My spectrun transformer becomes extremely hot on the top surface around the dial, after only 10 minutes of operating my 2-6-0 and 4 cars at about half load. Then, the power decreases, then increases again, after a short time as if a thermal overload switch kicks in and out. I took off the dial, and the metal post was so hot you could not touch it but for a few seconds. My layout has not really changed (simple loop and a side track). The transformer is 10 years old and came with the train set. I know transformers become hot, simply from its operation, but this is excessive and started this year. Time for a new one? Any ideas would be appreciated.
Joe
Can the case be taken apart easily?
Joe Satnik
Yes, taking it apart is not difficult. I did not try it yet.
Joe
Joe a concern... without proper training someone can unknowingly create a hazardous or even deadly condition poking around in a transformer or power pack.
I don't believe we should provide any procedure that requires opening the case.
Hunt,
Thank you for the warning.
I forgot to tell him to unplug it from the wall if he was going to take it apart. (No danger unplugged.)
Joe HHRR,
Contact me off board for further advice.
joebarbATwwtDOTnet
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Dear Joe HHRR,
Are you using the accessories terminals? Do you get the same symptoms with the accessories disconnected?
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Dear Joe Satnik,
I'm using the DC accesories terminals to light two grain of wheat bulbs in my depot. I doubt that this would cause the problem, but I will try it tonight without it. I am not using the AC accessories terminals.
Thanks, Joe
Interesting,
This is the first time I've heard of a DC accessory output. Is it variable with the speed dial or a steady voltage?
Joe Satnik
Sorry Joe I may have confused the issue. I connected my light bulbs to the DC power (screws) that feed power to the track. Therefore, my lights vary with the speed.
Joe
Disconnect everything and see if it overheats at zero throttle, half throttle and full throttle.
Hey Joe,
From my experience and following bachmann's, to tyco's directions the ONLY thing to be attached to the DC terminals is the track to run the train, all other accessaries are to be run from the AC terminals.
Enjoy,
Barry
To clarify:
Disconnect all loads from the outputs of the power pack.
Plug into wall.
See if it overheats at zero throttle, half throttle and full throttle settings.
Thanks.
I've repaired power packs. Unless there is extensive damage (unlikely), they are usually fixable.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: jestor on February 18, 2009, 09:49:52 AM
I believe the total output of the Spectrum Pack is 10VA. That isn't much; probably just enough to run the train, especially if there are any lighted cars in the train. Usually building lights are 18 volt AC bulbs which should never be run off the DC terminals. You have probably been exceeding the power limit of your pack all these years and it is finally now protesting the abuse. DO NOT TRY TO TAKE IT APART, unless you are a qualified service tech. I'd suggest upgrading to a more powerful pack and let this one retire from service.
Actually, most incandescent bulbs used in model railroading will work on AC or DC, and they don't really care which. LED's REQUIRE DC, and true flourescents need AC because their starters are transformers. Running an 18volt bulb on 12 volts will work OK too, it just means that the bulb will not burn as brightly, and will run cooler & last longer than it would on 18 volts. If the output of the power pack is marginally adequate for the train, then it is true that adding two extra light bulbs could push it over the edge, causing it to overheat and go into overload. If the rated output of the powerpack is only 10VA, then it probably is marginal for just the train by itself, and the extra bulbs could be just enough to cause the problem described. Changing to a better quality power pack with higher output is probably a good idea in any case.
Regards,
Bill
Guys,
I appreciate all the input. To clarify, the 2 bulbs I am using for the depot are the same type of bulbs as in the passenger cars (grain of wheat). So, I connected the depot lights to the DC terminals, and they run off DC like the car lights. The wires to the bulbs are about 12 inches long. (maybe this is a resistance problem, since the wires are so fine). I like the yellow glow from the lights in the depot, as it reminds me of old kerosene lanterns. I do not use higher voltage AC bulbs. Can the grain of wheat bulbs run off AC also? In addition to the lights in the depot, I run 3 lighted passenger cars (2 bulbs per car) with my 2-6-0. Tonight I'll try the transformer without any load, then with the train only, and see what happens. Thanks.
Joe(HHRR)
Suggest you get a cheap wallwart to power your depot lights and have steady level of lighting. To have the lights vary with the speed of the train and go out when the train stops at the depot seems rather strange arrangement.
I have a wallwart which is switchable between 3 and 12 volts DC--get one of these and try the 6 or 9 volt setting for your kerosene lamp effect.
Renniks,
Sorry, but what is a "wallwart", and who would sell them? I am not familiar with the term. Your suggestion does make sense.
Thanks, Joe
Hey Joe,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_wart
How many people have old cell phone chargers lying around? just check voltage. I have also used an extra old transformer to operate just the accessories. That was partly due to logistics on that layout, but it worked great.
Enjoy,
Barry
Thanks Barry, that gives me some options for running lighted buildings only.
To all the fellows who helped me, I tested the transformer last night. With no load and at 0, 50 and 100 on the dial, it barely got lukewarm after about 2 hours. I then ran my train only (no depot lights) with three lighted cars, and after 20 minutes, the transformer was real hot, and the train would slow up then speed up, then stop, then start. So, the transofrmer is shot. I did find a new replacement one on line. However, one of you fellows suggested an upgrade to a more powerful one, especially with future expansions. But, the VA rating of some is confusing. The Bachman transformewr puts out about 1 amp. So, any suggestions for a better more powerful one would be appreciated.
Thanks, Joe
I forgot to mention that some GOW bulbs apparently have little or no quality control, and the current they draw can vary greatly, sometimes over 1/4 amp! If the power supply is 12 volts and is rated at 10va, it is only putting out slightly more than 3/4 of an amp (.8333 amps), which isn't that much, especially if you are trying to run a typical trainset consist of loco (w/headlight) & 3 lighted passenger cars. It's possible that the extra lights are the last straw. See if you still have a similar problem with just the loco & cars, and then just the loco by itself. Keep in mind that when you buy a trainset, you usually expect a better price on the set than if you were to buy the same loco & cars individually, but the manufacturer still has to include track, transformer, and a large display box, plus pay higher freight because the sets are so large, just to get it to you. So, there just isn't a lot of room for them to include a high end power pack in the deal, because it's basically a "freebie". Since the loco, cars, and track are sold separately, the only thing that can be cheapened to keep prices down is the power pack.
Regards,
Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the information, I see your point. I tried my train with just the loco and lighted cars and had the same problem. I have run this same consist for years, with no problem, it just showed up at Christmas. My 2-6-0 has the headlight and a cab light (GOW) that I installed about 9 years ago. My current Bachman transformer is rated at 15 VDC, and 10 VA. I was thinking of replacing it with a 15 V DC transformer made by MRC, with either a 17 VA or 18 VA rating. I assume that this would give me the extra reserve power for the train. Then if I have 12 V at the track, I have about 1.5 amps available. Am I figuring this correctly? Does this sound like a reasonable approach? Just want another opinion, and I won't hold you to it. (They also have some that are rated at 20 VA, but they are at 23 V DC, and this may be overkill). I also plan on getting a cheaper transformer just to run the building lights, or a walwart.
Thanks, Joe
Joe,
Your figuring is correct. The 20VA--23VDC is probably for Large scale and not suitable. The 18Va will do fine. By the way, if you get a new transfmr to run the trains,try your old one for the lighting,adjusted to give light level you like. Should work ok and save cost of yet another transfmr.
Eric UK
HHRR Joe,
I just thought of something.
Have you cleaned and lubed your loco lately?
A dirty/dry engine puts a bigger load on the power pack, causing it to work harder and heat up.
You might hear squeaking from the engine's moving parts.
Use plastic compatible lubes only.
I own Labelle 102, 106 and 108 lubes.
Bachmann sells a line of lubes, but at the time I was looking (long ago) they were scarce.
Here is a link to Hunt's lube procedure:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,5659.0.html
Your power pack may still have something wrong with it, but cleaning and lubing your loco will eliminate one more thing in our troubleshooting process.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Eric and Joe,
Thanks for the information, I appreciate all the help. Eric -- first, I tried various combinations of my main train last night, and it was OK if I only run the loco and tender by itself, and the transformer got normally warm. I then added one lighted car, and it started to get hot after about 20 - 30 minutes, but the power went up and down, but not as often. So, I am going to get a new transformer, and yes, I will keep the old one for lighting the buildings.
Joe -- I cleaned and lubed the 2-6-0 and all my engines around Christmas, and have done this many times in the past, not using too much grease and light oil as recommended. I did get my grease and oils from the hobby shop. The cars wheels are free wheeling and I clean them often. You fellows cover all the angles, and it is much appreciated.
Thanks, Joe
HHRR,
I just checked both the Model Rectifier Corporation, and the Walthers website, and apparently almost everything is out of stock, possibly due to a model year change, or possible due to the Sanda Kan factory bankruptcy and subsequent purchase of same by Kader. However, there is one power pack still listed as "in stock" at Walthers, and it is on sale for only $26.95! It is the model 1300, which is their smallest power pack and is slightly better than what is found in a typical trainset, but if you only set up your On30 at Christmas, it will probably work just fine for you, especially if you use a separate supply for any accessories, such as structure lighting and switch machines. For many years, MRC Power Packs have been the standard of the industry, I still have 4 of their old Tech II #2400's and they work great some 20 years after they were discontinued in favor of a new model. You can probably find an MRC 1370 (more power than the 1300), or maybe even a Tech 4 #200, #260, or #280 still on the shelf at a local hobbyshop, or at a trainshow. These are all in the 16-20VA power range, and put out the proper DC voltage for N, HO, & On30 trains. They will be more pricey than the #1300 @ $26.95, but they are fine units and will give you many years of service.
Regards,
Bill Nielsen
Oakland Park, FL USA