I wonder who is buying those new $400 engines. Seems most model railroaders are getting long in the tooth & many are retired & really can't afford these new engines ( me included). On the other hand, most young new commers can't afford them either.
I'm not saying that there aren't engines in everyones price range, just doesn't seem there are that many that can afford these high end products. Jerry
Hey, Jerry,
I have wondered the same thing myself. The thing that amazes me is the proliferation of RTR everything. Built up boxcars can be 35 bucks, more for passenger cars. I find that I am getting much more discriminating. I'd much rather have a few really good cars and locos than a whole roundhouse full of engines that didn't run worth a hoot. For a while I thought I could buy bottom shelf RTR and upgrade it myself, but it turns out that's not really cost effective. It's the old economy of scale thing. Bachmann can get a much better deal on 10,000 decoders than I can on 2.
And I'll tell you this. I don't think the hobby is real healthy. Have you noticed the decrease in MR's size every month? RMC is shrinking, too, but not as fast. The little guys aren't advertising. And in the model railroad industry, even the "big guys" aren't really big...just better known. It's enough to give me one of pd's headaches.
Rusty
I believe you are talking retail prices. Any examples?
Rich
Well, for example, the being a Bachmann board and all...all prices are MSRP. I know that discounts are widely avaiable, but the proportional difference ought to be about the same.
Bachmann sells its FT for $44 without a decoder. They sell the same engine with a baseline decoder for $69. That means that I have to use my time and gas to find an appropriate decoder, buy it and pay sales tax, get it home, and spend more time installing it....all for $25. If I buy on line I'll probably dodge the sales tax, but have to pay postage and lose more time. And if I want a decoder with more features...? Well, that for sure isn't going to be any bargin.
A non-Bachmann example:
Proto 2000 F-7's (hardly a bottom shelf item) are $300 for an A-B set, straight DC. They'll gladly add DCC and sound for 50 bucks/unit. I sure can't do it for that.
Rusty
I have seen $400.00 Spectrum sound locos and can be bought for quite less if you are a good shopper.
Some pepole like paying retail. I do not.
Rich
We'll you know though, those costly locomoitves are basically as good as it gets and I do know many modelers that are only satisfied with that perfection (that somewhat includes me) exept I like to think I'm a good shopper because not one of my top of the line locomotives were bought at full price. It Is very possible to find those locomotives on sale. I think atearn genesis is about as good as it gets and also as expensive running at about $180-$300. At the past train show I managed to score an sd70m for $95 brand new, yet I wouldn't really pay full price even for that.
Don't chock on this one. I just purchased a B&M Bachmann 44 tonner with Decoder for $30.50 including shipping and no tax from the favorite spot. If you look around and are patient, there are a lot of good deals out there. My 4-4-0 and 2-10-0 were each under $60 with shipping and there own decoders.
Quote from: rustyrails on May 10, 2009, 11:07:19 PM
And I'll tell you this. I don't think the hobby is real healthy. Have you noticed the decrease in MR's size every month? RMC is shrinking, too, but not as fast. The little guys aren't advertising. And in the model railroad industry, even the "big guys" aren't really big...just better known. It's enough to give me one of pd's headaches.
I wonder whether this is a reflection of the state of the hobby, or a reflection of the decline of print media overall? Look at all the newspapers that are folding, and my favorite general interest magazine,
The New Yorker, is also getting thinner and thinner, with fewer and fewer advertisers.
Just thinkin' out loud here. ...
Quote from: pdlethbridge on May 11, 2009, 02:29:32 AM
Don't chock on this one. I just purchased a B&M Bachmann 44 tonner with Decoder for $30.50 including shipping and no tax from the favorite spot. If you look around and are patient, there are a lot of good deals out there. My 4-4-0 and 2-10-0 were each under $60 with shipping and there own decoders.
Like I said, there are locomotives available for all pocketbooks, I was just wondering if there were enough people able to spend that much to justify the production of these high end locos. By the way, did you see the price of the Bachmann Large Scale 2-6-6-2 ? even with the usual discount I would have to take out a loan! Not saying it's not worth it, just saying, how many can afford it.
The prices are extremely high is you look at MSRP...I used to be buddies with a lady who ran a hobby shop up north of Baltimore. She would order anything from Walthers for me for 20% off list. She said that her cost was about 60% of list so by giving the customer a 20% discount, she was doing a favor and still making a profit margin of 20% and she could live with that. In those days, I think that was probably a pretty standard split between dealers and distributors. Of course if you could deal directly with the manufacturer, you could cut out the middle man and sell for less.
Today, nothing seems to make much sense. I bought a HO Bachmann 10-wheeler that lists for around $200 for less than $50 from a dealer on e-Bay that consistently sells Bachmann stuff for very little. Now, I know he's not giving it away. So what is his real cost? Gotta Run
I am and I'm not paying MSRP for them either. I 'm in them for the detailing, the built quality and DCC/sound. It's a matter of taste I suppose. Even when I find inexpensive locos, I end up spending time and money to add DCC and sound, to the point where I will machine the wieghts to make space for speaker enclosures.
I too am wondering how many model railroaders can afford these new engines.
There was a thread not long ago addressing the rising cost of passenger cars, some readers tried to rationalize these new prices with comparisons to 1960 dollars and that when thought was given to the inflation factors prices were not that bad.
That kind of logic totally ignores these extreme increases. I shop today and pay in today's dollars.
Quote from: Pacific Northern on May 11, 2009, 03:33:07 PM
...
There was a thread not long ago addressing the rising cost of passenger cars, some readers tried to rationalize these new prices with comparisons to 1960 dollars and that when thought was given to the inflation factors prices were not that bad.....
That's just plain specious logic. As you say we shop today and spend todays hard earned dollars. I don't even want to start in on the prices of rolling stock. Then there is the total decline of kit cars. Like I said don't get me started.
If things bother me too much, I get some cheese to go with my whine. Then everything is ok. My pay check is $1995.00 a month. I have learned to shop wisely.. Rants only cause unhappiness and high blood pressure.
Rich
I prefer aged cheddar, the sharper the better.
A lot of brass and even plastic kits (walthers ) are pay in advance
I also lament the [apparent] demise of the rolling stock kit. It used to be that MDC/Roundhouse sold lots of 36' box car and reefer kits AND offered them in undecorated form. Today those same kits bring premium prices on eBay or at train shows. Why did Roundhouse decided to cease production of their kits and go RTR? I suspect that is where the market went. Why are large and expensive locomotives produced? Because the set up and tooling costs about the same for a 4-4-0 as it is for a Challenger...but the profit/sales are so much more. Simply put: Manufacturers will produce what the public will buy...and the public is buying RTR cars and expensive locomotives.
Regarding my layout: I guess I am lucky by modeling a 19th century branchline that owned numerous 4-4-0s over the years and only deviated from that norm with one 2-6-0 and (near the end of the line's existence) a 4-4-2. In its 25-year existence, the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut owned 16 engines (many were "inherited" from earlier - bankrupted - lines). Out of this number 11 were 4-4-0s, 2 were 2-4-4-Ts, 1 was a 2-6-0 and 1 was a 4-4-2. The N.D.& C probably only ran two or three locomotives at any one time. My current layout has two Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0s and the management would add a Mogul if Bachmann would produce one. That not being the case, the N.D.& C. will operate with the two Americans I mentioned for the foreseeable future.
The point I am trying to make is, given the state of my personal economy (retired w/pension + SS), I have all the locomotives I can afford. Going further, I have cut back drastically on hobby expenditures. Gone are the $175 craftsman structure kits, the 50+ nineteenth century cars on the shelf are plenty for anyone, the 12'x30" shelf layout is all I can afford (now if I would only finish it). My task, in 2009, is to work on (and operate) the layout I have. I guess I am taking a big step BACK from the hobby. Maybe it is time we all economized?
Are these the times that try men's souls?
Ray
I'll bet that MR and RMC are shrinking for two reasons - readership is down and the price of paper is very high. Many big papers like the NY Times are in serious trouble because of a decline in readers. The cost of paper is ridiculous. I chose a text book for one of my college classes and was going to order it until I saw a $140 price tag!
As for the price of trains, I remember paying $1.59 for an Athearn double door 50 foot boxcar kit (lettered for SP) when I was in high school; even the trucks had to be assembled (with a little rubber thing replacing the springs!) Today's model railroaders don't want to fuss around with kits; they want instant gratification and why not? For what you pay for some HO rolling stock it should put itself on the rails!
Kadee box car prices take my breath away. People today want cars that come out of the box and go on the rails without so much as tweaking the couplers. There must be buyers out there or they wouldn't sell the stuff.
Maybe it's a chicken-or-egg question, but I still would find it fascinating to know which came first, the manufacturers started making more ready-to-run stuff (because they could increase their profit margin?), and consumers started buying, or did consumers stop buying kits (because the pace of modern life has picked up to the point that a lot of people who like trains don't even want to invest the time in a screw-driver kit, let alone a craftsman kit), so manufacturers switched over to ready-to-run? ???
It's interesting that this post evolved into a Kit vs RTR debate.
So I'll put my 2cents in (all I have left after visiting the train store)
I'm an old timer & I always thought of assembling kits or scratchbuilding as part of the hobby, not a necessary evil. It's a shame that this part of the hobby has gone by the wayside. Alot of the Athearn RTR cars are actually former Roundhouse kits. They add metal wheels & plastic knuckle couplers & raise the price 100 to 200%. I throw the plastic couplers away, so I'm supposed to pay $8 to $10 for someone to assemble a 15min. kit. Even the structures are going that way & we even have snap together track with ballast. Looks like we are heading to a scale Thomas layout. Jerry
Maybe the bad economy will bring back kits. My favorite kits are Red Caboose, followed by Protos and then Intermountain. They were 10$ on sale and the detail was either perfect or alterable to be perfect with little effort. My dealer told me 10 years ago or so that the kits weren't selling. I bought what I could then and now I scavenge trainshows for them. Also I have been adding details to old AHM,Bachmann,Roco and other less detailed model freight cars.
Wade
A really neat detail item to add to freight cars is the Kadee roof walks. Really make a world of difference. They are extremely thin, have the side extentions attached & free standing roof grabs attached. Only problem is getting the mounting holes in the right place. Add these walks & wire grab irons & you have made "a silk purse out of a sows ear" so to speak
You know what i call outrageous? this! http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/mar/mar37993.htm what is so special!?!?!?! ??? >:( when at train world you can get a better model at train world for $300! What were they thinking ???.
Don Tichy has kits and detail parts, including roof walks and ladders. You can download his complete catalog.
http://www.tichytraingroup.com/
One can buy a BLI brass hybrid New Haven 4-6-4 for $330 or pay $1300 for it with a display case in which the engine can be run. ::)
Thanks Bob for the link. I am looking for round-topped windows for my Hopewell Junction (NY) scratchbuilding project and have come up dry. Perhaps Tichey's windows will fill the bill...I'll check another day.
$1,100 for an HO locomotive is another sad indicator of where our priorities have gone. The economy is in recession, people are losing their homes, and some manufacturer still thinks he can get an outrageous price for a toy. Face it people...they are toys (unless your trains haul paying freight for some very small people). Sure model railroading is a great hobby - and the realism of some products is unbelievable. Our hobby goes a long way in helping us cope with life's stress. I know, I know...we operate our trains (which is just a euphemism for playing with them...be an adult and admit it). On the other hand, that $1,100 locomotive will be bought by someone who is in a much higher socioeconomic place than I.
Now if you'll excuse me I am going to go play with my trains and pretend I am in the 19th century...it sure feels good to finally admit that in public.
Cheers,
Ray
"Hello everyone, I'm a trainaholic, will someone please help me?" :D
Hey Bob,
Sounds to me like you need your trip to Caboose Hobbies a little early this month.
Clif
Quote from: CNE Runner on May 13, 2009, 10:46:53 AM
$1,100 for an HO locomotive is another sad indicator of where our priorities have gone. The economy is in recession, people are losing their homes, and some manufacturer still thinks he can get an outrageous price for a toy. Face it people...they are toys (unless your trains haul paying freight for some very small people). Sure model railroading is a great hobby - and the realism of some products is unbelievable. Our hobby goes a long way in helping us cope with life's stress. I know, I know...we operate our trains (which is just a euphemism for playing with them...be an adult and admit it). On the other hand, that $1,100 locomotive will be bought by someone who is in a much higher socioeconomic place than I.
Now if you'll excuse me I am going to go play with my trains and pretend I am in the 19th century...it sure feels good to finally admit that in public.
Cheers,
Ray
I'm with you, Ray. Thanks for having the guts to say that out loud.
And I'm sure you intended no offense to the real artists and craftsmen and -women in the hobby. Nor do I.
When you talk about prices like $1100 for an HO-scale locomotive, I'm suddenly remembering the old saying about the difference between men and boys being the price of their toys. ;D
;DGREETINGS!! ???$1100.00 does seem a bit expensive!! :DShucks!! On my budget, even $100.00 seems expensive!! It has to really be something for me to spend that much!! :o
THANX!!
8) Ernie
Thanks for the reply Jeff...I was worried that, in my frustration, I had ruffled some feathers - which was not my intent. And you are correct in saying there are some real craftsmen, artists, and women in the hobby. I only wish I had 1/100th of the model railroading talent Rod Stewart exhibits (his Songbook CDs are wonderful as well).
Ernie, I feel your pain. Not too long ago $100 was an amount of money that didn't even make my personal radar screen...my how times have changed.
Bob, I'll give you my special counseling fee of $75/half-hour. I'm sure we can work on your addictive issues. If we are unsuccessful, just think how far my fees will go toward my own layout. Just kidding...I know where you are coming from.
Thanks everyone for letting me blow off some hot air...no harm meant.
Ray
I've been "on the wagon", haven't bought a new locomotive for 3 months. I can't take it anymore, gotta have a fix. :P
I ordered a couple Genesis SD70Mac, but they won't be in until November. >:(
Seriously, there are still locomotives and rolling stock for every budget. Remember there will always be people who have more dollars than sense.
I asked a salesman at Caboose Hobbies if the $5000+ brass locomotives were only bought by millionaires. He replied, "no, just by those who think they are".
Ray, I'm "ok", it's the rest of the world that's nuts. :D
My fix will be here tomorrow or Friday. The $30 DCC equipped 44 tonner from the Favorite Spot
Well, model railroading has went up in cost along with everything else. My dad, who retired from Southern Railway, died in 1979 and was born in 1905. I have an $18,000 HO layout I have built over the past 7 years and it's kind of a memorial to him, as all of it is in a Southern Railway format. I've had to just stop spending on it because of the rising costs of the hobby. But anyway my dad had a phrase he used to state all the time about the cost of living. He said that there was only two things left that you could buy for a nickel and that was a pack of gum or bag of peanuts. He would say, " Mark my words boy, the day will come when a man will have to pay for a drink of water!" Do you reckon he would turn over in his grave if he could see those prices now? I'm 60 years old now and I gave $50 for my first automobile, a 52 Studebaker. When gas went over $4 per gallon last year, it took around $80 just to fill my old farm truck up! So life goes on an on, I guess.
Quote from: Yampa Bob on May 13, 2009, 05:14:44 PM
Remember there will always be people who have more dollars than sense.
You can say that twice and mean it!
Quote from: chuff_n_puff on May 14, 2009, 05:43:59 AM
I gave $50 for my first automobile, a 52 Studebaker.
Gee, I wonder what a '52 Studebaker would be worth today? ???
You know, i have some old model railroader magazines that are 1950-1980 style from a flea market back in 2007. Got 50 for $20. Some were in bad shape and smell like mildew. Anyway i look at these and some engines were barley $20! What in the world!?! And the sets were $15! What ever happened? I would think Thomas would be $5-$10! they would sell out fast! :P
Hmmm. In 1955, I would have had to work 6 hours and 40 minutes to earn enough to buy a $5.00 Thomas the Tank engine (minimum wage was $.75 per hour.) Today at minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) I would have to work 4 hours and 34 minutes to buy a $29.95 Thomas. In terms of hours worked, that $5.00 Thomas was almost 50% more expensive.
Based on hours worked, today's $400 locomotive was only $41 in 1955. But lets compare that with a locomotive costing $20 in 1955. The $20 locomotive was a diesel, probably an Athearn with a "hi-f" rubber band drive which would do zero or 160 with nothing in between. The details were all cast on, the motor dimmed lights throughout the neighborhood, and the sound effects were gear whine and growl. The locomotive worth $41 in 1955 has more details than 1955 brass, a quiet, efficient motor and gear train that can run smoothly at 1 mph and up, and the sound effects are true to life and limited only by the number of push buttons on your throttle. Which is the better value for the number of hours worked? You tell me.
I too am living on a pension. That means I have to prioritize. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I drive a 17 year old car. And I am lucky enough to live in a country with medicare. If I want a locomotive that costs $400, I buy it. I may think about it long and hard, I definitely shop around for best price, I often take a large swallow just before finally making the commitment, but I buy it. Having said that, I should also point out that the locomotives and their control system are the large expenses in my model railroading. I love scratch building and get many hours of model railroad entertainment and a well populated railway at very little cost as a result.
Bottom line, I think we live in a wonderful time to be in model railroading. Excellent models are available in all price ranges. If we want the BMWs, we can somehow afford them. If we want to or must spend our money elsewhere, we can still afford the Volkswagons. And if we cannot afford any model railroading at all, we can still meet here for free and talk about it.
Jim
Indeed, the bottom line is disposable income.
Now that I am retired I have no bills, house is paid for. Bought a new car last year and that is also paid for. The kids are all grown up and have excellent paying jobs so I need not worry about their futures.
My disposable income on my pension is substantially more than when I was working and raising a family.
Now where is that new engine I saw advertised?
I'll admit it, I've dished out cash for expensive locomotives.
However, on my model railroad, I'd rather have good running, nicely detailed locomotives, as opposed to poor running poorly detailed locomotives. For those not interested in detail or operation, then a 12$ Life Like F40 may be ideal, but I prefer to watch a high detailed train, crawling down street trackage.
Because of the high cost of locomotives I severely down sized my plans. Unless people have A LOT of money to expend, building a large layouts on a small budget can yield poor visual and operational results, but building a layout that is smaller than your budget can allow for more detailed scenes, and a better running railroad.
It all comes down to what the CEO of the Model Railroad wants.
Rant Out!
Quote from: Guilford Guy on May 14, 2009, 03:48:41 PM
It all comes down to what the CEO of the Model Railroad wants.
Sure enough! It's just like Yampa Bob says: "Rule #1. It's our railroad. Rule #2. Refer to Rule #1." :)
(Thanks and a tip o' the hat to Yampa Bob. I love his philosophy!)
Quote from: Jim Banner on May 14, 2009, 11:39:56 AM
Hmmm. In 1955, I would have had to work 6 hours and 40 minutes to earn enough to buy a $5.00 Thomas the Tank engine (minimum wage was $.75 per hour.) Today at minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) I would have to work 4 hours and 34 minutes to buy a $29.95 Thomas. In terms of hours worked, that $5.00 Thomas was almost 50% more expensive.
Based on hours worked, today's $400 locomotive was only $41 in 1955. But lets compare that with a locomotive costing $20 in 1955. The $20 locomotive was a diesel, probably an Athearn with a "hi-f" rubber band drive which would do zero or 160 with nothing in between. The details were all cast on, the motor dimmed lights throughout the neighborhood, and the sound effects were gear whine and growl. The locomotive worth $41 in 1955 has more details than 1955 brass, a quiet, efficient motor and gear train that can run smoothly at 1 mph and up, and the sound effects are true to life and limited only by the number of push buttons on your throttle. Which is the better value for the number of hours worked? You tell me.
I too am living on a pension. That means I have to prioritize. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I drive a 17 year old car. And I am lucky enough to live in a country with medicare. If I want a locomotive that costs $400, I buy it. I may think about it long and hard, I definitely shop around for best price, I often take a large swallow just before finally making the commitment, but I buy it. Having said that, I should also point out that the locomotives and their control system are the large expenses in my model railroading. I love scratch building and get many hours of model railroad entertainment and a well populated railway at very little cost as a result.
Bottom line, I think we live in a wonderful time to be in model railroading. Excellent models are available in all price ranges. If we want the BMWs, we can somehow afford them. If we want to or must spend our money elsewhere, we can still afford the Volkswagons. And if we cannot afford any model railroading at all, we can still meet here for free and talk about it.
Jim
Yes i was sort of kidding :P. I don't have a job and i look at these and think how much fun some of these models would be to have. I do understand cheap models....tough truth :(. A dockside i got($20ish) was alright but has horrible pick up. And my F7A&B unit ($70ish) is running for its second year and works like new. The facts are true. You wanna good engine its gonna cost you. I agree its worth it all the way ;)! I have no job so...you get my point :)
Quote from: Woody Elmore on May 12, 2009, 11:25:36 AM
I'll bet that MR and RMC are shrinking for two reasons - readership is down and the price of paper is very high. Many big papers like the NY Times are in serious trouble because of a decline in readers. The cost of paper is ridiculous. I chose a text book for one of my college classes and was going to order it until I saw a $140 price tag!
As for the price of trains, I remember paying $1.59 for an Athearn double door 50 foot boxcar kit (lettered for SP) when I was in high school; even the trucks had to be assembled (with a little rubber thing replacing the springs!) Today's model railroaders don't want to fuss around with kits; they want instant gratification and why not? For what you pay for some HO rolling stock it should put itself on the rails!
Kadee box car prices take my breath away. People today want cars that come out of the box and go on the rails without so much as tweaking the couplers. There must be buyers out there or they wouldn't sell the stuff.
I actually bought this kit for a nice 1950 era B&O boxcar kit and as i was talking to my dad, the worker there said"Teenagers buying kits?!? Am i in the right time period?"( I'm tall so yeah...it should have been kid,12 at time...lol)(starts to chuckle.) Do you go to a rail club or something? (i wish :-[) "no" i said. Then we talked about this local club and how they come there. The kit was on sale for $5.99 so i thought what the heck......buy it! ;D. so i did and it was alot of fun to work on! :) And when it ran i thought it looked nice! :) It's not like they make the same model's ready to run...true? Anyway i don't know why people don't buy them. hard but fun! :) ;) ;D
Quote from: jettrainfan on May 15, 2009, 06:05:52 PMAnyway i don't know why people don't buy them. hard but fun! :) ;) ;D
You answered your own question... Its too hard, and takes too much time for them. Some people don't have time or patience, or just want to run trains. Its a personal preference... I prefer scratchbuilding and kitbashing, others don't.
Alex , have you done a ambroid kit yet?
You answered your own question... Its too hard, and takes too much time for them. Some people don't have time or patience, or just want to run trains. Its a personal preference... I prefer scratchbuilding and kitbashing, others don't.
[/quote]
Well....maybe... if you pay attention it's easy it took me 20 minutes but it was a first. my second try took 10. Besides, it makes you know that you built it. something to be proud of like scratch built models...YOU BUILT IT! ;D ;D ;D
I have actually. I did one of their commuter coaches, but it never really liked the club trackage and is currently in a box in the attic. I got two kits, however one was in worse condition than the other, and the one in better condition was missing a few major components, so I combined the two... I'm excited for the NEW kits, with Laser Cut pieces and whatnot. Should be exciting!
Peace,
Alex
I don't buy $400 locos, but notice prices generally are much higher than just a few years ago. Seems to be fewer rolling stock kits and more RTR rolling stock - I don't like to pay $35 for a boxcar. :-[ :-[ :-[
Quote from: Les on May 16, 2009, 03:20:26 PM
I don't buy $400 locos, but notice prices generally are much higher than just a few years ago. Seems to be fewer rolling stock kits and more RTR rolling stock - I don't like to pay $35 for a boxcar. :-[ :-[ :-[
Yeah, literally those cars add up...nothing special about them... :(
Quote from: jettrainfan on May 16, 2009, 11:59:27 PMYeah, literally those cars add up...nothing special about them... :(
Thank you for that enlightening post!
Someone may choose RTR over Kits because of
Time
Skill Level
Detail
Some people don't have time to build everything to run on their railroad
Some people don't have the skill level to build a car with all the grab irons and whatnot that are found on the new RTR cars
Most kits(excluding red caboose, and some other manufacturers) do not have the level of detail found on RTR.
$35 a boxcar really is an overstatement. Even Kadee cars retail for less than that, and most RTR cars are in the 10-20 dollar range.
I have to say Im not at all against rtr especially athearn. most rtr is still expensive and isn't much greater than a good old kit but atearns new tooling is absolutly amazing. Their modern tank cars for example now feature ALL the metal handrails of the prototype, all the pipes, and my favorite all walkways are etched metal, overall a perfect car for the great price of $20. By looking through all the athearn cars at a lhs you can easily see how the slightly older cars still have molded walkways and handgrabs and pretty much assembled versions of the blue box kits but then there's the new ones at the same price that suddenly have metal hand rails and etched walkways. So old rtr is not great but honestly I love this improved rtr an I would never have the patiences to do all that work put into building and applying all those details that the rtr now include.
Oh yeah and. As big of a rtr fan a I am I have to agree that scratchbuilding or kit building is VERY satisfying as I had tons of fun building a few old k4 wood cabooses and I am proud of them but I wouldn't be able to do that massive scale of rolling stock I have, need, and want.
My first kit was an Athearn caboose costing $7. The weight was already attached. I was happy with the result.
My second was an Accurail boxcar costing $11. I had to glue the weight but it soon fell off. A closer look revealed that the floor was warped, so I clamped the floor to the weight to make all of both surfaces touch. The couplers came in halves with the pin a third piece, the poorest couplers I've seen. When they open, they stay open & must be closed by hand.
Quote from: Guilford Guy on May 17, 2009, 01:41:32 AM
Quote from: jettrainfan on May 16, 2009, 11:59:27 PMYeah, literally those cars add up...nothing special about them... :(
Thank you for that enlightening post!
Someone may choose RTR over Kits because of
Time
Skill Level
Detail
Some people don't have time to build everything to run on their railroad
Some people don't have the skill level to build a car with all the grab irons and whatnot that are found on the new RTR cars
Most kits(excluding red caboose, and some other manufacturers) do not have the level of detail found on RTR.
$35 a boxcar really is an overstatement. Even Kadee cars retail for less than that, and most RTR cars are in the 5-20 dollar range.
Wow! I was talking about $35 dollar cars not kits!anyway kits really don't have much detailing not added. For my B&O boxcar....a wheel(brake wheel.). So yeah some are harder than others...but everyone has their own opinions...Am i right? ;D
Quote from: WGL on May 17, 2009, 02:59:35 AMThe couplers came in halves with the pin a third piece, the poorest couplers I've seen. When they open, they stay open & must be closed by hand.
That shouldn't be the case. Each Coupler half has a whisker, and every Accu-Mate coupler I've used closes on its own.
Quote from: jettrainfan on May 17, 2009, 10:18:53 AMWow! I was talking about $35 dollar cars not kits!anyway kits really don't have much detailing not added. For my B&O boxcar....a wheel(brake wheel.). So yeah some are harder than others...but everyone has their own opinions...Am i right? ;D
Okay, and I was saying most RTR cars are not more than $20.
Sure, Kadee and Intermountain sell for 25 or 30, but the majority of RTR rolling stock sells for $10-$20. Like Tyler said the new tooling on the Athearn is very good, and dishing out $15 for a very well detailed car is not something I'm against. The new Boxcars and Hoppers are stunning, with scale sized grab irons, and all the braking equipment. I do enjoy a kit, but most times its for something that is unavailable in RTR, such as B&M Commuter Coaches, or Scratchbuilding a Double Track plow, or whatever it is that is on my plate.
Lastly, a lot is up to the consumer. If they walk into a shop, and pay MSRP for every item, that will get costly VERY quickly. It takes effort to shop around, and it frequently pays off... $5 Ambroid Kits, $160 for 3 Sound Equipped Atlas units, $50 for a Spectrum 2-10-2.
Peace,
Alex
Just what the hobby needs - another HO Big Boy, this one by Marklin! Is it brass? But even another brass BB at $1000+ seems a bit much. But it's Marklin - what can I say? What was their price for a USRA light Mke?
Gene
Marklin has made a big boy for the past few years, and unless Trix is also releasing it, this is a 3 rail version that no one else makes.
Quote from: Guilford Guy on May 17, 2009, 11:46:52 AM
Quote from: WGL on May 17, 2009, 02:59:35 AMThe couplers came in halves with the pin a third piece, the poorest couplers I've seen. When they open, they stay open & must be closed by hand.
That shouldn't be the case. Each Coupler half has a whisker, and every Accu-Mate coupler I've used closes on its own.
Quote from: jettrainfan on May 17, 2009, 10:18:53 AMWow! I was talking about $35 dollar cars not kits!anyway kits really don't have much detailing not added. For my B&O boxcar....a wheel(brake wheel.). So yeah some are harder than others...but everyone has their own opinions...Am i right? ;D
Okay, and I was saying most RTR cars are not more than $20.
Sure, Kadee and Intermountain sell for 25 or 30, but the majority of RTR rolling stock sells for $10-$20. Like Tyler said the new tooling on the Athearn is very good, and dishing out $15 for a very well detailed car is not something I'm against. The new Boxcars and Hoppers are stunning, with scale sized grab irons, and all the braking equipment. I do enjoy a kit, but most times its for something that is unavailable in RTR, such as B&M Commuter Coaches, or Scratchbuilding a Double Track plow, or whatever it is that is on my plate.
Lastly, a lot is up to the consumer. If they walk into a shop, and pay MSRP for every item, that will get costly VERY quickly. It takes effort to shop around, and it frequently pays off... $5 Ambroid Kits, $160 for 3 Sound Equipped Atlas units, $50 for a Spectrum 2-10-2.
Peace,
Alex
alright, i see that both of us get each others point...that's good. :) Yeah usually you gotta look around. I found a !980's snow plow by walthers and got it for $40. Still have it and it beats $60 for the same model. The $60's were baste off todays snow plows. http://www.alaskarails.org/modeling/HO-pix/ath-rotary-3.jpg And the one i got was a great northern 1950's style.