They're on display at the NGRC in Denver! Two versions - inside-frame with wood cab and outside frame with steel cab. Essentially upscaled versions of the On30 locos. They look fantastic, AND they're real Forneys, unlike LGB's where the drivers pivot under the boiler. Hats off to Bachmann. Yeah, the Maine locos were 2' gauge, and these are 3' gauge, but they're great looking locos.
Alas, my camera was not with me, so I'll have to get photos later.
Later,
K
Kevin, over here in yUK I doubt that more than one in a million of the population would notice the disparity in the track gauge.
This model really has popped out of the woodwork - I had never heard anything about it until I read your post.....
Best
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Oh yes we would notice a 15mm disparity even here in the UK. Why can't Bachman make a model of a proper 3ft ga Forney instead of distorting a 2 footer? I don't suppose it will be regaugeable so that it could be run on something approaching the correct track gauge? Sheesh. PS I bet if Bachmann made a 1:20.3 K 27 to run on 32mm or 30mm gauge there would be howls of outrage from the Garden Rail Community.
Sam E
You can see the Forney here: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=3323
Quote from: samevans on July 09, 2009, 10:39:24 AM
Oh yes we would notice a 15mm disparity even here in the UK. Why can't Bachman make a model of a proper 3ft ga Forney instead of distorting a 2 footer? I don't suppose it will be regaugeable so that it could be run on something approaching the correct track gauge? Sheesh. PS I bet if Bachmann made a 1:20.3 K 27 to run on 32mm or 30mm gauge there would be howls of outrage from the Garden Rail Community.
Sam E
Sigh.
Please read what I wrote, Sir. I wrote that 'one in a million of the population' - that means you and me, and sixty-one others who would notice. My comment was not aimed at you personally.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
I read the MSRP will be $1150? ???
$ 11 freakin 50 ???? are you kidding me??? :o
Even though theres so far no mention of DCC or sound, I dont want either, so a grand for this??? Is it gold plated? does it cook breakfast for me? There is no way I'm paying over a grand for whats basicly a saddletaner with a tender glued on! The Sadie was never more than $150 which was a fair price.
If this came out at average price of $200 I would be very tempted, but at $300 I'm back looking at the LGB Forney, if this hits the street around $600, I'm looking at two LGB Forneys...
Sheesh I'm being priced out of this hobby >:(
Nice? yes
happy? sure, why not....
I've seen many a request here and elsewhere for a Fn3 Forney, prob made one myself a time or two...
Was Bachmann listening, I'd guess so...they made it.
No wonder I've had ZERO response to my Climax and American I've got for sale.... :(
Great News! :)
If you are a member of Large Scale on Line there are over twenty pictures of the new Forney along with the detailed listing of its features.
I've contacted my dealer and placed a pre-order for one of the inside frame versions.
Vic, too rich for your blood? ;D There's always the LGB Forney of questionable scale and lacking in meaningful detail. Or, how about the little 1:24 scale version by HLW. No detail to speak of but then you get what you pay for.
One of the "Enthusiastic Children"
JD
Kind of tacky response to Vic. The scale is only 12" off as far as gauge goes. Details are cheap. My 2 cents.
Kevin
Are yuou sure of your comment that theis is a scaled up 2 ft forney. I am not so sure. Being in the North East I am familiar with the Maine 2 ft forneys as there were in ederville for a number of years before returning to Maine. I have not put a caliper to one yet but there were 3 ft gauge forneys as well. It will be interesting to compare.
Stan
Even though the MSRP is $1150, you can figure the going price will be around $600 or 7 hundred dollars. Maybe less, maybe more, depending on who you buy from.
I hope it is worth it. I passed on the 2-6-6-2T, but I will more than likely get one of these.
Bruce
$600 bucks is still $450 more than I've ever spent on any single engine :-[
Not all of us have Deep Pockets or Trust Funds :-\
No matter what price on the streets is, at that base MSRP I'm totally priced out, this is why I scratchbuild most of my stuff now...its just getting too blipity-blip expensive :o
Quote from: StanAmes on July 09, 2009, 10:24:44 PM
...Are you sure of your comment that this is a scaled up 2 ft forney...
One would assume that had Bachmann used a 3' gauge forney as a prototype for this, we'd see it lettered for the Boston, Revere Beach & Lynn, or other 3' gauge railroad that ran forneys. This particular loco is lettered for the SR&RL, and looks nearly identical to SR&RL #10, so its pretty easy to connect the dots in that regard.
If I were a betting man, I'd bet the proportions generally match the 3' gauge forneys that ran on the BRB&L and other lines, but the detailing draws from the Maine roads. It's a right attractive combination, if you ask me. I don't have BRB&L forney measurements at the top of my head, but I'll take photos and measurements of the B'mann model tomorrow and see how it measures up.
Later,
K
Quote from: Kevin Strong on July 10, 2009, 02:02:58 AM
Quote from: StanAmes on July 09, 2009, 10:24:44 PM
...Are you sure of your comment that this is a scaled up 2 ft forney...
One would assume that had Bachmann used a 3' gauge forney as a prototype for this, we'd see it lettered for the Boston, Revere Beach & Lynn, or other 3' gauge railroad that ran forneys. This particular loco is lettered for the SR&RL, and looks nearly identical to SR&RL #10, so its pretty easy to connect the dots in that regard.
Later,
K
The Boston, Revere Beach, & Lynn did not use Forneys. Most of its locos were Masons (single Fairlies) where the engine unit was articulated as well as the carrying bogie (truck).
Forneys were rigid framed tank locos, the novel feature being that both coal and water were carried in a bunker to the rear of the cab, and the locos were designed originally to run bunker forward (ie as 4-4-0 s)
Sam E
Quote from: tac on July 09, 2009, 01:26:21 PM
Quote from: samevans on July 09, 2009, 10:39:24 AM
Oh yes we would notice a 15mm disparity even here in the UK.
Sigh.
Please read what I wrote, Sir. I wrote that 'one in a million of the population' - that means you and me, and sixty-one others who would notice. My comment was not aimed at you personally.
tac
Ah, you were being ironic? Does not show up well in a forum posting. Not sure if they do a smiley for irony.
I did not assume it was personal.
I have to say that I suspect that the majority of real NG nuts in the UK know full well that the SRRL was a 2 ft line. The ordinary 'G' nut, even in the US, probably doesn't know and cares even less, hence my remark about the K27. The howls of outrage would not be about a 3 ft loco being run on 2 ft gauge, but that as a 32mm gauge model it would not run on 45mm gauge.
Sam E
PS assuming that the loco is built almost consistently to 1:20.3, its loading gauge is going to be rather small when compared with non industrial 3 footers. I also suspect that as an industrial loco it would be rather too heavy for most industrial tracks.
Keep in mind... Not all Forney's were two foot gauge and roamed the woods of Maine, those are just the most commonly known, many many were 3' gauge, some even standard guage and ranged from Louisiana plantaions to Cuban cane fields to Appalacian logging lines to Washington State saw mills to even the New York City's elevated railroad.
Disneyland has an operating 3' gauge Forney thats very similar to this model. I just wish this one was more affordable :-[
I'm looking forward to some of those 7/8 chaps getting one of these!...
;D
Vic, I'm too, prob out of the running on a purchase...nice to look at though.
cale
Well, I saw both models today at the NMRA show in Hartford and they are beautiful and as fits their heritage, petite. So I think Bachmann will find customers in the legacy 1:22 community along with the 1:20 crowd.
The coal load was removed from one and you could clearly see the plug in board for those of use who are using DCC. I for one will be getting one.
Nice job Bachmann,
Peter.
Quote from: samevans on July 10, 2009, 07:47:52 AM
...The Boston, Revere Beach, & Lynn did not use Forneys. Most of its locos were Masons (single Fairlies) where the engine unit was articulated as well as the carrying bogie (truck).
Dagnabbit, I knew that. My bad. I was suffering the delusion they ran Forneys last night, and when I checked the roster that came up on Google and found a number of Alco-built 0-4-4Ts, It reinforced my error. Thanks for correcting me.
But take heart, BRB&L fans! The Bachmann Forney swings both ways. You can lock the trailing truck so that it only pivots, and unlock the front chassis, so it swings like a Mason!
So, Forney fans, where were the 3' gauge forneys? I know of one, which might not count because it started life as an 0-4-2T. Tuscarora Valley #2, which was a diminutive little affair. I built a model of it from an Accucraft Ruby, and it's a good chunk smaller than what Bachmann is producing.
Later,
K
Kevin,
F&CC 51, Schenectady, 1898, Construction No. 4740. Delivered as an 0-4-4T, but the F&CC added a two-wheel pilot truck almost immediately, making her a 2-4-4T. All the photos I have seen show her operating smokebox first, suggesting the F&CC decided very soon that 51 needed a pilot truck. Probably not surprising on a railroad with only conventional 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 power excepting this one Forney for commuter service. Sold in 1914 to the Pajaro Valley Consolidated, in California. Scrapped circa 1935. Drawings should be available from the John Maxwell Collection.
One locomotive, two 36 inch gauge railroads.
Charlie Mutschler
I believe that the Florence & Cripple Creek had a 3' gauge Forney, that wound up on a Central California line. Two possible prototypes for Bachmann to make, or for an aftermarket supplier to do a conversion for. gj
Quote from: glennk28 on July 12, 2009, 08:56:30 PM
I believe that the Florence & Cripple Creek had a 3' gauge Forney, that wound up on a Central California line. Two possible prototypes for Bachmann to make, or for an aftermarket supplier to do a conversion for. gj
I think it would be a stretch to do an aftermarket conversion in 1:20.3.. The July/Aug NG&SLG carries drawings of the loco in its FCC and Pajaro states. It is significantly larger than the Maine 2-4-4s. What folk tend to forget is that unless you have VERY good track, 2ft ga limits the overall size of a loco, especially with regard to centre of gravity issues. The three ft allows a larger oa size. That is not to say that small locos were not built for 3 ft but they tended to be for lightly laid industrial or plantation trackage.
The Maine Forneys I suspect would be too big and heavy for typical plantation and small industrial work for 3 ft as for 2ft. The Maine Forneys and the FCC loco were built for relative speed which suggests passenger or perishable cargo work. We know the FCCloco was intended for 'suburban' services.
The literature suggests that the outside framed Maine 2-4-4 s were capable of steady running at a fast speed for the smaller gauge. The inside framed version was said to be less steady and illustrated the center of gravity issue (think about it)
I have to say that for 3 ft 'mainline' use the FCC loco or a BRBL Mason or similar would have been better. For plantation etc use a small industrial Baldwin or Porter Forney would have been a better choice.
At least if the SR&RL is going to be used make the loco regaugeable to 30-32mmga
Sam e
As cool as an outside frame Forney would be if I were to ever buy a forney (which i probly wouldnt) it would be an LGB... heck I could get 3 LGB forneys for the price of one of these thats crazy. Plus its 1:20 and I swore up and down after I bought my bachmann K27 I would never buy anything else in 1:20... unless ofcorse I can find a good deal on a connie to bash into a 1:22 K27 hahaha ;D
Well I guess I am another of the 61 who would notice the difference, and no I had not heard about the Forney till I read your post either.
My opinion, I think it is a pity that these loco's are so large, I have a mixture of LGB, Aristo & Bachmann and I would have been great to have dual gauge track with the narrow gauge range to the 1;22 on say 32mm track.
I purchased a Connie ( more of that later) and it fouled on everything even though my LGB Mikado and A-B-A diesel set clear it all. Still now I have altered the clearances I would hope anything will go round.
As for the price I think that Bachmann are now the market leaders as LGB is rubbish in comparison, however I have not had the problems with ANY LGB loco that I have had with the Connie so from that viewpoint they are overpriced unless the reliability is sorted out.
Will the Bachmann Forney be a true forney, wwith the frame rigid under the boiler? Or really a Mason Bogie (Fairlie). gj
Dear Glenn,
It's up to you- there are various assemblies on the underframe that can be locked or unlocked.
I'll take pictures when I can.
Wait 'til you see it!
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Casey,
The Forney is actually quite small by 1:20.3 standards.
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/Forney/Forney10.jpg)
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/Forney/Forney09.jpg)
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/Forney/Forney02.jpg)
You can see here, it barely hits 4" wide, which is very much in line with the smaller 1:22.5 and 1:24 stuff. I didn't measure an LGB Forney, but from just looking at it, the B'mann loco is a touch smaller.
As the B'mann said, the loco can run as a true Forney, with rigid frame and swinging trailing truck, or by pulling one pin and pushing another, run a la a Mason, where both trucks are fixed to a pivot, but none swing.
Pin on rear truck to lock it in center:
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/Forney/Forney01.jpg)
Front chassis:
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/Forney/Forney07.jpg)
Locking pin located under steam chest:
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/Forney/Forney08.jpg)
Later,
K
I was at the NGRC this last week and I had a chance to examine both engines. Bachmann has a winner with these two!! It has been a long time since I was surprised at a show and immediately realized that I would be making another locomotive purchase (as soon as they are available!)
Does the fact that SR&RL was a 2ft. line make it somehow less desirable? Not really! I loved the LGB Forneys even though I run D&RGW. How many of us re-letter the engines and rolling stock for our pikes? My road has a 10-wheeler that looks suspiciously like one that ran on the Tweetsie (imagine that!)
Bachmann finally makes a design that we as a whole have been clamouring for and they (surprise!) make it in 1:20.3!! I can't imagine what posessed the designers to make an engine that was scaled the same as every other Spectrum offering....
The one concern that I will totally agree with is on QC! Please, let's get it right from the beginning and have it beta-tested by a reliable third party before the engines are released to the public! (Enough said on this subject...)
As to price, it does seem a bit steep at $1150 MSRP! I know that the street value will be about half of that but we are also in a nasty recession so it will be interesting to see how this unfolds. I know it's a tightrope that you have to walk on and you have my sympathy.
Bottom line: Bachmann has made a beautiful locomotive, has made it in a scale that is compatible with my other rolling stock, has impressed the h*ll out of me and has made a sale (and possibly two!) ;) ;D
My reply to Kevin was that there was at least one 36 inch gauge Forney that I was aware of. Of course, following Glenn's comment, I suspect that trying to rebuild the Bachmann Forney into F&CC 51 would be difficult. Perhaps not quite in the class of difficulty of building a 4-4-0 entirely out of F-7 parts, but. . . . scratch building might really be easier for anyone seeking an F&CC 2-4-4T.
Having said that, I am really impressed with the Forney! Beautiful job, gentlemen. I am sure it will be very popular with the people who love Maine 2wo footers. Doubtless someone will figure out how to rebuild them to two foot gauge. Someone has done that with the On30 Forney, but I understand it is quite a job, not for the faint of heart or the mechanically inept. Again, looks nice!
Charlie
-30-
Kevin
Thanks for the photos of the Forney with the ruler. Based on the photos and dimensions , it appears that Bachmann has just scaled up their On30 Forney. The SR&RL Forney #9 was about 29' long and th 1:20.3 Forney appears to be 29' long. All the other dimensions appear to be consistent with the On30 Forney also.
Great news for people like me that are just itching to move the gauge in to 32mm to make it correct for a Maine loco and it appears there is room to do it.
Thanks again for posting those pics.
Dan Rowsell
Victoria, BC
I saw it as well, what really want is an afordable Bogie. Maybe next time?
It certainly looked impressive.
As for the price, well you can not have a weak currency and cheap imports.
Dear Mr. Bachmann:
Great product.
I haven't been interested in any of your new locomotives since the 4-4-0.
One gentleman's comment on mylargescale with regards to the amount of electronics:
"Man walked on the moon with less computer assistance than this."
Any chance of a third Forney version with a 4-4-0 style flat panel roof summer cab, fluted domes, Radley hunter stack, oil burning headlamp and cowcatcher ?
I realise a 32 mm two foot gauge version would not sell enough units to be feasible in the market place but it would have been great.
Thank you to Lee Riley and Bud Reece for listening to us.
Norman
Ah Norman! That is what "kit bashing" is for!! There are aftermarket parts that can be purchased to do exactly what you want and David Fletcher's Masterclasses over on myLargescale.com run you through step-by-step on how to construct a Radley-Hunter stack. Also, Silvergate Distributor's had Radley-Hunter stacks for LGB Moguls at the recent NGRC in Denver last week! ;)
Dear Mr Bachmann:
1) Is the trade show Forney the final product or can modifications still be made?
2) Can you sell the Forney with a spare set of Gauge Zero ( O gauge ) wheel sets for hobbyists to run the Forney on 2 foot gauge track?
Dual O Gauge and G Gauge track is presently commercially available.
3) Can you sell the Forney with spare fluted domes, cowcatcher and Radeley stack? Cost is minimal at the factory.
4) Will SR&RL lettered Jackson & Sharp coaches be available from Bachmann ?
Thank you
Norman
Any info on what the practical operating radius is? If it's anything like the ON-30 Forney (lots of rear overhaugh), I'm guessing that it will need a minimum of R3?
Minimum radius will depend on how you configure it. If you lock the rear truck in the middle so it pivots only, and pull the pin so the front chassis pivots, the rep believes it will fit a 2' radius. As for running as a true forney, I don't know. The rear truck has significant swing, and comparing that to the forney I built years ago that would go around a 4' (R3) radius curve, it should have no trouble.
Later,
K
Any updates when the Forney/log skidder will be available?