I do enjoy a nice layout. At my stage in life, I am content to troll around after my children and do their stuff, from elementary to high school! Like the old farmer said when asked if he and Maw were going have more than their already 13 children: "Why, we just figgered out what is causing them!"
Should get the layout mid to late summer. Will keep you upgraded.
Best, Jack
I second most of the comments re: brand of airbrush. Most any name brand is a good investment. Many people get along very well with a single-action brush. A dual-action brush is considered the "gold standard", but a lot of folks never quite get used to them. Something else you need to be aware of is that there are different tips for different paints. I went to a Badger clinic in Philly last year, and they were emphatic that you need to specify the tip for the paint you'll be using. A tip for solvent-based paints is different than one intended for water-base acrylics. They also noted that you need to thin the acrylic paints. The paint should be the consistency of milk for proper spraying. Most solvent-based model paints are OK out of the bottle, though some thinning never hurt.
Full disclosure: I used a Wold dual action Master M for decades. Works great for solvents; clogs with acrylics. I bought a new Badger to use with the new paints, and because Wold went out of business and I can't get parts any more.
ebtnut,
To the topic of thinning paint, every brand of solvent based paints I have used require thinning to spray. Floquil and Scalecoat both recommend one part thinner to two parts paint as a starting point. Some colors should be even thinner.
As I said in my first post in this thread, I do not like or use acrylics, but when I did try them, I changed to the tip on my Badger double action and still had lots of trouble. I will admit for me it mainly a time thing, acrylics dry fast, and I am just not a fast worker.
Again, I prefer Scalecoat for locos/rolling stock because the gloss finish saves a step/additive for decaling. And I use floquil fro buildings, weathering, etc. But I have yet to see any paint I did not have to thin to spray.
Sheldon
Sheldon;
It is said experience is the best teacher. Once upon a time, I had a bout with acrylics. Now, everyone knows that acrylics can be thinned with wqter-or alcohol...Wha...no? Au Contraire? Boy, you got that right!! One of the quickest ways I have found out to get stoned is to spray paint thinned with alcohol. Never again!! I learned a very important lesson that night-actually several...mostly, each type of paint has a solvent for it, and acrylics do not neccessarily thin with water-or alcohol to the point that it is a good idea to do so. Next...use a ventilator-and I don't mean a twelve-gauge with birdshot, either. Invest in an exhaust system. Lastly, do NOT breathe fumes...
...So now; I, like you, will spray only enamel (but I use laquer thinner for Floquil), and find that I get a better job done-not advocating the non-use of acrylics, but it is my preference.
RIch