Question Milw261 {hope you don't mind if I shortened up your handle}: In an earlier reply you mentioned adjusting the sounds to your liking or what ever. Can  you elaborate on this?

My new "Sound Value" S-2 came today after much anticipation on my part. Rather frustrating testing here. At first the engine just didn't respond well at all, in all categories. Then is settled down some but I could tell something was not right. It just acted very confused and had almost no sound. Eventually the engine noise is about the only constant to work. Then the bell would start working but only sometimes regardless of speed. When it worked it was great at slow speed of course, the next time regardless of slow speed it wouldn't go on. Then after a long time the horn tried to work a little, again very spotty. Direction is a problem unless you have the voltage quite high. I cleaned the wheels, tried different power packs {2}, brand new code 70 test track. Sometimes it showed real hope and would respond very well, but then go back to acting confused about signals. I presume voltage levels change and activate certain functions? My controller is the only thing I didn't change out. Wondering if this is some of the problem. It is an older Aristocraft trainmaster hand held and works fine on my DC Atlas, Proto 2000, and Kato diesels. Works fine on all my brass steam too.  Of course maybe I have entered into a new realm of fussy electronics. Local hobby shop said they would look at it and tell me if I needed something on my end. Just wondering if you have to reset the factory settings to make this run acceptably on DC. Doesn't appear to be advertised this way. I need to buy a better  power pack as the one I have been using is probably half the reason I am having problems. That is the reason I have been trying different power. In the end it settled down to about  50% confused. Sounds like self analysis to me.

As these engines break in to the electronics improve? Might sound like a rather foolish question but after a time more functions did start to work, even if erratically. Or as usual is it operator error on my part somehow? Thanks, John.

"D", have heard of doing the box car thing for sound or lack of room, definitely an option. My thought is for my smaller brass is using a spare tender as a canteen. Same principle, just different form. Larger steam maybe a larger tender. Most of my steam is under or maxed out at about 100 ton {few are that heavy}. Have many of the non DCC Bachman steam that have been barely broken in. Not sure about longevity of some of them from what I have read? But I sure like them and plan on using them too, comparing them to brass right out of the box certainly changed my views and got me back to where I am today, starting a layout.



Being rather old school and cheap by nature seldom go for the latest and greatest technology especially in electrical gizmo's. Technology grows so fast I hate to get on the train of trying to keep up. When the cost and product meet my criteria maybe. The idea of tank car, tender "canteen" or box car loaded with sound is probably the cheapest and easiest solution and would give the largest degree of versatility/cost. The thoughts of not using my United Serria #45 2-6-2's and some of the other smaller and unique brass would be a shame. Grew up being around smaller steam as a kid and still work on smaller steam so my interest is smaller industrial, logging or short-line type size and modeling. Having your cake and eating it to is a spur to creativity when money isn't there to buy what you want. In my way of thinking it is in a way very proto-typical. In modeling if you can't afford you improvise by "kit bashing". In industry they called it deferred maintenance or running repairs. Well put by "Red Green" when he stated "this is just temporary........ unless it works". Cheers, John.  

Thank you "D" for the welcome and thoughts on converting older brass to DCC. While maybe some day I will be tempted to convert, the numbers involved just doesn't do it for me. Have so many brass steam locomotives that it would be quite time consuming and expensive. Have been building kits and collecting for some time now on and off. Finally am committing to building a layout. That is my big concern, getting started on my first. The DCC/sound conversion is way low on my priority list. As stated for me personally it just isn't that important. Getting my upstairs cleaned out and bench work going is. Have so much to learn and do. I can just put the sound/DCC thing further down on list of priorities. Local hobby shop has classes on conversions but unless the cost has come down dramatically, it would cost me a fortune to convert my engines over. That is why I am happy to just have a few that have the sound option with DC function. Now if I could duplicate the Bachman DCC/DC with sound for a cheaper cost, I would be very tempted to do a few of my favorite brass. I have put can motors in one or two of my brass already. Have a couple that need re-motoring anyway. Again thank you. Cheers, John.
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Again thank you for your input. Hope my impulsiveness doesn't bite me on this. Just ordered a Bachman S-4 with DCC with sound traxx. Tried to educate myself using the search engine and not sure but I think I am more confused than before. Kind of sounds like the value sound thing is replaced with dual mode DC/DCC and sound works on DC too. Was told earlier that like value sound it works, but you don't get all the bells and whistles {pun intended} of the DCC aspect of sound  or how ever one my convey the differences. Hope it functions ok on DC as I have no place for a DCC locomotive. Was recently at train show in Green Bay and saw a Bachman 4-4-0 with all the DCC sounds and it was pretty cool I must admit. For me sound isn't necessary, but if I can get a few to run on DC with the major sounds that would the best of both worlds. Hate to post about this stuff as I am sure the regulars on this site get tired of newbies asking the same questions over and over. Find the whole Bachman sound thing confusing. I am waiting for technology to come up with a cheap and easy way to convert brass from the 60's and 70's to an improve running and sound capability. I see a few ideas are getting close, but no cigar yet. Thanks guys. John.

Thanks for your input Milwaukeeroadfan261. Have not seen or had any experience with the value sound or sound value versions. I did experience a "value sound" 2-6-0 if that is a similar option? I thought that was great too. Have quite a bit of brass and I plan  on running most  of them, so the idea of converting them to DCC or sound doesn't appeal to me. It would cost me a fortune to convert over. Sure would like to try one out or see on in action. If it is  indeed in the same arena as the "value sound" 2-6-0, I may have to have one of those. Again thanks for the input. Cheers, John.

Recently bought a DC Bachman S4 and took it to my brothers layout where we broke it in. At first it had some gear/motor noise and ran better in reverse than forward. Overall it ran wonderful right out of the box. Wouldn't complain about either comments as they were very minor issues. Figured the gear/motor noise was a free version of "value sound". After about half hour in each direction the speed/voltage settled down and ran equal in both directions pulling about a 20 car train on basically 0 degree grade. No warmth and the thing just runs great, slow or fast. Crawls as nice as anything from other mfg. So the million dollar question is how others have done and anybody ran these long term with any problems? I was very pleased with mine and the cost for a DC version was cheap in my book, very good value so far.

Also on same visit took an old ALCO brass S1 that I shouldn't of bought but did. Looks great but had dead short and wheels show lots of use. My brother is a accomplished modeler and incredible mechanic/enginerd. He took out the wiring for the lights and an after market "resister" and wired back to stock. The pitman motor was in great shape but dirty, so he removed and cleaned the motor and brushes. It ran after a while but had electrical  pu issues and was very erratic. After some more tweaking he gave it back to me to put the shell on. It seemed that the shell was contacting the top of the brushes or  motor and the tape we put in to insulate wasn't working well. Was ready to just say the heck with it and cut my losses. Put the shell back on and put it on rails not expecting much. The darn thing started running, erratically but still running. So we put it on a train and ran it for half hour. The speed picked up and voltage remained same. Eventually she ran very well and even at slow speeds. Growls like a mad dog but actually ran almost as nice as modern Bachman, Atlas, Kato/ proto 2000, almost that is. My how these plastic locomotives run so nice. The all wheel electrical pu is wonderful when you compare to the old brass which I have a lot of.
With problem free plastic models I do not know how much or on long run this old ALCO S1 will run as the motor does get pretty warm with extensive long run use? But I also kind of like the growling, kind of reminds me of 1:1 gauge, along with all the mechanical/electical issues.

Cheers, John.

Think it reasonable request to model the Ma&Pa type 2-8-0, it would rock like all the other "Spectrum" models do. Interesting thread with a lot of pro/con reasoning. Saw no sarcasim, only slightly different perspectives. All which have merrit.

I agree the old Roundhouse 2-8-0 is actually a good substitute as they have a lot of potential and actually run decent. Would rather see a small non USRA 2-8-2, preferably something along the lines of the #70 that is now again running in WA state. A non proto-typical mike like the SY with USA modifications would be a cheap way to capitalize on tooling and engineering already done as well. Coming from an older school background, I think the modeler can take something like the old Roundhouse Ma&Pa type 2-8-0 and quite easily make a real nice custom locomotive, same for the SY in it's original form. It is great when someone like Bachman makes exactly what you want, especially in the smaller tonnage locomotive, but in the meantime with a little effort we as modelers can come up with some real nice custom examples.

When I look at some of the locomotives that have been availabe for years that are still produced and have a lot of potential with just a small amount of "kit bashing" or customizing, the Roundhouse 2-8-0 and of all things the Mantua Logging 2-6-6-2 comes to mind. They run very nice as is and with minor customizing one can have a great non brass locomotive. For those that remember what it was like back in the 60s and 70s as to what was available, you can sure appreciate the quality stuff available now, meaning you don't have to buy brass if you don't want too. While I too would like to see some more small steam come out like the wonderful 4-6-0s and Russian 2-10-0 there is still a lot that can be done till the next one comes out. The RTR out of the box quality that Bachman has come out with has us spoiled rotten, not all bad of course. Cheers, John.