I try to buy some stuff at local shops but the prices are crazy. Had to pay $4 more to turn Right instead of Left (turnouts) because of price changes and the way shelves stocked. Asked if I could maybe pay a little less since buying over $100. Of coarse not.
Its hard to justify when I can pay WAY less online + no sales tax (9%)
Is it the same elsewhere? Should I feel bad about buying online?
I guess I kind of get the same feeling as I would at H Depot. If the prices are high and they don't exactly offer great service then why shouldn't I buy from some strangers in NY who charge reasonable and ship order correctly and on time.
Just curious what others think.
Wish I had a local hobby shop. I'd be glad to pay the $4.00 extra. My nearest hobby shop is a 120 mile round trip. I buy all on line so I wait 3-10 days and pay postage. Have you been to the PO to mail a box of anything lately, it ain't cheap more than $4.00.
I have a friend who owns a quite large outdoor sporting store, hunting and fishing stuff. One time a customer was complaining he could get his item on line for $6.00 cheaper. He paid for the item and the owner took the item and put it under the counter. The customer looked at the owner and said what the (expletive's) are you doing. The owner told him to come back in 3 days to pick it up, after all it would take at least that long to receive it through the mail after he paid for it. The owner put it on the counter and the customer left in a huff with his item. The owner exclaimed, I'm (expletives) glad he won't be back!
The customer was a rude dude from the get go. Sometimes I wonder if I would have told the guy to leave with his attitude and please don't come back long before he bought anything, complained about everything.
I live in a city with many hobby shops and I go to about 2 of them regularily. There was another but after some madening trips to it I just stop going there. But the two I like I know many people at and I'm known very well. The store itself is slightly higher priced than the other but it's fun to go there and I feel like I should contribute by buying there. So I try to balance my time at either store.
In the example given above, both the customer and store owner were wrong in their conduct.
First, the customer never says "I can get it cheaper online". How much cheaper? $10?
At that point the owner should agree: "Yes, I realize that, but I have overhead and employees to pay, and you are saving shipping charges."
So the guy decides to pay the price, no reason for more conflict. Putting the item under the counter to prove a point was childish. The owner should have handed the item to the customer and said "Thank you, please come back again".
I once asked a store owner if he could discount an item, the owner said: "No, I have to feed my family the same as you". I felt ashamed, and handed over the money with no further comments. Today, that store owner and I are good friends, and I continue to patronize his store.
My LHS has great prices (20% off) although sadly it doesn't pay the bills. The wife runs the store and her husband has another job.
I am very fortunate to have Caboose Hobbies, which I believe is the nation's largest train store, only 200 miles away. I visit them about once a month, and the store is always packed with customers. They are open 7 days a week.
If I need something in a hurry, I call in the morning, the item is usually here the next day.
in my years i have bought at least a cord of balsa wood locally. I personally like to hang around hobby stores. Where else can you get a guy to start up a SuperTigre 61 in the store at 8 pm ? All the stuff you need is right there. Where else can you get a guy to happily set up your new DCC locomotive that you just bought from his business ? Where else can you get a helicopter flown expertly in the store before you take it home / I buy stuff online also but i find there are secrets and you still need to go to the hobby store and get stuff you forgot to buy. i am sure online sellers also have families to feed and sometimes it comes down to paying local taxes on your purchase.
Thanks for opinions. I just want to clarify. R Hand atlas 851 $20. L Hand atlas 850 $16.50. I only pointed out that they are same item. $3-6 difference on a $20 item is significant.
About $13-14 at most online sites. I didn't argue with the guy OR say that its way cheaper online. I bought the items & I'll go back when I need something same day.
Our state is just driving me to buy more & more online. Why would I pay 9% tax on top of already higher prices. If I beleive the pictures then the place in NY looks like a nice family run business even if I never see them in person.
Quote from: Yampa Bob on February 03, 2009, 10:38:35 PM
I am very fortunate to have Caboose Hobbies, which I believe is the nation's largest train store, only 200 miles away. I visit them about once a month, and the store is always packed with customers. They are open 7 days a week.
If I need something in a hurry, I call in the morning, the item is usually here the next day.
I agree, if you find a good hobby store any slight difference in price is worth it for the service and advice they offer. My usual store is The Credit Valley Railway Company in Streetsville, Ontario. Their prices are comparible to On-line prices when you consider the C$ xchange rate.
I, too, have been comparison shopping my local hobby shop vs on-line. In IL, the sales tax is close to 10%, which I think is ridiculous.
Here is where I have settled: I buy large bulky items from the store because I know that I'll get hit with additional shipping charges for larger items. For smaller, lighter items, I'll buy from a few online vendors and from e-Bay.
I have found an e-Bay vendor that ships via US postal svc for $4.95 in most instances.
Unfortunately, I have yet to find a great hobby shop in my area that carries a lot of train supplies. And, several hobby shops have closed recently, I'm sure as a result of the bad economy.
I think if I had a great train store nearby, and the prices weren't too high relative to on-line, I'd patronize it more.
I buy track, freight cars, and all the little things from my LHS. expencive items like locos and some DCC items I buy online. this way I feel I support my LHS and save a little on the big things. the LHS has a wierd discount. you have to spend x amount of money and then they give you a discount on the next purchase. One of the LHS that I had worked for as a kid was giving me a %20 discount but they never had anything on the shelf. thats when I started going to the current hobby shop for my needs. I live in a city with lots of shops so im a little spoiled.
I forgot to mention that Caboose Hobbies has great discounts on all train items. During special sales, everything in the store is discounted an additional 15%.
I have saved up to 40% on many of my loco and car set purchases.
My final thought, I refuse to buy from any store or online source that requires me to deal with the factory on warrantly issues. If I get a defective item from Caboose, they give me credit and even reimburse me for all shipping charges, so I am not out a single penny. They then deal with the factory or distributor for replacement.
It's too far from Rochester, New York :'( :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: Yampa Bob on February 03, 2009, 10:38:35 PM
I am very fortunate to have Caboose Hobbies, which I believe is the nation's largest train store, only 200 miles away. I visit them about once a month, and the store is always packed with customers. They are open 7 days a week.
Next time I'm in Denver I'm going to be sure to visit the store (the last time someone else was driving and the Shepler's Western store won out over Caboose Hobbies ;D ).
It seems that half the time I get to a local hobby shop here at home, they don't have what I need. :-\ Perhaps they would be able to order something for me, but then it really becomes a question of time for me. If the store orders something for me, often there's no telling when the item will come in, and then I have to make a second trip back to the shop to pick it up. If I order something on line, usually it's exactly what I want from a supplier who has it in stock, and I receive it in a reasonably short time. So I'll buy it on line, where I can save the time of the trip to the store, place the order at my leisure (usually way after business hours), and get exactly what I want, even if I do have to pay shipping.
who is the ebay vendor, i love ebay but some people are horrible.
Jeff,
How far are you from Denver? If you visit the store, check out the detail parts section. They have so much stuff they have sliding sections to hold it all.
If you want to see it all, plan to spend the day, or overnight. We like shopping in the summer, so we can shop until closing and still drive back in daylight. Access is easy, at 5th and Broadway, with lots of free parking.
Plan another day stayover if you want to visit the railroad museum and Georgetown Loop.
Oh yeah, take lots of money. :D
Quote from: Yampa Bob on February 03, 2009, 10:38:35 PM
I am very fortunate to have Caboose Hobbies, which I believe is the nation's largest train store, only 200 miles away. I visit them about once a month, and the store is always packed with customers. They are open 7 days a week.
If I need something in a hurry, I call in the morning, the item is usually here the next day.
lucky, I have one great hobby shop I love but it closes early and being closed on sunday (It is in my home, bergan county N.J.) it is nearly impossale to go to. It is 15 miles away and I love going there
I think many of you are overlooking the real problem. While working in Richmond, IN a while ago I visited a brand new hobby shop in the downtown area. We talked about a new steam locomotive I was interested in but the owner said he won't even carry it in stock. Why? because his "wholesale" price from the distributor was HIGHER than what the mail order places were selling it for. The problem is not the hobby shops but the manufacturers who have different price structures for different customers. This puts the locals guys at a distinct disadvantage. If all retailers paid the same price for their products they could compete with mail order. Bachmann is guilty of this. Just look a Trainworlds prices in Model Railroader and the banner on top of the page: "Bachmann's Top Dealer". I plead guilty of using mail order when I can buy a new Bachmann American Freedom GS4 for $100 less than the local hobby shop. Sales tax and shipping can't make up that much difference and waiting is not a problem. I have to wait for the week-end to go to the hoibby shop anyway so if I order on a Monday I usually have it by the week-end or following Monday. The mail order guys have quick shipping down to a science.
I simply can not afford to support the local hobby shop on a regular basis. Unless it is during one of the few special sales that occur on a very irregular basis.
The price on the stock is basically the Walthers suggested price plus anywhere from 25% to 50%.
Both hobby shops around me are supplied by Horizon hobby, which tends not to have the best prices. I still make the 62 mile round trip to one of them about once a week, but the other has lost my business because most of the people there make it seem like I'm wasting their time by coming in there and not buying the most expensive R/C hellicopter. Driving really isn't a problem for me. I usually end up driving around 1000 miles a week. I can't order online without a credit card, so local is my only option.
An example:
I purchased a Bachman locomotive from a dealer in the USA while on a vacation.
The same locomotive in a British Columbia LHS, after factoring in taxes and exchange rate, would have cost 299% more.
Other LHS's were 10% less, best price I could find locally.
I did avoid shipping charges, brokerage fees, and Canadian duty and taxes by importing under a travel exemption,
My choice becomes; buy 1 locally or 2 to 3 while on a trip?
I like our local hobby shops. The two we have are:
Hobby Lobby (More like a store)
http://www.hobbylobby.com/
They have thousands of sales everyday. I can't go there one day (unless it's a day they're closed) when I don't find something Model Trains with some sort of percentage off. They carry a bunch of train sets, and a most of them are Bachmann. They have tons of products from these manufactures:
- Bachmann
- Woodland Scenics
- Kalmbach Publishing
- Model Power (uh!)
and...
They also have a weekly 40% off coupon on anything not on sale.
Hobbies R 4 U (A Small Hobby Shop with trains, airplanes, R/C, car kits, paints, and new HO scale stuff.)
http://hobbiesr4u.com/
They have seasonal sales. Overall, they sell MSRP. Sometimes small things (Couplers, turf, cork, etc.) are a dollar or two less. For Christmas time, they have some very good sales. I think I got a Bachmann Meteor set for about $50.00. I go there because they carry the small parts and tools (and standard track) I'm looking for. They changed a lot, and they have a LOT of N scale track and stuff. Plus a lot of other things ranging from G Gauge track to N scale track. I think they're the only local hobby shop out here that provides computer access so you can order your train/part through the computer. They'll call you when it comes in to Hobbies R 4 U.
To think we went from having no hobbies shops, to having these when I really got going into my hobby!
Josh
I once saw a hobby shop with no trains :o They just sold rc car parts.
That's probably because they specialize in the R/C hobby. Not all hobby shops have anything trains or trains at all.
Josh
There is an excellent LHS about fifteen miles from me. They handle all kinds of hobby stuff. They had to close off the section for slot cars because of not enough interest. I cannot always get there but I can call and they order the Walther's part number I require and hold it for me.
They also give our local model railroad club a nice discount.
http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3715386570
Rich
Quote from: Yampa Bob on February 05, 2009, 07:47:40 PM
Jeff,
How far are you from Denver?
I'm in Philadelphia.
QuoteIf you visit the store, check out the detail parts section. They have so much stuff they have sliding sections to hold it all.
If you want to see it all, plan to spend the day, or overnight. We like shopping in the summer, so we can shop until closing and still drive back in daylight. Access is easy, at 5th and Broadway, with lots of free parking.
Plan another day stayover if you want to visit the railroad museum and Georgetown Loop.
Oh yeah, take lots of money. :D
Detail parts and decals are two of the items I have most difficulty finding. As for bringing lots of money, that's why they made credit cards. :D
Jeff
Quote from: Casy jHOnes on February 03, 2009, 05:50:47 PM
Just curious what others think.
Perhaps this is a stretch, but does anyone else see a similarity between this issue and the whole concept of oursourcing jobs to other countries? The Internet/online hobby shops often have much lower or no overhead since they don't have a "bricks & mortar" store. They often are "second jobs" so their owners don't really need to earn a living wage OR they are located in an area where the cost of living is less. And people who patronize them often find that some day, there are no longer any local hobby shops in their area.
Outsourced jobs tend to go to areas where labor is cheaper/cost of living is lower (considerably), they are often located in countries where the government subsidizes benefits making their overhead lower and... yep, that arrangement typically ends up costing us jobs.
Maybe it's a stretch but you have to admit that it is at least similar.
I look at it this way... if I see an item that I want, I decide if I want to pay the shop owner's existing price. If I want it bad enough, I pay it. If not, it stays on the shelf. I won't offer him less for a reason that most people haven't thought of. How would you feel if your employer allowed someone else to do your job for a few dollars less? And you know darn well that there are people out there who would, especially in this time of a tough economy.
Support your local hobby shop? ABSOLUTELY!
dlm
Our local hobby shops are drying up. I've bought from them when they were open, but the closest one now is 20 miles away. One is a chain with all MSRP, and no great selection of what I need, and the other is mostly plastic airplanes. I used to go to the Naval Base hobby shop, but after 9/11 they redid the roads on base and getting to it makes me think I'm trying to avoid torpedoes. One other gives a discount to NMRA members, but only if you pay cash - maybe check.
Gene
I am in complete agreement with Gene. We have very limited access to any railroad oriented hobby shops even though Norfolk Southern is headquarted here.
Most of us are forced into mail order by circumstances rather than choice.
As I am on the opposite side of the tunnel ftom Gene I can get to a hobby shop a little closer, but HO is very limited at this shop.
Tom
Every time we purchase a model loco rolling stock or accessories we enforce the continuance of jobs lost to foreign companies. Turn your loco over and it will say made in China . There used to be made in Italy or made in Yugoslavia or even made in US. The decision to make a certain loco is made in China based primarily on the possible profit. If they can take an old mold and ressurect it (2-10-4 ) the possibilities of profit are greater.
I believe in support your local hobby shop but if they don't have what I want at the price I can afford to pay then I must go elsewhere'.
Don
I know what the major problem is, but being a patriot I can't describe it on the board. However, if I mention the word "productivity" you might get the gist of my feelings.
I'm sure other members will silently agree.
I think Im on the same page with you Robert ;)
what was that old bumper sticker? "support America" where did that ever go?......china?
i have a somewhat different take on the local hobby shop. i have friends who have tried to keep afloat running a local shop......
first of all, regarding prices. the big boys, trainworld, mb kleins and their ilk, are selling their stuff for less than the wholesale price my friend can get that item for. how do you compete with that?
another thing to consider. most people will buy their major purchases online, yet when they need locomotive parts or screws or some other thing the big boys refuse to stock they turn to the local dealer they snubbed for the big stuff. you can't make a living selling spare parts. also, if you ever want to install signals on your layout, just try mail ordering them. any dealer who sells them online is probebly not going to discount them enough to cover shipping.....
i try to support those dealers who will have what i need, or order it for me.....
im guilty of buying locos online for cost savings. I own about 25 locos and I think about 7 of them I found online. If I recall I bought my first BLI mike at the LHS for around $200 2 weeks later I found one online for $120! that was hard to swallow!
But...I do buy all my decoders,track,rolling stock,buildings,paint,small items from the LHS. Over all I spend alot more at the LHS than online. I would like to ask the LHS for a small price brake on locos but I also feel cheep doing so. If the LHS has a loco for $200 and online they sell the same for $150shipped . I have a hard time buying the same for $50 more. If the LHS could get it down to a $25 gap Im fine with that. We all like to get a good deal but I also want to support the local guy as thats where I will go when I need 90% of my trains. I still buy athearn and accurail cars kits as they are mostly made in the USA.
I like to think I still support this country in many ways ???
The train store I purchased my first loco from after getting back in the HO habbit - excuse me, I mean hobby is owned by one man & his wife. They are also open only part time Tue, Thurs and Fri then all day Saturday. Their hook is they are a club first and vendor second.
He buys from Walthers and has a good stock. The loco I purchased from him was a Proto 2000 Heritage Series 2-10-2 Heavy Steam Loco DCC and Sound. It happened to be on sale at Walthers for $180. He dropped his price to match Walthers. I *believe* shops that buy from Walthers have this opportunity. He for sure couldn't have withstood the price drop from $500 to $180.
I called two Tulsa 'hobby shops" asking about Atlas turnouts and motors - no one could tell me a thing except "I think we have what you want."
I'll buy at Erail when I can and other online stores when possible. http://www.erailhobbies.com/
Rick
Hello Everyone:
Sadly in my area one of my favorite hobby shops closed a few years back,
Wings and Things in Chesterton, IN.
so all that is left in my area in my opinion is 1 real hobby shop G&G in Griffith, IN, Rocky, Larry and the gang are helpful and they go out of their way to help.
there's another hobby shop Called Valpo Pet and Hobby, that store is too overpriced on everything, and I am not saying this because of online prices and such, that place is nuts, I think it is because of it's proximity near the college
there is Hobby Shops in Laporte IN that are great, but that's almost 1hr drive so that's now too feasible with the gas prices at the moment,
so G&G being 20 min away, it's cool,
I admit I love to save money and yes I will shop online, a brand new 2-8-4 by bachmann for $80.00 versus $105.00 plus tax, what would you do?.
a lot of us have fallen to the internet bug, and when a lot of us are strapped for cash, we try to get the best deals we can.
there's a hobbytown near me, that store sucks, I will never recommend it, and I always steer friends away from it, the owner caters more to model railroaders, but the problem is the fact the owner will not do special orders for people.
I have been screwed over a bunch of times there on special orders, because of it, I stopped shopping there,
I have asked the owner if he needed money down, he said no, so when the item was supposed to arrive he says "OH GREAT PLANES CANCELLED THE ORDER",
well when you go online to tower hobbies website, the item is available, hmmm,
I have heard the same complaint about hobby town from more than one person, this is the reason that store had to relocate 3 times in 5 years, no customers, can't afford the rent,
then you have Hobby Lobby, I do not consider this place a hobby shop, I consider it a bad version of wal mart, LOL.
I remember when I was a kid, there used to be a lot of hobby shops, I just hope the hobby shop is not a dying breed like the drive ins,
take care
George
George-
I have to disagree with you about hobby lobby, while it doesn't seem to cater too much to model railroaders my local store has been extremely helpful to me, they offer great deals and carry a pretty good selection of bachmann products (except DCC engines, they have only one and its a long steam engine that would never fit on my 18" radius track) and their 40% off email coupons are great. I bought the digital commander that lists on this site for $290 for $120 plus taxes with a 40% coupon.
While its not a model railroader's haven it is very useful to those of us that would have to otherwise drive over 100 miles to the nearest train shop. Plus my wife is a scrapbooker so its a store we can both go too without being bored out of our minds.