I recently purchased a Bachmann HO locomotive, which represents an actual locomotive that operated from 1869 to 1909. I have been unsuccessful in locating vintage rolling stock (by Bachmann, or others) from that same era to use with this locomotive (box car, livestock car, flatbed, gondola, passenger car, caboose, etc.). Not only would such rolling stock match the era of my locomotive in design and appearance, but I believe that such cars generally will be of a shorter length than modern HO cars, which tend to visually overwhelm my locomotive. Stock ranging from 3-1/4" to 5-1/2" appears appropriate.
I have wondered if I am just not looking in the right places. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I might look for vintage HO rolling stock?
For starters, check out these vintage coaches.
http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/index_home.php?cPath=126_127&sort=3a&filter_id=567
Old Time freight cars, pictures may not match descriptions, so you should call to verify road names.
http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/index_home.php?cPath=136_137&sort=3a&filter_id=567
All the above have metal wheels and body mounted couplers, ready to roll.
Here is a selection of vintage freight cars, however they do have plastic wheelsets and truck mounted couplers.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0091P?&C=UCC&V=CSM
I bought a bunch of these last year when they were more plentiful, then upgraded to body mounted couplers and modified the trucks. Once upgraded, they are very nice cars. As you can see, production is slow, so expect backorders.
Here are some more vintage coaches, they also have Talgo truck mounted couplers, but can easily be upgraded.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0091P?&C=UDC&V=CSM
Here is my thread on upgrading the cars.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4917.0.html
Regards
Light - Bob has given you some interesting websites to check out. I also model a branchline in 1889 and have gone through the same difficulties you are experiencing. For structures: I generally only build craftsman kits...lots available for the late 19th century. For locomotives the best offered are the Bachmann Spectrum Americans - as long as you understand that they are MODERN 4-4-0s. These locomotives are excellent runners and are equipped with DCC + sound (be sure to buy the wooden cab version)...you will have to ignore the steam generator and electric headlight. If you are still running DC, Bachmann, Rivarossi and AHM (Pocher) offer balloon-stacked woodburners which are mediocre runners. Rolling stock is a much harder issue with Roundhouse being the most common choice. These are really turn of the century (pre-WW1) cars and are a bit too large for the late 1800s. BTS is now offering some craftsman laser-cut kits that tend toward the Civil War (or as we say in Alabama: The War of Northern Aggression) period. Not to be dismissed are the many older cars from Mantua, Bachmann, AHM, IHC and Pocher...usually listed under "old time". These are cheaply made cars that, with a little work, can be good runners that look great...at every train show we vendor, I try to pick up a couple of these orphans.
I'm sorry I couldn't be of more assistance; but 19th century railroading is poorly represented by the major equipment manufacturers. Actually, until Bachmann's excellent Americans, there was little to nothing worth the trouble. Modeling the 19th century is making do with what is "out there"...sorry, but that is just the way it is. You, too, will ask; "How many more AAR 40' steel box cars does the hobby really need?"
Bob: I am writing this from a campground in New York. Boy there sure is a lot of Yankees up here...I would have thought the winters would kill some of them off.
Ray
I do not know if you like building kits but there is a online company that will be producing HO scale 1860 to 1910 rolling stock. You can click on my user name and email me. My email address is not hidden. I will send you a link to the company. I can send you a link to a catalog also. I will not do that in these forums.
Below is a flat car with load they will be releasing. I just happen to be scratch building one. It is far from finished.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Flat%20car/Flatcar5.jpg)
They also will have a 1870 UP Photographer's car. The below is on my railroad. The 119 and car have been restored and visiting around 1900.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Photographer/UP119Photographerscar.jpg)
Rich
RichG,
can you provide a link to the company that sells these "photo" cars. I tried to email you, but your mail is hidden.
Thanks,
Lee
PS. That car with the load is fantastic....!!
I do not want to violate the rules about other companies new products.
I just unlocked my email address. Sorry.
I found a photo of the car in White's The American Freight Car. I strongly recommend the book for anyone modeling circa 1900. It was used by the Wabash railroad. It is 36' 6" long, 16 wheel, 60 ton capacity. There are four large diameter truss rods. The load is for a Hamilton-Corliss stationary steam engine. The Wabash had a couple for hauling cable reels for installing trolley system which were becoming popular around 1900. Gordon Odegard did a spead on it somewhere around 1960 in Model Railroader. I can email you the PDF document.
It is almost a copy of one the PRR had around 1869 for hauling naval guns. That flat car had 26 inch wheels to keep the center of gravity lower.
Rich
To: Yampa Bob, CNE Runner & richG ~
Great Info !
Many Thanks!
lightfb2 -You are entirely welcome. We are glad we could be of assistance and hope you will turn to the forum again. On a related note: it is hearting to have another 19th century train affectionado in the ranks. richG, I read your comment that you "didn't want to violate the rules about other companies new products" and realized you are a class act...it is a pleasure to be associated with you.
Regards,
Ray
Quote from: CNE Runner link=topic=9077.msg74698#msg74698b]Bob[/b]: I am writing this from a campground in New York. Boy there sure is a lot of Yankees up here...I would have thought the winters would kill some of them off.
Ray
Nah, they just make us tougher. ... ;)
Try the flea markets & train shows. Mantua had some back in the day. I believe IHC also had some a few years back. Some may still be in stock, try the online train shops. jerry
Jerry, you are correct Mantua had, and still has, 1870s+ rolling stock. Recently I went on a website that listed several cars (horse car, box car). Mantua cars are toylike but with a little work can be made into nice period rolling stock. I have a couple of Mantua horse cars and am pleased with how they turned out after some repainting (they originally only came in a couple of road names), recoupling, re-wheeling (if there is such a word) and weathering. I also have one or two IHC cars (apparently IHC is completely out of business) and they also can be improved upon nicely. AHM and Pocher are other finds at a model railroad show. And how can we forget the Bachmann line of "old timer" cars?
I have made a promise to myself to build one of the B.T.S. old time cars to see how they are to assemble (do keep in mind these are laser-cut craftsman kits without couplers, trucks or decals). With all the structures I have backlogged, I don't know when I will find the time to add a car kit...especially a somewhat complicated one (then again isn't the first of anything complicated?).
Definitely go to any train shows you can. Be wary about buying from ebay as the prices for old time equipment has gone through the roof (how about $18 + shipping for a stock Bachmann old timer gondola?). Good luck with the hunt.
Ray
I see a lot of 1800s rolling stock in Historic Rail catalog. I didn't request a catalog; they must have found me on a mailing list. Here's their website:
www.HistoricRail.com
Historic Rail does have some older rolling stock...but at MSRP prices! If you see something there that you like, check out the online discounters. Keep in mind that the selection for pre-1900 cars is quite sparse (Roundhouse cars, being 36' in length, are really post 1900).
Ray
Although it might be getting a little off topic, here is a link to a photo of a large steam engine crank shaft similar to the one I am modeling in an above message. Scroll down to the crank shaft on a flatbed trailer. Click on the photo for more info on this steam engine.
Many stationary steam engines around 1900 were huge. Some stood nearly fifty feet high. They would require quite a few boilers. Very inefficient compared to todays power plants.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59817
Rich
It depends on which side of the big creek you're on. When Georgetown Loop first started up in 1885, the coaches were about 43' to the sills, 50' to the buffers. The first locomotives used on the loop were 4-4-0, which also measured about 50' overall. Roundhouse "Overland" cars are not a perfect match, as the cars have a 50' box, whereas the overall is 58'. However when coupled to a Roundhouse vintage 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 they are a good visual match.
I considered shortening the Overlands a bit, but since they have the correct number of windows, decided to run them as is.
The "Overton" as a name never existed. It is a name concocted for the 34' "Sierra" combine and coach use on the Sierra Railroad. Some sources claim it was named after Overton, Nevada.
They may not be "prototypically" (I really hate that word) accurate, but they do a better job of capturing the essence of mid-late 19th century passenger railroading than any other cars available. They look much shorter as the 34' is overall, the box is only about 30'.
According to this source, the Sierras were almost gone by 1900. Read and decide. I don't worry so much about (that nasty word) eras, just want the loco and cars to be visually balanced.
http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/protopass1.htm
...also have one or two IHC cars (apparently IHC is completely out of business)
No they're not;
http://www.ihc-hobby.com/cgi-bin/bsc.cgi?sn=013
A latecomer's follow up. I very highly recommend looking at John White's _The American Railroad Freight Car From the Wood Car Era to the Coming of Steel_ This is huge book, and an expensive one, but very useful for anyone trying to understand the nature of railroad car design and railroad freight operations up to World War I. If you don't want to spend that much for a book, check academic libraries - you can probably find one there.
I would offer one slight modification to the time frame offered, for reasons which are well documented in White's magnificent book: The small wooden freight car era is effectively ended in 1903, not 1910. Yes, some of the newer 36 foot cars and large quantities of all wood 40 foot cars remained in interchange service after 1903, but that year is a watershed, and it is unlikely much 1860's equipment remained in interchange service after 1903.
1903 is the year the Safety Appliance Act finally went into effect, forcing railroads to adopt automatic couplers and air brakes on cars used in interstate service and in interchange service. Freight cars from the 1860s had a much smaller capacity than cars from the mid to late 1880s, so the cost of rebuilding old, relatively low capacity cars was offset by the economic benefit of moving more freight per car with newer equipment - an argument for retiring 20 ton capacity cars in favor of 40 ton capacity cars which were becoming the standard after 1900. Not to mention the all steel car, allowing 50 ton capacity hopper cars to become common after 1900.
A fairly good selection of all wood box, stock, and refrigerator cars from the mid 1880s to the 1910's have been offered by various manufacturers, especially in H-0 scale. Scratch building isn't too difficult, either, and a fair number of drawings exist. However, the early steel hopper and gondolas are much harder to find. One manufacturer offers a number of hoppers, in resin kits in H-0 scale, but the lack of the Pressed Steel Car Company general service gondolas from the 1900s to 1930s is greatly noted by people modeling the western states. The hopper bottom coal car was ubiquitous east of the Mississippi, but in the Rockies and west the 'coal car' was more often than not a flat bottomed general service gondola with doors to allow dumping coal or limestone. The flat floor allowed the car to be used to carry pipe, lumber, and other commodities when it wasn't carrying coal.
Happy researching and building all.
Charlie Mutschler
-30-
Very interesting history lesson!
Thanks, Charlie! :)