okay, I have wanted the zephyr for many months but suddenly, i realize i could save a fortune in buying the ez command. is there any major difference that would affect me?
I have about 6 locos, and an l layout with the two long sides 10 feet long.
well first of all the ez command and zepher are on totally different playing fields. i started off with the ez command and it did what its intended which is to be the bare minimum loco control system for an easy start to dcc which it did very well. however the zepher which i transitioned to is a starter system but really its a start into digitrax system that does everything. the zepher has capability way beyond the ez command like for starters the ez command can only power 2-3 locos without a booster, where the zepher can easily handle 6+. the zepher is a full dcc system with great programming capabilities, along with 4 digit addressing and thats just the start. the only downside i could see that doesent even bother me is the fact that the zepher can only be in command of one loco at a time without typing in a new locomotive whereas ez command has every loco just a push button away. also the zepher along with all digitrax is very easily expandable with loconet and extra throttles and all that good stuff. so im not saying either system is bad, im just saying that unless you have no use for all the extra features the zepher has you cant just get the ez command thinking its a way better deal because it is really basic compared to the zepher which is definetly worth the extra dollars.
While the Zephyr will only run one loco at a time as mentioned. it's a solid starting point to build on. Adding a DT400 throttle, gives one all the flexibility needed to open up all sorts of neat worm cans. EZ command and Zephyr are really apples and oranges in my book. Both do what they are designed to do. The difference is in what the user intends to do in the future, and be aware of the limitations of the systems one chooses. A zephyr will also support more than one throttle. It's really a mini command station with a built in throttle.
Mind you, this is just my opinion:
If you think you are going to stay in model railroading until you're an old guy like me, the Zephyr is a solid value. You can get an EZ Command and enjoy it, but eventually, you're going to want to do something that the EZ Command can't do. So you'll have to spring for the Zephyr or some other "starter set" that has the capabilities you need. That "good buy" you got doesn't seem so good, suddenly.
I own a Zephyr and some other Digitrax hardware going back to the mid 90's and here are some of the things that I like about it and the company in no particular order. Some may seem silly, but remember Rule 1.
1. The LocoNet architecture. LocoNet is event driven, not polled. That's pretty transparent to the user, but more efficient;
2 . Compatibility: My new Zephyr works with the Digitrax parts I bought in the mid 90's;
3. 4 digit addressing; It's so easy to use the road number for the address;
4. I think programming is easy using the Zephyr, others may not, but except for changing the address, EZ Command doesn't give you the opportunity to find out.
5. Digitrax throttles: I just really like the designs. I am especially fond of my utility throttle that is very to use one-handed without looking;
6. DCC is what Digitrax does. If they don't do it well, they're out of business.
7. Customer support. They answer e-mail right now.
8. Digitrax is an American owned and operated company.
9. Digitrax parts look like they belong on a model railroad instead of a video game.
Bottom line is it's your railroad. Do you have a friend who uses some system other than EZ Command? Go visit. Try using as many different systems as you can, including EZ Command. You'll figure out what works best for you. Hope this helps.
Rusty
There are many fine DCC systems, do not over look them.
NCE is also an US company. They make a starter system called the PowerCab that is worth a look. It is upward compatable with their other equipment. They also only do DCC.
CVP is also a US company. They are smaller operation, but have a loyal following.
While Lenz is out of Germany, thay are the ones that are the reason DCC is here.
All of them, and others, work with their customers when they have a problem.
i asked because while i know the zephyr is fancier, i have such a limited budget it is not funny.
Quote from: Daylight4449 on June 09, 2009, 03:31:45 PM
i asked because while i know the zephyr is fancier, i have such a limited budget it is not funny.
You have a limited budget, but why buy a bunch of life like locos, when you know eventually you'll need Atlas/P2k/Spectrum, and you'll have wasted money on the Life Like ones. Save up for the zephyr, you'll be able to get something with that $60 that you didn't spend on the EZ command.
I'm already an "old guy", that's why I prefer EZ Command. I have used it for almost 3 years, no menus to go through, simple one button push to acquire a loco. I don't even have to look at the controller for all functions, so I can do what model railroading is all about (to me), watching and enjoying my trains, which is a task in itself with my eyes. I'm probably an EZ Command snob but I love it, enough to buy two more just for spares. And as Rusty said, good old Rule #1.
However, today's trains and control systems offer many new challenges and possibilities to help maintain interest, so that the hobby will not become boring as there is always more to learn. Aside from those features that don't provide any benefits for me, we now have the ability to control turnouts, signals, mars and ditch lights, beacons, independent control of headlight and taillight, access all the noises incorporated in sound decoders, map function buttons, even add BEMF for switching and grades. I think the advanced controllers are great, and I hope we see even more exciting developments. (such as better manuals) >:( They're just not for me since I'm having such good success with EZ Command.
I can afford any controller I choose, and if I were 10 years younger and had my sight back, I would probably be tempted to get a Zephyr to compliment my EZ Command. All locomotives could be "tuned to the max" on a program track with Zephyr, but I could still enjoy the simplicity of running the main with EZ Command.
Bottom line, Daylight, why wait until you can afford a Zephyr when you can be enjoying the benefits of DCC now? Litchfield has EZ Command for $80 and no shipping charges.
Well put, Bob.
Rusty
CV snob here. Bob, Bob, Bob, What am I going to do with you? If you had bought the Power Cab first instead of 3 ez commands we wouldn't be having this discussion. Deep, deep, deep down inside you have a lust to change CV's. Don't deny it, you know it's true. I bet you're counting you loose change right now to see if you can get the Power Cab. :o :o :o :o :o
Daylight, I started DCC with EZ Command & like its simplicity & ease of use. I think the discounted price is about $80. I went on eBay & bought a used one for $40; it has worked well for 10 months so far. I think I've gotten my money's worth already. As my layout grew & I added several locomotives with sound, I bought Bachmann's 5 amp booster, which cost about 3 times as much as my EZ Command!
Among the cheapest locomotives with sound are BLI's BlueLine DC with sound. I've bought two, but I also bought DCC decoders to install. I discovered that, if I wanted them to perform like my locomotives that came with DCC, I would have to get a DCC system that would program. I decided to get the Digitrax Zephyr. I could not find it cheaper on eBay than from an Internet store, $155. I immediately programmed my BLI locos to have momentum for gradual starts & stops to avoid uncouplings.
The Zephyr will give you 2.5 amps to run more locomotives than EZ Command's 1.5. Some say EZ Command actually puts out only 1 amp.
here are reasons that i chose the zephyr over the other systems on the market.
first of all, it is the most cost effective system for what your initial outlay is.
you have a full capability dcc system at a reasonable price, with the added bonus that you can use your existing dc power packs as 2 additional throttles. with most others, additional throttles cost an extra $100 or so, EACH. since you probably have the power packs that came with your original train set, that's one less thing you have to buy.
second, while you may only have a couple of locomotives, the zephyr has features that will allow you to get the most flexibility out of them. it supports consisting, the ability to have two locomotives controlled as one on the same train. i don't believe ez command does that. you can also use the locomotive number as the address. ez command doesn't do that either.
the question was asked, why do i need 9999 possible addresses? the answer is simple. it is much easier to look at locomotive #3798, and program that number into your controller than it is to try to remember exactly WHAT number controls 3798 on a lesser system.
third, the zephyr, while an entry level system, is fully expandable as your finances allow. do you REALLY want to have to buy another dcc system when you outgrow the cheap one? i don't......
4th, you have a locomotive that runs faster than the rest and want to slow it down so it runs like the others? do you want effects like momentum? easily done with the zephyr.
i can fully understand the cost concerns. it delayed my own conversion to dcc for many years. i looked at many different systems to see what was most cost effective before i bought, and i chose the zephyr.....
I think Bachmann should read this thread because it appears that there is a market between EZ-Command and Dynamis that can be purchased as an add on to EZ-Command without having to replace your entire investment.
What I would like to see is a Zephyr like product that work with existing EZ-Command and EZ-Command companions.
I already have 7 locomotives, and will probably run out of address space in a year or two. If Bachmann were to release a product with features similar to the Zephyer but allowed me to set shortcut addresses I could have 4 digit addresses and CV programming when I want to and simple use when I don't. I would have no problem setting a secondary shortcut address for exisiting EZ-Command/Companions (i.e. something that maps 1 on the EZ Command to the four digit address 3507).
I would definitely buy something like this if Bachmann were to make it.
i second that thought. while i am invested in digitrax and wouldn't buy one now, if such a system had been available when i was looking i would have seriously considered it and might have bought. especially if it came with a dcc on board locomotive......
Lenz LH90 throttle has that feature. You can toggle between 8 addresses by pressing a button (forgot the name at the moment, will look later), and use a wheel similar to the EZ Commands to control speed. LH100 throttles can toggle between 2 locos by pressing "ESC" and uses buttons to control speed. Both have screens.
I have the Bachmann EZ command and love it. However, I think I am ready to move on from it. I am not sure I will go to the dark side and go CV crazy ( I admit it though, I do want to go to the dark side start learning about those CV's it looks and sounds right up my ally)
The BACHMANN EZ COMMAND DYNAMIS WIRELESS CONTROLLER 36505 is what I am looking at now and have been watching them on eBay go for around $100. But I have taken a liking to the Super Empire Builder Advanced Set or theSuper Chief Super LocoNet Sets
Yampa Bob- You use 3 EZ commands or did I read that wrong.
Ya, but I think he'll be going to the dark side soon. :o :o :o :o :o
Robert,
Yes, I picked up two spares at $60 each on a special event sale. It's been my experience in life that when I find something I really like, it gets discontinued. I think they call it "planned obsolescence". I'm not taking any chances this time.
oh , and I thought you were heading to the dark side! ::) ::) ::) ::)
The Digitrax Super Chief has one very large advantage over the Super Empire Builder and that is its ability to read back CVs. The Chief's other advantages over the Super Empire Builder are usually important only if you are using it on a club layout. Unless you need the extra power to run old, current hog locomotives or to run many double headed trains, the Digitrax Zephyr is a better choice than the Super Empire Builder. Like the Super Chief, the Zephyr has a full featured command station complete with CV read back and separate programming track. The Super Empire Builder is based on a booster with basic command station capabilities. This is reflected in the part numbers of the command stations - the Zephyr is a DCS50 (Digital Command Station 50), the Super Chief uses the DCS100 (Digital Command Station 100) while the Super Empire Builder uses the DB150 (Digital Booster 150.)
Depending on your layout and what you want to do with it, the Zephyr could be a contender as well. I bought my first Zephyr along with a pair of utility throttles to run a medium sized home layout. By adding a couple of jump throttles (virtually free) the four fellows I model with and I were each able to operate a train at the same time. The two jump throttles and the built in throttle of the Zephyr were assigned to switcher service in three of the towns while the two utility throttles were used for through trains that the operators had to follow from room to room. We had enough power to run the 8 to 10 car trains that single locomotives could pull over the grades in my mountainous railway. We could have used up to 10 throttles if we had wanted to, but would have been shy on power.
As out operating sessions expanded, we wanted to move more cars and add a couple of additional trains. More cars meant double heading and more trains meant still more locomotives. So I finally had to either add a booster or upgrade the command station. As I was also using the Zephyr with an MRC booster to run an outdoor layout, and on occasion ran both layouts at once, I opted for a DCS200. This is the command station used in the Super Empire Builder 8 amp version. I chose this for my indoor layout because it is capable currentwise of running my outdoor layout if my MRC booster should fail. But the 8 amp rating did mean adding power management hardware to restrict the current fed to the H0 track (8 amps is just too much for H0.) It was a big step upwards - enough power to run at least 16 locomotives at one time and enough slots to support up to 120 throttles at once, in other words, more than I will ever use. But a great thing about this step upwards was that I already knew how to use the DCS200 - Digitrax had the good sense to make the Zephyr's operating system virtually identical to the Super Chief's. Even better, ALL the Digitrax accessories that I had accumulated over the years to go with my Zephyr all work with the Super Chief - the utility throttles, the top of the line DT400 radio throttles (two throttles in once package,) the radio receivers, the infrared receivers, and even the Zephyr itself which can act as a throttle or a 2.5 amp booster or even both at the same time. (I am not sure if the non-Digitrax jump throttles will work with the Super Chief with a Zephyr in the system - they were a great stop gap measure when I first bought the Zephyr but have since been replaced by Digitrax throttles.) No planned obsolescence here - all the new goodies that are on Digitrax's horizon will also work with what I have, thanks to Digitrax's commitment to their LocoNet which links them all together.
Do I sound enthusiastic? You betcha!
Jim
p.s. In all honesty, I should point out that the E-Z Command is a great starter set - low cost and easy to learn. But I figure that once a person is past the starter set stage, he/she is probably in a long term relationship with model railroading and should be looking at systems that are willing to make long term commitments as well.
J
Jim
Thank you for the very informative information. The one thing I want a system to do from time to time (when maybe company is over) is to be able to have the train run completely on its own including stopping at stations and having different routes in a sort program mode. Now that's probably at least a year away before I need to upgrade.
Some people feel its a waste of money upgrading from system to system which in many cases true. But I have had great like selling my used stuff on eBay or even trading it.
jim,
when i bought my zephyr, i made some inquiries to digitrax and they told me that you can use the zephyr as a booster and throttle with other digitrax command stations. you can also use the jump throttles if you are using the zephyr as the master, and the other unit as the slave. both throttles would be able to pick up and dispatch locomotives in the normal way but all programming would be through the zephyr. in that way, you still have the utility of the jump throttles, with the expanded capacity of the larger unit. that was important to me as the unit i was concidering upgrading to, the empire builder, didn't offer readback from the decoders, and i was experimenting with some pretty elaborate programming at the time.
Sorry, Bob, if I ruffled your feathers. In my books, what puts you past the starter set stage is the point when a starter set is no longer sufficient to run your layout the way you want to run it. As you have told us who read this forum, your layout can be run to your satisfaction with your E-Z Command. No problems there. As to why E-Z Command is considered a "starter set," that is because it is easy to learn, a real bonus when you are starting out and are busy learning everything else about model railroading at the same time. E-Z Command is also a starter set because it is an affordable introduction to DCC, usually at a time when your model railroad is suffering from high startup costs. But low cost and easy learning curve come at a price, namely a reduction in capabilities. That in turn defines E-Z Command as a starter set by saying what it is not - it is not a full featured advanced set. This does not imply that you will ever need an advanced set, no matter how long you are in model railroading. Just like you don't need to buy a Harley if a Honda will do what you want to do.
However, if you want to do more than your railroad, or more specifically, its operating system, will let you do, then you do need to go past the starter set to do it. You may never reach that point, but if you do, be careful which system you choose. I started off in DCC with an MRC Command 2000, a starter set which was simple to use and could run my railroad as it was at that time. However, times change. A few years later, my layout had grown and I wanted to do more with it. But MRC no longer supported the Command 2000, they had switched to another system with no compatibility. I briefly considered their new system (which also was replaced by yet another incompatible system a few years later) but fortunately went with Digitrax, based on their history of backward and forward compatibility. That means I can add pieces to my existing DCC system as my railroad grows and what I want to do with it develops. I do not have to replace every single piece every few years because the manufacturer has changed his mind. My present H0 layout, which celebrates its 25 birthday this year, is still growing and my use of it is still developing. And, God willing, this will go on for some more years still.
Jim
Edit: remove "time after time" and "likely to remain so"
Thanks, Jeffery, for letting us know. That makes sense and may explain why people who upgrade their Zephyr by buying a DB150 (Super Empire Builder command station) usually use the Zephyr as the command station and the DB150 in booster mode.
To properly understand the Zephyr, people need to think of it as three pieces - a command station, a throttle, and a booster - all in one box. As part of a larger system, you can use any one, two or three of those pieces.
Robertj668, one of the ways of automating your layout is to use an old computer, a program like JMRI or Railroad and Co., and an interface between your command station and computer. For Digitrax, that interface would be a PR-3 or a Locobuffer-USB or some others. This method allows a great deal of flexibility in what you can program the trains to do. But the more you want to do, the more hardware you will require to tell the computer where the trains are and what other things are happening on the layout that may affect train operation (turnout positions, conflicting track assignments etc.)
For simpler things, like station stops, it is possible to use decoders that implement the stop on dc command. This will allow you to slow a train to a stop at a preprogrammed deceleration rate simply by switching the stopping block of track to dc when you want the train to stop and switching it back to DCC when you want the train to accelerate at a programmed rate up to a preset speed. I believe Lenz is one of the few manufacturers of stop on dc decoders.
With Digitrax you can use a DB150 to send a stop all trains command to a stopping block when you want them to stop in that block and your regular command station to send signals to the same stopping block when you want them to go again. This, by the way, is one of the few cases where you can have two command stations controlling the same track, albeit on a alternating basis. The advantage of the Digitrax method is that is allows you to use any type of decoder. The downside is the price of a DB150, unless you already have one as a booster or as a spare. You can use a single DB150 to control multiple stopping blocks. The only other hardware you need is one relay per stopping block to switch the block between the DB150 and the regular command station and some method of detecting when the train(s) should stop and when it/they should go again. This could be as simple as stopping the east bound train at the station when it is detected as being on the station siding and keeping it stopped until the west bound train is detected as having passed the station.
Jim
Jim, this may very well be my longest post ever.
No, your earlier post did not "ruffle my feathers". However, I will admit that the statement in your next post did. (I detected a slight twitch of one tail feather)
You wrote: "As you have told us time after time, your layout can be run to your satisfaction with your E-Z Command and is likely to remain that way."
I realize we are separated by a common language, but down here that has the connotation of "I'm tired or bored of hearing it". but since you used the word "us", it implies that "We are tired of hearing it". When someone says "we" or "us", I usually ask if they have a mouse in their pocket. :D
There are thousands of modelers using EZ Command, I don't hear them objecting to my repeated support of the system. I also don't recall there being any set limits about stating preferences. New members show up with the same concern about where to start, and the discussion starts all over again.
Now we have a "double standard", you know, when it's ok for one person to repeatedly speak their preferences ad infinitum but not ok for another to do likewise.
Think about it, is this any different from the fact that time after time you and others have extolled the virtues of advanced systems and elaborated on the limitations of EZ Command? I have never criticized other's choice of how to operate their railroad, in fact I specifically said that I support you and others who enjoy the greater capabilities of advanced systems 100%. Now wouldn't it be nice to support me likewise in my success with EZ Command, perhaps as an example for others considering DCC?
Early in life, Dale Carnegie taught me to never start a comment with "I disagree", or the worst "You're wrong". You once mentioned that you and I disagreed on certain things. I never say to someone "I disagree with you", that would be counterproductive as it would imply that I'm right and they're wrong. I have only stated my preferences. It would be pretty boring if everyone had the exact same layout, the same system, and the same plan of operations.
Next, you cannot validate the comment, "likely to remain that way". Have I not mentioned before that if and when I reach the point of needing or wanting an advanced system I would buy one? Many people have a tendency to be easily bored with what they have, or their status in life, they are always looking for "something better", or as they say "The grass is greener on the other side of the fence". Before (or if) I move up, I intend to squeeze the last drop of usefullness from my EZ Command.
"Am I enthusiastic? You betcha". Pardon my plagiarism, (thanks spell check)
Neither you or anyone else can predict what I am "likely to do". That is for me to know, and others to find out, if I decide to tell them. As my wife just reminded me, I don't even know what I may do next week, as I may change my mind depending on circumstances. (if you're curious, she has to type many of my posts)
For all you or anyone else knows I may already have an advanced system but choose not to boast about it. After all, this is the Bachmann Forum, though judging from the posts, it might be more aptly named "Digitrax Forum". (I see few comments about Dynamis). I can say that I have done enough research and study so the learning curve will be fairly short, or as they say "piece of cake".
When irritated, I usually count to 100, in this case I probably counted to 10,000, it required a lot of soul searching before replying. I deleted my previous post, but would like to repeat one concern. Other forums treat you like a second class railroader if they learn you use EZ Command. Recently I have sensed a hint of that atmosphere on this forum.
You can have "the last word", as there is nothing more for me to say on this matter. I hope you feel I have explained my feelings in a respectful tone, but as people here know "I say what I mean, and mean what I say."
I hope you also realize how difficult it is for me to hit the post button, but here goes. 8)
"Live long and prosper".
Thanks, Bob, for the invitation to respond. That was the second time this week I have been hunted down by the "objectionable language" police. I was unaware that "time after time" was objectionable to some. To me, "time after time" just means "many times," no more, no less, no compliment, no complaint. And I included that comment not to complain about how often you have talked about E-Z Command but rather to remind other readers that you are a staunch supporter of E-Z Command. A sort of counterbalance to my answering questions about Digitrax. As you say, separated by a common language.
Because you found it objectionable, I edited out "time after time." I also made changes to indicate who "we" were (no mice were hurt in this exercise.) Thirdly, I removed the "likely to remain that way" because you felt it too was objectionable. I must admit I dithered on this one, but in the end, I felt I might have misinterpreted your intention not to buy a more advanced system in the near future as a continuing satisfaction with your present system.
To set the record straight, you have never heard me object to your repeated support of E-Z Command, nor are you likely too. I, too, am a an E-Z Command owner, supporter and user and have repeatedly pointed out its advantages as a starter set, right here on this forum. And when I am teaching model railroading, I like to take along my E-Z Command when I get to the class on DCC. It demonstrates the fundamental concept behind DCC (independent control of multiple trains on a single track) without intimidating the half of the class that has trouble programming their VCR's. One E-Z Command, one oval of E-Z Track, two locomotives, and the concept sells itself.
Jim
Like a telephone, Bob knows where the buttons are and it is easier for him to run his trains. Depending on a persons needs and capabilities, EZ command is a good system. It can't program CV's. So what. If you can't read the screen to change the CV, why bother. Keep those trains a runnin, Bob.
My secretary has retired for the evening, so I must keep this brief.
Thanks, Jim. Open and honest communication truly does build stronger relationships.
Paul,
Yep, we'll keep them running. 8)
Hey you three Olde Fartes, does this mean not one of you wants to buy my Dynamis? If I can't sell it by the 27th I'll have to take it to the local once a year train show / swap meet / buy it / get it fixed / or consign it meet.
Happy Rails,
OkieRick
I own an E-Z Command. It is a good basic system that allows multiple train operation without complicated wiring; it provides sound functions and lighting functions.
I also operate both Digitrax ( not a Zephyr) and MRC, both of which provide walk around capabilities.
To respond to the original question, in my opinion save the money and get started with DCC with the E-Z Command. As your interests grow, you can always move up at a later time.
Remember Bob's rule number 2 and have fun.
Tom
OkieRick, much as I would like to buy your Dynamis to try it out, I don't dare to at this time. If my wife ever found out, there would be a tremendous mess to clean up. Sorry.
As a Canadian, I tend to use the English spelling for many words. So that would be Olde Phart, if you please. ;D
Jim
Jim,
I have been a student of etymology (origin of words), for many years, especially "Cognates" and various translations. From the Latin word for "full" or "full of it", but interesting that in Swedish, the singular word means "Speed". So there are a lot of speedy fellows on the forum. :D
However if you add "old", it translates to "Tribal Leader". It is a term of pride in first person, but an insult in second and third person usage.
We seem to have a lot of elderly "speedys" on the forum, so in Western Indian it would translate to "Too many Chiefs and not enough Braves". :D
Old Indian Chief proverb: "I am old because I have learned how to stay alive". ("Let the braves do the fighting, I'll stay in my wikiup where it's safe") 8)
Very well. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the phonetically correct Olde Phart of Canadia and the Speedy Chief of Yampa Valley for the wisdom and stability imparted onto this forum. Keep up the good work and high standards.
You too, PD.
Wado (Cherokee)
Rick