I'll try to word this properly...
I need to see so pics of a Tortise connected to an Atlas turnout (#6 in my case) but any photos of what the finished product looks like and how / where things are positioned and connected will help. These will be DCC when the layout is finished. Many thanks - it is appreciated.
Rick
I've done two on atlas #6s and it's really quite simple. I ran the wire up through the centre hole of the switch rails then just mounted the tortoise as instructed with four screws. Its the same a adding tortoises on other switchs or have you just never installed tortoises and are a little confused? I would add pictures but I've not had any success with pictures on here.
This might be tough to get in one shot, since the tortoise mounts under your bench work and only the actuating wire protrudes up though the roadbed and into the small hole in the switch. There is a drill template included with the Tortoise. The # 6 has a small hole in the center of the switch as well as one that is offset to the side of the rails should there not be room beneath your bench directly under your trackage. Have you got a Tortoise in hand yet? If you're plan is to run them in DCC there may be an all in one solution in the form of a Wabbit, which is switch machine and decoder in one unit. A Tortoise will need a stationary decoder in addition to the switch machine. I was planing to use them myself, but may end up using ground throws, because I can walk all the way around my 5x12 oval. I'm basically trying to decide if I want to do the additional wiring, as each switch needs a DC power source and DCC connection which I believe is separate from the power source. If I have misinterpreted this someone will set me straight I sure....
Usually with either the wabbit(all in one) or adding a hare(stationary decoder made for a tortoise) or any other stationary decoder, the decoder gets the dcc signal and the power through your main track bus. Therefore making wiring simpler, maybe depending on where you would have put the control switch like if it was run to a main ctc type than youll save on wiring but if you were to just put it on the fasia beside the turnout than maybe not so much. Wiring them in dcc is easier because you only need to connect the tortoise to the nearest feeder wire or main track bus. I'm not sure which is cheaper, a tortoise and hare or a wabbit(gotta love the names) since a toroise now generally costs about $25 a piece then add on the hare which is more but I guess that will just require some research I guess.
I don't have the Tortise(s) on order yet. I'm using Code 83 Atlas track and turnouts. The owner of my closest Train only LHS suggested Tortise as that's what they use on his MRRClub layout. My layout is going to be the Grand Valley for Woodland Scenics - I bought the track only on ebay at a very good price.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/fof62q.jpg)
I'll be adding one turnout at the bottom of the outside right hand curve to run a line past the other end into another realm of the track to extend the layout length. The width is being enlarged by 9" pieces at the end of all four major radiuses.
It will be a DCC track when finished - hoefully DCC controlled turnouts also.
Is the item pictured and priced at the link below what I need for each turnout?
http://www.blwnscale.com/Circuitron.htm
Thanks for the help - things are getting clearer.
Rick
I only see two switchs and their industry switches. You probably don't feel the same but I usually only go through the cost and effort or tortoises on mainline switches and use ground throws on switching areas.
Just between you and me, since your track plan's turnouts are within easy reach, why don't you consider using manual throws. Caboose Hobbies makes several styles. They're a little oversize, but look good, work well install easily and cost a LOT less than a Tortoise. The best thing about manual throws is that when you stop the train, give your "head end brakeman" time to climb down, throw the switch, and get back on board before you proceed, you feel more like you're running the train...it's all about involvement and what they call "suspension of disbelief." Just my two cents worth.
Rusty
are you planning to build this on a plywood or other wooden base? if not, mounting a tortoise could be a problem as they are designed for screw mountaing into someting solid. if you are planning to use the foam risers from woodland scenics that come with the layout kit, you will have problems with securely mounting the toroise, and also with the length of the actuating rod supplied with the motor. the rod is easily replaced with piano wire, and if you use a stiffer wire than the one used by tortoise, you canextend the motor's reach. but as for gluing one to foam, the tortoise has alot of torque, and i am not sure your glue would hlod or it wouldn't damage foam.
I second many of the thoughts here. They need a solid mount, and they actuator is fairly short. It will go up through 3/4 ply and roadbed but not much more. If you don't pan you bench work and place a support member under a switch you run into the necessity of using offset mechanisms to get the switch to throw. I thought they would be cool on the beginning, but now I'm thinking they are somewhat redundant on a layout where one has few switches, or can reach anywhere on the table. I have a box of six that I may never use, since I discovered the Caboose industries ground throws. I like the simplicity of the ground throw. I may use one or two Tortoise machines in the middle of my layout but then may not. I have a reverse lop and a wye where I will use them in which case I will control them with a PS-AR reverser, which will automate the gateway switch and set the points to match the direction of travel when the polarity reverses.
You could use atlas switch machines for the 3 turnouts. I use them and they are pretty good. If I had the money I would go with switch master or tortoise. I use the digitrax DS-64 to control them from my hand held NCE Power cab. The DS-64 can operate 4 different switches (or 8 if they are in pairs like crossovers) either a solenoid or slow motion machine, but they can't be mixed on 1 DS-64. How are you controlling the trains? With the stick?
Tylerf:
"I only see two switchs and their industry switches. You probably don't feel the same but I usually only go through the cost and effort or tortoises on mainline switches and use ground throws on switching areas."
The stock layout has a left and a right turnout included. I plan on adding one #6 left turnout to the bottom of the picture to extend a length of flexrtack past the left end of the plan adding length and more track - either a basic switch yard or turn table. I'm doing all this controlling with a Dynamis with a stick in my mouth for my fingers. If you haven't read that I am a quad - paralyzed from the armpit area down and use a mouthstick for my fingers - I'll tell you & others again now. I'm striving for ease of use. If I need a bank of pushbuttons and it's easier to use than a DCC control system that is what I want to know. I'm a bit disabled but try to find ways to make do.
Rusty,
Just between you and me, since your track plan's turnouts are within easy reach, why don't you consider using manual throws.
Manual - as in me reaching out to push/pull a switch - isn't an option. I have the area of approx two keyboards that my mouthstick will cover.
jward
are you planning to build this on a plywood or other wooden base? if not, mounting a tortoise could be a problem as they are designed for screw mountaing into someting solid. if you are planning to use the foam risers from woodland scenics that come with the layout kit, you will have problems with securely mounting the toroise,"
I have one layer of 1" foam down on a 1/2" 4'x8' sheet of plywood. I'm not using and Woodland Scenics subterranian stuff. My first track will be on the 1" foam (actually insulation board). I'll add height by 1/2" incerments of foam. If a hard base is needed I can always insert it into the foam between the 1/2" layers where needed or place some 1/4" plywood or fiberboard where needed. This is my thinking anyway. Thinking often gets me in trouble.
Chris
"I second many of the thoughts here. They need a solid mount, and they actuator is fairly short. It will go up through 3/4 ply and roadbed but not much more."
How about if I place it on the plywood or shim it up off the plywood to reach through the 1" first layer of foam board? I really need to know - I'm searching for answers here from you folks that may have "been there, done that."
PD,
"You could use atlas switch machines for the 3 turnouts. I use them and they are pretty good. If I had the money I would go with switch master or tortoise."..."How are you controlling the trains? With the stick?"
Donno why the boss of the club suggested Tortise unless it was I told him I wanted to attemp to be all DCC control. Will Atlas machines "do" DCC? I'm not against saving money at all. I have the Dynamis DCC controller now. The club runs it's layout(s) and test tracks with NCE Powercab wired handheld. He said he'd eventually get me useing NCE Powercab.
Yep, I'll be poking the Dynamis aroud with a stick.
Is this the Tortise I need to be using?
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2rpquiq.jpg)
I'm open to suggestions - still. Folks just cuz I'm not "able bodied" doesn't mean you need to treat me with kid gloves. If you see something done better another way tell me.
Many thanks-
Rick
Rick, you can buy stationary decoders that will operate twin-coil switch machines like the Atlas machines, but I don't know what's available for the Dynamis.
Rusty
ah not being able to reach the switches becomes a real issue then doesn't it? Then Tortoises will do you right. The image you provided is the Tortoise in question. The flat part on the top is the mount surface. On the right side of the image is an arm that moves back and forth pushing the actuator which moves the switch points. What isn't shown is the actuator wire that attaches to the side of the green box. It sticks up 1 3/8" the flat top of the machine needs to be screwed o the underside of bench work. It's close to being the correct length. It's fairly easy to make a longer actuator, or have one bent. The wire actuator does need to be bent to fit the machine. They provide wire with each machine, so it will not be hard to get the correct diameter in the length you need. All that remains is attach a stationary decoder and power...
Your thinking is good as far as insetting a mounting point between the layers of foam. You'll simply need to cut an area in the underside of your benchwork to allow access to the Tortoise. For that matter why not cut a hole where the switch machine is going to be then mount the Tortoise to a piece of ply that would mount flush to the surface, drop that ply in place over the hole, lay track and cover with scenery. Then you are simply going to shorten the supplied actuator, instead of trying to replace it.
First I must apologize for my poor memory, I really don't remember stuff about people I just answer the questions, second, I will say that from my own expirience with both atlas switch machines and tortoises ill have to say tortoises are easier and more reliable since I origionally decided on the cheaper atlas under the table switches that I just couldn't get to work right and have very little push to them, and as for adding dcc the tortoise is practically made for it. Mine aren't dcc but many people I know who do have them in dcc prove that they work flawlessly.
as I said before, I use the digitrax DS-64 to control them from my hand held NCE Power cab. The DS-64 can operate 4 different switches (or 8 if they are in pairs like crossovers) either a solenoid or slow motion machine, but they can't be mixed on 1 DS-64. The dsd-64 is a stationary decoder that can be accessed from my hand held power cab.It can be powered separately by using a wall wort but it receives its signal from the tracks. It is a capacitive discharge system when set up for solenoids and really gives them a kick. Well worth the addition Rick.
Quote from: OkieRick on May 10, 2009, 10:53:09 PM
I have one layer of 1" foam down on a 1/2" 4'x8' sheet of plywood. I'm not using and Woodland Scenics subterranian stuff. My first track will be on the 1" foam (actually insulation board). I'll add height by 1/2" incerments of foam. If a hard base is needed I can always insert it into the foam between the 1/2" layers where needed or place some 1/4" plywood or fiberboard where needed. This is my thinking anyway. Thinking often gets me in trouble.
the 1/2 inch plywood is sturdy enough to mount a tortiose, but if you are using minimum 1" foam on top of the plywood you'll want to make your own actuating rod out or a good stiff wire. you could probably get away with using a straightened paper clip, i have with other switch motors, but to be sure i'd use a length of piano wire slightly larger in diameter than the actuating rod that comes with the tortiose. this rod is unbent, by the way, and tortiose supplies a template for bending the rod. since what you'll be doing is making a longer rod, you can use the template they supply. the tortiose actuator is bent at one end, and a straight rod up through the benchwork to your switch. it doesn't matter how long the wire is when you are installing the tortoise, as you'll be threading the wire through the throwbar of the switch from underneath the table. as long as it reaches the throwbar you can trim it later
I've looked at Tortoise and Hare and Wabbit and The DS 64. When it comes to operation the DS64 is a bigger $$ saver - important on my project.
I reckon my question now is will the DS64 operate a an Atlas Remote Switch Machines handily? PD you may have answered this already - I need to know for sure.
You folks are a lot of help - I'm glad I didn't jump into buying stuff, nailing track and find out all my "stuff" wouldn't work together. Don't quit on me yet. I'm 56 and still learning. In '67 & '68 I switched the turnout by hand. Wish it was still an option.
Many thanks-
Rick
hmm, wonder what's for breakfast...
rick, why is hand throw not an option? it would be much simpler, and with that particular layout, which i've seen built up at hobbytown, all switches are within an easy reach.
Rick, I have 3 ds-64's operating my atlas switch machines. Because they are each powered by a wall wort, they don't take power from the tracks. They are capacitor discharge and give they machines a good kick. 100 times better than the atlas push buttons..
Quote from: jward on May 12, 2009, 08:01:48 AM
rick, why is hand throw not an option? it would be much simpler, and with that particular layout, which i've seen built up at hobbytown, all switches are within an easy reach.
In an earlier post he made reference to a mouth stick. I am assuming Rick is some how disabled and has limited use of his hands.
ok that would make sense. easier to push a button than to try to reach, especially from a sitting position.
I rolled my car on 12-18-1973 and broke my neck. I'm a C3-C7 level quad paralyzed from the armpit area down. I don't have any hand or arm movement at all. I have a head control with proximity sensors built into the back and each side. A chin switch allows me to change from forward to reverse, tilt and/or recline and change gears (programmed drive parameters). A movement of my head forward, left or right rolls my power chair.
I have a mouthstick I use to keyboard and anything else I am able to do with it as a "finger" - like dial and answer the phone, set the thermostat located at my height while in a power chair, etc. It's not the best of lifestyles, I wouldn't recommend it at all. But I can think of worse alternatives. I live out in the country, have a RR track about 50 yards to the East, get to enjoy nature and can pizz on the ground purt' near anywhere here and not worry about the neighbors calling the police to report me for indecent exposure.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2chw611.jpg)
That's me & Mayebelle caught howling at the moon.
Farm & ranch life is nice - you never quite get everything done. Eh, Yampa Bob?
I enjoy a new challenge - HO gage model rail roading has my attention now. Whatever I do I try to do as well as I can. It's a good crew here on this forum sharing a lot of knowledge - I soak up what I can and don't mind asking questions. I appreciate being treated as an equal. I don't get my nose out of joint too easily.
I thank y'all for the helpful information. Now back to regular programming in your area.
Okie Rick
(http://s5.tinypic.com/mvncyg_th.jpg) (http://s5.tinypic.com/2yv5kzk_th.jpg)
Rick, your not quit as ugly as me, but your getting there. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Was it you or mayebelle howling at the moon? or both of you? :o :o :o :o :o Ouch, a neck break is bad. :'( :'( But I'm glad you didn't loose you sense of humor. ;D
I had a major stroke in 1998, a left brain stem CVA, what ever that is. I have limited use of my right side. My hand an arm are pretty much an ornament but I can walk slowly, very slowly. I spent a month in the hospital relearning how to eat, dress and even to use the bathroom. I try to stay as independent as I can but people drive me where I need to go on occasion as I don't have a car or license.
PD, you & I are perfect examples why there should be rail accomodations between towns and trolley service in towns. I have chair user buddies in NZ, Australia, UK and all over EU that make use of the rail service for transportation. My mother tells of riding the Santa Fe from Dewey to Bartlesville - 5 miles - for 5 cents. Evening trips back to Dewey on the MKT cost the same. 'Course this was in the 1930's.
I think the U.S. blew it not keeping up it's post war RR service. But this is for another topic.
OkieRick
(http://s5.tinypic.com/21d4ooy_th.jpg)
I agree with the fact that RR service should have been supported to the same degree that highway and airport construction was and is currently. In the Chicago Area ridership is up on Metra and other rail services, and more towns are requesting service. Politicians are always a Day late and a Dollars short . God may have created the universe in six days, but the maintance goes on forever . John II
Rick, I remember taking a trip to Boston by train with my mother some 55 years ago. They still had steam on the B&M and that was pulling our train.
About 15 years ago my sister in LA checked on taking the trip back home to visit the folks in OK by rail on the Amtrack just to give her kids the experience of riding a train. Then Wichita was as close as she could get straight through. You can get from LA to OKC if you're patient...
(http://i43.tinypic.com/xcozf4.jpg)
I didn't pick the dates, the scheduler did. I didn't bother to check the price.
Seems most Amtrack service is on the Eastern seaboard, West coast and across Texas to the south and Kansas & Illinois to the north. Okies just pay taxes to help keep it running.
Trains could sure move worlds of freight and people. Wish I'd had taken a train trip when I could have, wheelchair or not.
Rick,
"Pa Kettle" had a philosophy about getting things done..."Can't fix the roof when it's raining, and when it ain't raining the roof don't need fixed". 8)
While my buddies are busy with their kids and grandkids graduating high school I took the time to take stock and order some items needed so I can continue laying and cutting foam. I called Victor at ERail - http://www.erailhobbies.com/ - my train only hobby shop / MRR club boss in Tulsa. He let me buy at club prices so I saved some bucks on Atlas Code 83 Custom-Line #6 and #8 Left and Right turnouts and Remote Switch Machines.
Also picked up a Digitrax DS64 Quad decoder to control 4 switches PD told me about. He started to sell me a less expensive DS44 but found it only worked with Tortoise or other slow motion switches.
I need some 83 to 100 conversion track pieces but I can't find any in stock. I've sent email to the vendors listed at Walthers that purchased it there.
Now I'm broke again for a month as far as train equipment goes. I have to get some work done. The long range forecast here is for sunshine or partly cloudy skies. Maybe I can get some foam cut outside.
If not I'll go watch my tomato plants get busy growing after 2 weeks of rain.
Rick
Take your rail joiner and flatten it on one half, slide the open end on a piece of code 100 rail. Lay a piece of code 83 on the flattened end and solder just the code 83 side. A touch up with a file is all you need. By the way, does your stick have its own file?
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX5834&P=7
PD said:
Take your rail joiner and flatten it on one half, slide the open end on a piece of code 100 rail. Lay a piece of code 83 on the flattened end and solder just the code 83 side. A touch up with a file is all you need. By the way, does your stick have its own file?
Ok - I had to study this a minute. I need to flatten one end - half of it lengthwise - then do the soldering to the 83 sitting atop the flat joiner. I can get that done easy enough to save me a bunch of bucks. My 36" long Flex Track is 100 & I do want to use it. Thanks for the tip!
Bob
I have plenty of 83 and 100 rail joiners. I don't have any idea how many joiners are in a package, if it's less than 100 it's highway...or train robbery.
Then again, I couldn't make them for that price.
Thanks guys - as always, it is appreciated.
Rick
The page I linked to are for transition joiners, to connect 83 to 100. They are a bit pricey, only 12 for $3.00.
Rick, you've heard of the swiss army knife, why don't you invent the swiss army stick. 100 attachments for your stick.
Bob, my 1" Starrett mics are down in the shop. It didn't occur to me there width difference as well as height difference. By the looks of the joiners I'd say yes - very little, but 83 is narrower than 100 at the base. I have a few of those joiners and will try them. thanks for painting me a picture. I do catch on first time occasionally.
PD, I have a 1/4" dia. dowel rod for mouth sticks. On most I have a plain rubber secretary's finger stall on the workng end held on by a technologically advanced light weight green rubber-type compound called "the rubber band saved off the daily newspaper." I do have different length sticks for turning pages of a book, reaching for the thermostat, one for typewriter use (yep, still have a typewriter) and one for flipping playing cards out of a holder & Scrabble letters.
Too much weight on the end of my stick makes it hard to wield but yesterday I did think about having a small file attached so I could touch up the soldered rail you mentioned.
Rick
Rick,
PD uses his teeth....when he's not trimming his toenails. Out here we call that "Hoof in Mouth" syndrome. :D :D
I've never used the transition joiners, don't have a clue how the overall height difference is compensated.
I've suffered from hoof in mouth for years. I still like the idea of a swiss army stick, but it would have to be ultra light weight. Rick, with all those sticks, you'll need a golf bag ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Fellers, If we don't get our hands slapped for carrying on this light hearted conversation I'll get a picture of my docking station where I park some of my sticks I use daily and post it sometime.
I've suffered from a few severe cases of hoof-n-mouth. I imagine purt' near everyone has. It doesn't discriminate nor does it know and monetary, political, ethnic or geographical boundaries. It cripples the best of us when we least expect it.
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/2ziddow.jpg)
I still have my 4x8 double oval leaning against the wall. I'm going to get my Bachmann Geep and my 2-10-2 Light Steamer out. I haven't heard and bells, whistles of chuffing in a week - except for the train just east of the house. I'd get my Russian out also but it's on a shelf somewhere at Bachmann repair. I called today and asked about my repair order number 10311 and was told the techs were in the 103s and it shouldn't be long now. I need a HO fix.
Rick
p.s. ya think this is disguised enough to look like a real loco / train message?
A stick docking station? Why didn't I think of that? You could put little booties on the sticks to represent golf clubs. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Does your layout fold up against the wall or is its edge at the wall? I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't run my trains. Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Have you ever seen an ugly grown man cry? Not a pretty site :'( :'( :'(
And to get back to the thread, are you going for the atlas switch machines and the digitrax ds-64?
Factory Direct trains has a Memorial Day sale on the Tortoise. Check it out at: http://factorydirecttrains.com/search.aspx?manufacturer=27
better prices are here
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?cat=1454&RefineBy_Manufacturer=Circuitron&RefineBy_Price=&Search= (http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?cat=1454&RefineBy_Manufacturer=Circuitron&RefineBy_Price=&Search=)
and here
http://www.nhshobbies.com/category_s/207.htm (http://www.nhshobbies.com/category_s/207.htm)
PD said:
Does your layout fold up against the wall or is its edge at the wall? I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't run my trains. Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Have you ever seen an ugly grown man cry? Not a pretty site :'( :'( :'(
And to get back to the thread, are you going for the atlas switch machines and the digitrax ds-64?
The 4x8 doesn't fold up against the wall - it stands on edge on the floor and leans up against the wall to get it out of pedestrian traffic. Someone thought this room needed vacuuming after three weeks of train running, loco & rail stock fixing, wire striping and excess tape, parts wrappers, price tags, etc. getting accidentally dropped beneath the board. I wish I had a layout that would fold against the wall. Truth is I have a window or door spaced every 3-4 feet in my room. I'm going to be forced to buy a 12x16 storage building, have it closed in, insulated and finished inside for my train room. Parents, sisters, bro-n-laws, neices and their husbands are starting to realize I'm serious about my hobby.
I ordered the DS64, Atlas #6 and #8 Custom-Line turnouts and an Atlas switch machine for each turnout. I thought they'd be in today only coming from Tulsa (55-60 miles away from my house as the crow flies south down HW 75).
Rick