All the locos were in their boxes and still assembled except for 1.   The 1 that isn't complete, only the frame and shell was in it's box.   There was another small box that I dug up that has all the rest of the parts for that loco.  Trucks, motor, wheels axles etc.   The trucks were assembled except for the worm gears and their covers and the wheels were also loose and there are also the bearings sitting loose in the box.   The motor was assembled except for the bottom clip.  Brush spring wasn't in the box and a couple bearings are missing.   I did find the bottom motor clip in another box that contained parts like Kadee couplers and spare coupler springs etc.   Why it wasn't with the other parts, I have no idea.   I probably took the loco apart to clean and never got around to finishing it.   Maybe I lost the brush spring and got frustrated and packed it all up to cool off and never got around to it.   This could have been 10 or 15 years ago because this track has been set up for probably close to 20 years or more and all the Athearns were bought within short order, probably within the first year of first setting everything up.    I have some brush springs and bearings coming which should allow me to complete this loco as well. 

Thanks for confirming that I'm not missing something in regards to that shaft and my existing worm gears. 

Also, I'm going to check out that E-6000 adhesive that you suggest.

Thanks.

Quote from: jbrock27 on December 30, 2014, 07:21:39 PM
I am really going to go out on a limb here and guess, that everything preeetttttty much looks like it does in these pics, which I should have provided like 2 days ago when I first offered:

http://www.mcor-nmra.org/Publications/Articles/Athearn_TuneUp.php

Yes, that link covers my Athearns.   Thanks.   I either saw that link here, previously, or found it in a search.  Either way, I have it bookmarked.

For informations sake, I'd still like to know how those newer shafts would connect to my existing worm gears but it's not such a burning desire that I would have a problem with this thread dying.  

I'll say thanks again to all for the help now in the event that the thread actually does come to an end.   

   

Quote from: Len on December 30, 2014, 10:30:42 AM

Quote from: jbrock27 on December 30, 2014, 08:19:33 AM
I know, for some inexplicable reason, Len is fixated on your buying a new motor which is totally unnecessary.  These gold can Blue Box motors are great and damn near indestructible.  So much so, it is extremely difficult and unlikely you can go wrong getting a used one.

I wouldn't say "fixated". The first time I mentioned replacing the motor was when you said parts that are no longer available were missing from the one you had. I suggested the A-Line, which I've found far superior to the 'stock' Athearn motors, but you thought it too expensive.

So I poked around, and discovered Athearn offered complete motors for a lower price, but they had the new style drive shaft connectors in the flywheels.

Then you mention finding the missing bottom clip for the motor you had, and it became a moot issue.

After that, someone else mentioned you have to replace the worm gears if you change to the new motors, and I just pointed out that's not necessarily true. There are drive shafts available to go from the new motors to the old worm connectors. Just be sure to get the right length.

At any rate, I'm just trying to be helpful.

Len

I know you are trying to be helpful and I appreciate it.  You are conflating two different posters comments, mine and Jbrock27's.   I appreciate the suggestions and while we are on the topic,  I am unclear as to how the driveshafts that you posted the model numbers to would work with my existing worm gears.   Going by the photos, neither end looks like it would work with the connections on my worm gears.   I may not currently need a new motor but I would still like to know what I would need to get one to work with what I have ... just in case.   Thanks.

Quote from: jward on December 30, 2014, 11:13:18 AM

Quote from: DarG on December 30, 2014, 08:59:10 AM
Yep, the side frames are plastic.  The bottom pins are broken on most of the ones that I have.  A tiny dab of silicone sealant is what is currently holding the broken ones on.  It works and it's easy to clean up any residual from the outside of the trucks,  but a p.i.t.a to have to do over again if I have to take the trucks apart. 

since the wheelsets can be easily removed by removing the bottom gearbox cover, there should be no need to remove the plastic sideframes from the truck. the wheelsets have inside bearings similar to an amfleet coach, and they will lift right out with the cover plate removed.

True ... if they would hold on while doing so.  It's a temporary fix until I pick up some new side frames and I used just enough silicone to hold them on while the loco is running.  I could probably flick them off with a finger.

Yep, the side frames are plastic.  The bottom pins are broken on most of the ones that I have.  A tiny dab of silicone sealant is what is currently holding the broken ones on.  It works and it's easy to clean up any residual from the outside of the trucks,  but a p.i.t.a to have to do over again if I have to take the trucks apart.   I think that Athearn still offers a couple of the side frames that would fit, they just may not be 100% accurate for the particular loco.   My track is, as someone here called it, the Skyline.  It's about 8 feet up in the air.  You can see if the side frames are missing but you can't see the details, so as long as they fit, they'll get the job done.

Good idea on just watching for deals on used BB's.   I gotta say that the one that I just got running is pretty darn quiet.  Performance at very slow speed isn't impressive but it's a quiet enough runner that I can hear the clickity-clack from the metal wheels on the rolling stock.   Very cool.  I had asked about changing to metal wheels, mostly to help with keeping the track clean.   I picked up one of those bulk Intermountain sets (100 axles).   Not exactly cheap and time will tell if it helps with the track.  But worth it for the more realistic sound alone. 

It's not a big deal.  I don't need to purchase a new motor.    I've found the bottom clip that was missing from the one motor.   All I'm missing for that one motor now is a brush spring.   I have 4 Athearn BB's, not 5 as I thought.   I know that 3 of the motors run.  I've yet to test the 4th.  Basically, I have the parts for all 4 trains minus a couple of bearings and that brush spring.  I also need some sideframes.   Other than that, I think I'm good.     

Quote from: Len on December 29, 2014, 04:39:39 PM
Depending on the loco/motor combination, you should be able to use either the 1.76" Ball-to-Pin [ATH49060] or 1.39" Ball-to-Pin [ATH48060] drive shafts. Measure your old shafts to be sure which to use. They're listed for specific locos, but as long as the lenth matches they'll work with the new motors in old 'Blue Box' locos.

So, if I'm understanding this, one end of those matches up with the connector on the flywheels of the newer engines that you linked earlier.  On the worm drive end, those don't look anything like what I have now.  Do those still connect to my existing worm drive somehow or do I need a part to replace on that end as well?

GP's mostly.   I think I have one other but cant recall what it is however I do know that part numbers for motors and internals are the same for all.     I believe that I have 5 Athearn BB's in total. 

The Tenma station that was a workhorse for me was the 21-147.  I'm, pretty sure that it was $49 back when I bought it.  Now I think they are close to $80.  It's only real weakness was that it wasn't the fastest station to reach set temperature.  I had no problems with recovery but with the work I mostly did with it, I didn't need something that recovered on the spot.    The only thing I would be leary of is whether they have gone to cheaper internal parts now.     I replaced it with the 21-1590 which appears to be the same unit but with a numerical readout.  It is faster to heat up but that may be because it is new.   It was on sale for $69 when I bought it a few months back. 

This is off topic but I actually used a Tenma station that I purchased from MCM over a dozen years ago and just died recently. Most of it's use was light production work for soldering passive components in circuit boards that I developed to replace those in some vintage audio gear.  Also saw a lot of repair and even some new builds and plenty of cable and wire soldering.   I just replaced it with the digital display version of the same model.  If I get the 1/2 the life out of the new one it would still make me happy.   I used to buy from MCM all the time.

At any rate, I do have the quick disconnects already on hand, several sizes including .250
I've been looking at some motors on ebay.   Thanks for the warning.  I've noticed the larger flywheel and some 6 axle versions and I'll be careful because I see that the sellers don't always list the specifics.    Definitely going to try your shortened spring idea and see if it improves slow speed performance.        

Good info in this thread.  Really helps.  Thanks again.

Jbrock.   Now worries, I knew we were talking about the female disconnects.  Thanks for making sure we were on the same page anyway.

Quote from: jbrock27 on December 28, 2014, 12:24:51 PM
So Len, will those still work for the purpose I am looking for?  If so, do you have a part # for that assembly?  Thanks again.

Dar, which link did you want me to provide? 
Should not be a mystery why motor did not work w/o copper clip.
I would say no dice on alligator clips.  Too big for the purpose. 
Another suggestion on motor instead of buying new and having to re-purpose to fix old drive components- Ebay.  Look for either a whole loco that has the brass flywheel motor (you did not say how many axles for the one you are working on-this is important bc flywheel size (length) varies depending on number of loco axles) and cannibalize the motor.  You can also get your springs and brushes this way if you chose.  Or, for less $$ but less parts, look for just the motor on Ebay.

No, I swapped a clip and brush spring from another motor.  I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I'm not that dumb   

Yep, found out the clips are discontinued.  I'll check ebay for old motors or maybe clips or a grab bag of assorted parts will show up. 

I was wondering if you had a video link on the motor disassembly but I really don't need it.   Too easy.   That motor now works by the way.  I have no idea why it didn't before but I'm going to assume it was crud on the brushes.  They were bad.

I have some tiny alligator clips that I think would work but gonna get around to trying your spade connector trick.  I have those as well.  I'll also try clipping the brush springs when I get some spares.   


Thanks

By the way.  Anyone know what the copper motor clips are officially called?   I'm missing one for the bottom (the one with the contact tangs) of one motor. 

Quote from: jbrock27 on December 28, 2014, 09:23:41 AM
The grease I mentioned is Teflon based and meshes very well to the point it almost looks like a liquid.

Which link would you like? 

And instead of soldering wires directly to the truck tops, I solder them to female 1/4" electrical connectors that easily fit on and off the truck tops, this way I can easily dissemble for any future maintenance.

Do me a favor and let me know in your search, if you ever happen to come across those headlight lenses I am looking for ?

Thanks and you're welcome

Will keep an eye for the lenses.

I just took the motor apart.  Piece of cake.  Cant see why it's dead but I'm missing a clip and a spring so I'm swapping parts around.   When I come across some part's I'll try it again.

Spades to the arms, great idea.  Those little alligator clips may work as well.   Definitely will give it a go with one of the locos.   Also, I do have some thinner Teflon grease I can try.  I have to check for plastic compatibility.  It's more of a cream consistency actually.  If it's compatible, I'll give it a try. 

Thanks. 

Quote from: jbrock27 on December 28, 2014, 08:46:55 AM
Well, glad you got it quieter.  For gear grease, I like to use a fishing reel lube that is plastic safe and can be found for cheap at Walfart or KMart.

Those are the good Athearn motors.  The flywheels should just pull off while pulling/twisting them while holding the opposite flywheel.  I have come across some stubborn ones that were 2nd hand that I have to belive someone glued and never has success in taking them off.  I also once found that one half a motor cradle was cracked and had to get a replacement motor-there is no successful way of gluing delrin plastic that I know.  

Agree, start with the dead one first.  Watch for the brush springs as you take the copper clips off.  I start with the end where the brushes are to relieve the tension there and then when I do the other end, I take the clip off.  Then I dump the springs somewhere safe like an old vitamin container or old plastic pill bottle so they don't get lost.  Check the clips on the one with the missing stuff, to make sure things did not go missing bc of the clip being faulty.  I clean the copper clips by soaking them in vinegar.
The brushes I put in something sealed, like a vitamin container with Isopropyl Alcohol to clean them and when I take them out to reassemble, I wipe them with rag.  Don't try to clean the springs.  I do clip a couple of coils off each one (like 2 mms), it helps get more realistic slow speeds.
If you can get the flywheels off and got to take the motor apart for cleaning, make sure you mark the magnets as "top" and "bottom" for reassembly otherwise the motor will run in op postie direction.  Gently chuck the motor shaft opposite the commutator in a drill and use an eraser or softer version track cleaning block to get the gunk off.  When done with that, use a #11 Exacto blade to clean the gunk out of the groves of the commutator.
Oh and while you are doing all of this, you should have the trucks (make sure you mark "front" for the front one) apart, to have the plastic gears soaking in warm soapy water, clean the wheels....Want more info?  There is also a great piece on this on the web, with pics.  Also found a great YouTube recently on using a drill or drill press to clean and polish the older Athearn sintered wheels.

I was using a thicker fishing reel lube (grease) on the gears.  I've had it forever and that's what I've always used.   I tried that on the GP30, then after another clean, an even thicker Teflon based lube.  This last time I tried the Bachmann stuff.   I think the thicker grease prevents the gears from fully meshing and maybe that accounts for the chatter.  The Bachmann pink stuff is more like a gel and is thinner than the other two.  But the gear mesh thing is just a theory and I could be very wrong. 

On the athearns, I pretty much got everything covered in terms of maint. with the exception of the motors.   Great info on that, thank you.   I'll operate on the dead one when I get a chance.  Do you have that web link?

Quote from: Len on December 28, 2014, 08:04:42 AM
The Athearn motor brushes (ATH90037) are out of stock until March 2015. They're $11.98 for a bag of 24. The brush springs (ATH84014) are currently in stock. They're $8.98 for a bag of 36.

Len

Thanks Len.   No rush but I'll check ebay and online stores too.