The side play in the wheels is necessary to help with getting around the curves .... along with the blind and "flying" center driver.

Is it possible what you're hearing is the model equivalent of flange scream? (Think of watching a 1:1 freight train pushed into a tight curve on a siding) ... sometimes in a curve the flange on the wheel will drag on the rail, and you'll get a scream (or in model size, a squeak.)  Mine do it... and I call it prototypical (though, with the new railroad, most of the curves aren't tight enough to cause it.)

To test for this try just putting a tiny drop of oil on the flange of the wheel and distribute it around.... if you get carried away here, you'll spin the wheels, so be careful .... or do the same thing with the inside of the rails on the curve (again being careful to get the inside, and not the top, of the railhead, and to use VERY sparing amounts of oil!) 

If what you're hearing is the flange scream, that should solve the problem .... you'll notice that the 1:1 railroads actually do this too, with automatic "flange oilers" that apply bits of grease to the inside of the rail edge as the train passes.

see: http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?200204280146102254.jpg

Best,

Matthew (OV)

Some other food for thought:

There's a big difference between the kind of R/C that will run a toy car or tank from Radio Shack at Christmas, and the kind of R/C you need to run a large scale train.  Sure, if all you want is some kind of speed control it can  be done .... but for most everything you do with a model train outside of the "Christmas Tree" environment, you need a bit more positive control than you'll get with the ususal R/C setup on a toy.  RCS addresses a lot of the issues that pop up with even the simplest of control situations.

Let's start with the most basic.  You control the direction and speed of the train by varying the voltage on the track.  Certainly, with a perfectly clean track, and all other environmental factors being equal, this works.... except that in the real world, there's always some kind of issue that seems to introduce obstacles into the power path... trains hesitate, stall on dirty spots on track or wheels, and the voltage isn't entirely free of noise and variation.... and trains don't always run smoothly.  To be sure, there are a number of systems that take advantage of the fact that having full power on the track and the variations made on board the locomotive do overcome some of this ... but clean track and wheels, and steady, noise free power are still very important.

When you try to make those speed adjustments with Radio control, you find that the obstacles to using "straight" track power cause havoc with many lower end radio control methods.... the arcing between wheels and track, and the electrical noise generated by power supplies and sent down the rail with the current can make it very difficult for an onboard radio to hear what a (usually)very weak transmitter is trying to say, particularly when it's a system that requires a continuous signal.  And... if the locomotive stalls on a dirty track or dirty wheels, all the signalling in the world won't get it started again.

So... we move to radio control with onboard batteries.  Now you have the throttle on board the locomotive, and batteries providing noise free uninterrupted power regardless of whether the track is mirror clean, or covered in mashed caterpillars ..... but we're not out of the woods yet.  You need a way for the controller to give instructions to the locomotive that it will interpret correctly regardless of changing position (relative to the transmitter) metal valve gear, extraneous signals in the area, and various electrical devices in and around the train .... and your kid's radio controlled monster truck's system simply isn't set up to do that.

So... the radios become digital... and send non-continuous instructions to the receivers....  signals become encoded so that you can have more than one train in use at a time,  and the interpretation becomes reliable enough that you don't need a transmitter that makes your neighbors' TV's go fuzzy.

We've had a number of folks come through who meant to build a better mousetrap ... and there's nothing wrong with that.  Provided the better mousetrap actually catches mice... and doesn't catch cats, start fires, or violate federal ordinances.  The manufacturers who have been in the business the longest have had the most opportunity to work all those things out ... and have done quite a lot of it ... which is why they've been around as long as they have.  Others have been very loud at the beginning, promised much, and delivered little .... ususally because they ran into one of those obstacles (that is, making something that works well, conforms to the various laws and regulations, and can be made in such a way that it's worth it to the makers to do so) and found that it wasn't as easy as it appeared when they first set out.  Others have found that selling such products before they've been properly built, tested, and proven (or, for that matter, even built at all) can be disasterous.

So ... if you want to build your own, more power to you, particularly if you enjoy that sort of thing.  Enjoy the experience... and tell us how you overcome the various things that pop up along the way.  But be careful to maintain a modicum of respect for those who have travelled the path before you ... some of whom even defined the path ... and be careful not to confuse well earned success with greed, or well researched and proven knowledge with arrogance.... it simply isn't like that.   Certainly, anyone can attach a gas engine to a wagon, and make a horseless carriage .... but that doesn't mean you're going to outdo the Ford Mustang as a people mover when you build one even if they do charge a lot more for a Cobra GT than you need to buy a wagon and a Briggs and Stratton.

Respectfully ...

Matthew (OV)

You might try extending the drawbars....  Kadee has an arrangement like this for long passenger cars.... basically it adds a jointed bar between the coupler and the draft box.  The car spacing is ... well, horrible, but as you say, better than nothing?

Matthew (OV)

I *had* a boatload.  I believe on the last cleanout, new bench build in the shop they all were deep sixed .... they were the older Big Hauler type, and I got tired of supergluing them.

The Hook and Loops are probably still around just because they were in a different bin... and I have a couple things still in boxes that might be raided too.

So I think you're out of luck on this one.  I'll check though.

Matthew (OV)

Jeff Damerst at Shawmut Car Shops made one for me out of a B-mann 2-4-2 ... and then went on to make a very nice one for someone out of an LGB engine, pushed by the powered tender.



So it's do-able if you want one.

Oh ... and technically, the MWCRR is narrow gauge, though probably the widest of the narrow, at 56 inches   

Matthew (OV)

Two things....

1.) The 45 Tonner's couplers are frame mounted, not truck mounted, so you'll need to pay attention to your curves somewhat if you're going to use hook and loops with it .... it won't track quite as tightly as your talgo/truck mounted hook and loops, and if you've got 2' radius curves, might cause a problem. (it could be made to be truck mounted, I suppose... but this would involve major surgery!)

2.) If you can't find yours, let me know, I have about a thousand you can have.

Matthew (OV)

Personally, I like the "post wreck" 455 ... but I doubt I'll be likely to see that one either.

Some other manufacturers have had some success with the "multiple version" release ... consider "Blackstone Models" matrix of possibilities...

http://www.blackstonemodels.com/products/k27matrix.htm

That way if you like round number plates, and valves outboard of the cylinders, and road pilots like I do ... well, you know what number to ask for!

It'll be interesting to see what Bachmann picks.

Matthew (OV)

While I'm not sure that it refutes the "too big" argument, I think what Ollie means is that if you were to produce a modern diesel in 1:20.3, it would be correctly scaled, whereas the current offerings in 1:29 are not, technically, correctly scaled. 

With 1:20.3 models of White Pass equipment, there would then be correctly scaled models of modern diesel prototypes, and one would be able to model what he (and he's not alone) consider to be as interesting a railroad as those found in Colorado using those models.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that Ollie's halfway 'round the world, and while his command of English is excellent, he tends to think differently than most of us when it comes to using it.

Personally, I'd love to see a widecab... no matter the size.

Matthew (OV)

Depending on where the trucks are broken, Dave Goodson had a fix that involved drilling them out a little deeper and putting in slightly longer screws.... that's a problem that's come up more than once.  Apart from that, there are a couple of options to replace them altogether; I've heard of Accucraft Brass ones being used, though that could end up being a little pricey.

Matthew (OV)

The boiler front friction fit can  be fixed with a piece of electrical tape around the inside edge of the piece that came out... #7's has been held on that way from the beginning.

Hopefully there'll be a new tender in your future...

Matthew (OV)

I have two of the original two truck Shays.  They ran without complaint on ~2.5 foot radius (The LGB R-2) curves for quite some time.  They have been known to negotiate 2 foot radius curves (LGB R-1) though they're not entirely happy doing so, and depending on whether the curve is to the left or the right, there's a risk of something in the driveline binding or catching sometimes, on some engines.

This is a picture of SCRY #4 on the old railroad, coming out of a 2.5 foot radius curve.  Notice the angle that the rear truck has with respect to the chassis.


My railroad now has a 5+ foot minimum radius, and the Shay is much happier, and looks a great deal better.

JD,

Thanks ... looks like if I tune my AMS stuff while I'm decalling it, it'll all work well.

Matthew (OV)

Good news indeed.  I will report on mine, of course, however since that's still some time away, if anyone has any more data on how well they've worked with the AMS stock couplers, and how they match up, I'd be interested to hear.

Thanks Kevin for the Kadee data; I do still have some pieces equipped with those.

Matthew (OV)

In anticipation of quite a few of the new 1:20.3 hoppers on the SCRY (the captain of the car float tells me maybe as soon as next week?) I'm wondering ... has anyone tried running these "as is" (presumably with the "scale height" couplers) with AMS and/or Kadee coupler equipped rolling stock? 

If so, how well does it work?  I'm trying to determine if I'm going to need to convert them or if they'll be OK as-is.

Matthew (OV)

P

The Anniversary Edition locomotive has Walshaerts valve gear, in metal, an updated drive, and a lot of seperate detail parts that make it very like its Spectrum cousins.  "Standard" edition 4-6-0's don't have these upgrades.  Many recent sets have used the Anniversary locomotive though, so if you're interested in getting your hands on one (you should be...) but still want the set, it's worth checking into which sets are now offered with one. (The Sam's Club christmas set is an example, and there are others.)

George Schreyer wrote that page before a lot of the current offerings were available.  While the Shay was, and is, an excellent pulling locomotive, there is annecdotal evidence that the 2-8-0, and the other geared locomotives pull very well also.  The 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 (Spectrum) are a bit lighter weight, and the small industrial 2-6-0 is very light weight unless you modify it ....  and of course the new Shay is, powerwise, the old Shay plus one more power truck.

While there are no (that I'm aware of) attempts at a standardized list along the lines of what George did with the older locomotives, some guildelines apply no matter what you're doing .... any locomotive will pull a lot more cars on level track than it will on a grade ,... and even in the "real world"  the most extreme narrow gauge "mainline" stuff didn't seem to get much steeper than about 4% grade (4" rise in 100" run...) and while you'll find logging railroads with upwards of 10%, this is not something you'll see in a "normal" railroad environment.   So the short answer is, keep your grades as gradual as you can, even if your locomotive WILL pull steeper.

Of course, if you really want your 4-6-0 to pull, try a Barry's drive ...http://www.barrysbigtrains.com/ ...   there's a video of one pulling some 40 cars or more on his site.  You can even convert your 4-6-0 to a 2-8-0 if you like. 

Now ... entirely unscientifically.... I had an "Anniversary" 4-6-0 that would (and regularly DID) pull half a dozen cars on a 4-5% grade on the "old" Slate Creek ... and it had an R2 curve at the top of the grade to boot.  Your mileage may (and probably will) vary ....  and I can't tell you for sure how many more cars I could have added before it would have slipped or stalled.  We have another guy on here who has a Shay that regularly handles 15-20 cars on a 4% grade in the pouring rain....  but that's with a conversion to battery power and with the shiny plating worn off the wheels.

Hope this is somewhat helpful...

Matthew (OV)