Just been looking through the new catalog for 2012 and every single piece of n scale E-Z track is now on a Yellow edged card, whilst every piece of HO E~Z track is on a Blue edged card, so it would likely appear the colours are meant to highlight the different Scale rather then anything to do with DCC etc.

I also note that in addition to the existing two #6 turnouts under discussion in this thread -
"REMOTE TURNOUT - LEFT - Item No. 44861 &  REMOTE TURNOUT - RIGHT  - Item No. 44862  / Suggested price: $26.00 (1/card)"

there are two new #6 turnouts (left & right) that don't have pic's yet and are described just as
"#6 TURNOUT – LEFT - Item No. 44859 & #6 TURNOUT – RIGHT  - Item No. 44860   / Suggested price: $52.00 (1/card)"

I wonder what these are?

Thanks skipgear for the input,

Not having had any E~Z crossovers previously I can't comment.  Are you suggesting that Bachmann has just upgraded the turnouts to match what the crossovers have always done?
That said - your comment "I believe that is isolated in the middle so that you may run different power supplies on either of the double track loops." doesn't make sense, as the crossover's I have here do not isolate one track from the other.  ie both double track loops use the same power supply.

HO may be different?

Bachmann item 44879 Dual action lower and raise as train goes through.

had a search  but couldn't see any posts on this issue.

This is a nice low cost item which intergrates in the EZ track system and provides a little bit of extra action.

It looks great when a single large engine passes through - booms go down, then come up - obviously not as good as a powered boom triggered well before the train reaches it, but for the low price not bad.
however when you have a train pass through you get a bounce effect of the booms as each car travels across the pressure pad and doesn't have enough weight to hold it down before the next car applies pressure.

As this item has been around for awhile I wondered if anyone had found a way of reducing the bounce

The pad requires enough weight that when a 6 shunter goes over it slowly it can actually cause it to loose contact with the rails.

I find Jeff's idea of using a decoder in a reverse way (so to speak), to power a DC engine intriguing. However since it in essence would be a DC powered circuit, would it still not have exactly the same issue if the crossing DCC lines get shorted?  The results would be worse? or better?

Any thoughts?

One downside I see of using the DCC controller to run both circuits is of course the single controller is powering everything instead of two sharing the load.  The upside as Jeff says is the emergency all stop button.

Here's the new? turnout packets with the 'Yellow' showing both the 44862 (type #6)  and 44864 (type #4)



and here is the back (both are identical on the back)



and here is a close up of the instruction about making live frogs and using them live only on DC



So I'm still trying to work out what is signified by the Yellow- like why are the crossovers Blue, yet work the same as the "new" Yellow turnouts.

Anyway I think we have established the turnouts are not power routing anymore.

Ok here's the crossover packet which is defiantly a DCC ready item and its 'Blue'



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and here's the underside showing the same wires for live frogs as found on the turnouts



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Quote from: skipgear on February 15, 2012, 10:02:31 PM
What engine? It matters with C55. If the flanges are oversized it will do exactly as you describe.

exactly what I was thinking, trains flanges runs on trackbed and loses full contact with the rails - result power/no-power etc.
As much as code55 looks more realistic it can cause various problems that you have to be aware of...

Have you got any regular code80 track? run the train on that and if the problem goes away - well its not the train intself, its the wheels needing to be "code55 friendly"..

James I don't think I'm setting any record straight, your understanding of  the EZ turnouts is based on the 'old?' turnouts and in that regards you are 100% correct.

the problem - as we have now discovered lies with Bachmann themselves for changing the rules and not telling us the users.. I feel it was a mistake on their part to use the same part number, and not change it. They do so when they change a Locomotive to say DCC from analog as it would make a huge shenanigan for stock inventory's, why not for track parts as well?

As for my use of E~Z track.  I have a ten year old who is not ready for a fixed layout and has not yet got the modeling skills needed to create his own parts etc, so the E~Z track is much better for him because of its much easier to setup and holds it shape better without being fastened to anything.. I will make him (read me) a fixed layout at some date in the future, but at 10yrs old its not urgent and in a year or so he will have a better idea of what he would like.

I do have some retail turnout packs coming and can photo them from both sides, so please don't feel the need to buy a new turnout.  However at the current rate of travel of my January 24th order which still has not arrived, I don't know when I will see them as they are in my 7th Feb order.

update 15th Feb parts for the later order are here (priority mail by mistake) so pics will be coming..

Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
So we now know that the new turnouts come from the factory as "all routes live" but can be converted to "power routing"

No - incorrect.  I didn't say they switched the power to different lines (power routing),  I said when you power the frog, the frog changes polarity as you select between the lines - as it would have to do to not cause a short.  The lines remain live all the time.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
Why Bachmann would include "not recommended for DCC" on the new turnout packaging is a mystery to me, seeing as the frog is unpowered and all routes are live from the factory.

Which is exactly what I have been wondering as well since always live turnouts are required for DCC if you are using the EZ track as - well as easy track, rather then permanent track with bus bars.

Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
It would appear to me that when using these new turnouts in all routes live mode, on DC as a crossover, that they would require insulated joiners between them... no?

Yes.  However that would not be possible with the crossover since the two switchers are joined, in which case one would have to cut one rail between them with a Dremel.

Quote from: James in FL on February 13, 2012, 01:20:27 PM
This has been a good thread and lots of good information (facts) passed along here.
I've learned something and thanks to all participating.

Yes and we seem to have turned the whole understanding of turnouts around in the process..
So what advise do we now give people who ask things like
"Where should I position the terminal/re-railer track in relation to my turnouts to keep the trains from stopping and do I need more than one terminal/re-railer track?"
& "For a passing siding I assume that I need to have power independently going to the siding so the main line and siding need not be "hot" simultaneously"

Obviously the advise given previously will now be incorrect - its going to get more difficult to answer such questions as first the type/version of the turnout (with the exact same numbers) will have to worked out etc

Oh Mr B what have you done?
Perhaps you should have brought out two different numbered versions and even perhaps sold them alongside each other as DCC live turnout & DC power routing turnout.

Quote from: James in FL on February 10, 2012, 03:38:20 PM

To power the frog, connect the wires to the outbound most boss on top of the existing one
circled.

If you try this, please report back and let us know how the turnout behaves.

Which I have done and yes joining the two wires together powers the frog, which changes polarity when the points are changed.
Works much better with the small shunters.

Getting back to the original subject of points being power routing or not, I just recently got a EZ Single Crossover Turnout - Right #44876, which came in a blue edged retail pack and it also is not power routing and remains live in all positions ( I also connected the frogs on it to make them live with the same setup as the new? turnouts.

This doesn't follow the yellow edge advise given and even says along one edge " This turnout is electronically gapped for DCC- friendly operation."

Talk about confusing..Bachmann should have make a much clearer and defined distinction between the old and new types.
As it stands there's no way of telling what one is getting when one orders a turnout if the numbers are the exact same..

yes indeed it does open a can of worms which only Mr B will be able to answer

DO we now have two types of turnouts? and how does one tell them apart when buying.

I too wonder if the ones I got in the Track Pack are meant to be the same/different to the retail skin packs.

Ironically the 'older'? power routing type are better for DC which is what I would have preferred and I have got the 'new'? live  units.
However I will use them with a DCC setup when I get it setup, so its not that big an issue for me.

As the unit comes it runs only on Analog DC...

The DCC ready means it has been designed to allow the fitting of a decoder - which means the design of the path the power takes to reach the motor is isolated and you can put a decoder in between without having to do any other alterations.

In this case you will need to solder the decoder in.

Decoders will operate both in DCC mode and in Analog DC.  (at least the recent ones now sold)

cheers

One and same in name only it would appear though

Here's the picture of the ones I've got, as you can see they are quite different, not only is the switching electonics different, the cuts in the plastic with their copper leads/bus bars are also different..

In fact there's very little that yours and mine share under the cover. I see almost no common parts.





and another close up of the electrical selector switch

James

I only have the four EZ turnouts that came with the Bachmann 'N Scale First Railroad Track Pack' http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=3409
It only says;
'two remote turnouts - left'
'two remote turnouts - right'
no numbers are given, however as far as I can tell they are items #44861 & #44862 http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=220 & http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=221

I note the webpage says "All analog turnouts (non-DCC) require AC accessory power supply for operation"

The turnouts I have as you can see by looking at the webpage are NOT Wye.  I mentioned the No#6 to avoid confusion with the No#4 units
Looking under the turnouts I see 'K110625' stamped on the alum plate on each one. On the actual plastic under all the patent No's I see 'N Turnout Right N4861-00B01" & 'N Turnout Left N4861-00B02" (which would seem to indicate they are indeed the #44861 & #44862 units)

I have a retail pkt #44862 turnout and a retail pkt#44864 #4 turnout plus another 4 turnouts of the current type in a second "First starter kit" (cheapest way to buy them with more track) about to be posted from the US, so I am fairly keen to see it they behave differently, however they won't get here for a couple of weeks. - I'm half tempted to go and buy a retail packet one now just to see, but at the $30+ the hobby shops charge here It'll just annoy me if I do.

What we need is either;
Bachmann to clear up why we seem to have two apparently identical turnouts different behaving differently: have they changed the wiring? or does the starter kit for some reason have ones with different wiring?

or someone with a #44861 or #44862 turnout to confirm those numbers are the same and they are still power routing as previously

Finally in relation to Dessertdweller's comment's..
Theres no plastic parts/frogs (if you look at the links to the turnouts above you can see) and when I remove the plate underneath I can't see much of the actual power transfer connections, they seem to be moulded into the unit itself. I'd have to destroy the turnout by removing the track from the EZ base to see what they have done. As far as I can tell the only moving part is the mechanisation for moving the actual switch points, but as stated I can't see clearly whats going on.
My 6 wheel shunters don't like crossing the turnouts at a slow speed and stall if they don't have enough carry through motion.

Quote from: James in FL on February 04, 2012, 11:26:43 PM
Maybe Bachmann has changed something since I last bought EZ turnouts (about 3-4 years ago)?

Yes that's what I'm thinking. It would make sense on a DCC system

Hi by the way Albert, hope you didn't mind me quoting you as a example of what has been said previously.

Quote from: James in FL on February 04, 2012, 11:26:43 PM
Mr. Bachmann... if you're following this thread can you confirm Bachmann has now made available DCC friendly n scale turnouts?

Second that from me..