Quote from: Awesometrain77 on November 27, 2023, 05:22:23 PM12 tons vans are cool I plan on buying a few such as the mr.jolly chocolate vans , or the funfair ones that are announced , maybe one or two blue ones for the flying kipper. These are really cool and underrated .

I'm excited for the chocolate and Brendam Bay Shipping Company vans as well, however, those are actually based on the existing vent van tooling, not the new 12 ton wagon tooling. I don't think many people even realized the 12 ton vans are going to be completely different models. I edited the post to hopefully make this a bit more clear.

I know that the new announcements came out quite a while ago at this point, but I have been wanting to give my thoughts on the HO scale 12 Ton vans, especially because I feel they were a bit overshadowed by some of the other products Bachmann announced. Understandably, most people were more excited by new characters over some basic rolling stock, but as someone who is really interested in the different types of rolling stock seen throughout the show, these wagons being made in HO is a dream come true.

This was the part where I was going to go into great detail about the history of these wagons on the show, but I realized that unless you are obsessed with minor rolling stock details like me, it probably wasn't very engaging. So instead I will give a very brief overview.

Some people may not even realize this, but the new 12 Ton Vans are going to be new tooling when compared to the existing vent vans. The HO vent vans are based on 12 Ton GWR vent vans, and while this vans did exist on the show, they were not as common as some other wagons. However, this new vans will be based on LNER 12 ton vans, just like the G and N Scale models.

The 12 Ton LNER vans first appeared in the Series 2, four of them were made for the show using Tenmille kits. In Series 7, many more were made, this time they were scratch built resin models. These new models would become the de facto vent van seen until the end of the HiT era. When the show went to CGI, the LNER vans would also be the only vent van model to survive the switchover, making them the sole vent van representation until the end of the series.





I have always wanted these wagons in HO, especially after they came to the G and N scale ranges. They were much more prevalent in the show when compared to the GWR 12 ton vent van model the HO scale had. However, I figured Bachmann would never go out of their way to introduce a new tooling when they could continue simply repainting what they already had, and I am very glad to have been proven wrong on that.

All this being said, there is a reason I find the Bachmann iteration of these vans to be so interesting, and that is the fact they are based on their model series counterparts, despite these vans being so prominent in CGI. This can easily be recognized by their vent sizes. Both the G and N scale models have small raised vents, a feature that was only seen on the Series 7 models. When Nitrogen modeled these wagons in CGI, they actually used an original Tenmille model as reference, meaning that it has a larger vent on each end. Even the colors of the original three vent vans introduced in G scale were based on the three colors the Series 7 vans were painted(Grey, Green, and Brown).





I find it very interesting that Bachmann is still able to use model series reference sheets when it comes to rolling stock. Although a CGI image was used for the promo in the announcement, Doug Blaine said that these wagons will be the exact same wagons seen in G and N scale ranges, just scaled to HO. This makes me hopeful that the same references are being used.

I personally really want the smaller vent variant to be made, because I feel I would give Bachmann the perfect opportunity to make a new Troublesome Truck in the future. Although crew members on the show have never outright stated it, many believe the Series 7 vans were given the modified vents in order to fit the large scale troublesome truck faces, which could not fit on the original models. Unfortunately, this never got to happen on screen due to the HiT Entertainment takeover. Some of those faces are iconic, and would make for a great troublesome truck. To me, this wagon would be the best way to make use of one of those faces. 







Here are some recent photos of the props, showing what a troublesome 12 Ton Van could look like, and some other potential faces. Although, it is worth noting that the specific reference sheet I posted does not contain every large scale van face on it. 

I would love to hear what other people think about these new wagons. I enjoy getting an excuse to talk about stuff like this, so hopefully some of you found my discussion of rolling stock interesting.

Also, I would like to shout out @LewRaccoon on Twitter for most of the photos.

Quote from: Armada Starscream on February 10, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Not just any fan: One of the major voices in the Thomas Fandom as a whole. To me it was them saying to the fans "You are out there, and we see you."

Mattel obviously does not care about what the fans think of the show or Thomas' roots considering the new reboot series. Ryan Hagan and SiF have had insider connections at Mattel for quite a while, which is why he got a character named after him. It's not as though Mattel just did it out of the kindness of their heart to show how much they love the fans.

This is something I have been thinking about recently as well. I initially didn't mind these types of wagons when they were first introduced around 2015/2016. They added more variety to the range and Bachmann had made a lot of the rolling stock seen in the show at that point.  However, with the cream tanker and blue open wagon being discontinued recently, it makes me afraid that these kinds of wagons will take over the range in the future. A lot of them are gimmicky and don't have the same charm of the simple wagons because they don't look as though they belong on the show. But I guess charm doesn't matter when compared to sales, and if old wagons aren't selling, Bachmann is going to discontinue them. With all that being said, I don't completely hate these wagons, and there are quite a few I really like. I just don't enjoy seeing older products being replaced by new ones that look worse because Bachmann feels they need a gimmick to sell them. I am just glad Bachmann is making the Museum Coaches, it shows they are still willing to look to the show for new products. Hopefully we can get more rolling stock based directly on TVS in the future.

I would 100% buy a Bachmann Smudger. I personally don't care to much for the CGI series, so anything relating to the classic seasons is more likely to peak my interest, but I don't see Yellow Rheneas being too popular with anyone, regardless if you like the CGI series or not. Smudger would be a new character to the range, even if he is just a Rheneas repaint.I believe that alone gives him more appeal, and would make more people consider buying him.

I took some time to gather my thoughts regarding this year's announcements, and overall, I am quite happy.

Ryan definitely makes sense as Bachmann's next engine, he is a modern character and fits nicely with Daisy being announced. I would have personally preferred a model series character such as Stepney or Stanley, but I'm not disappointed. Ryan will be the largest engine Bachmann has made in quite a while so that's exciting to see. I'm sure his model will turn out great.

The museum coaches look great, I'm glad they gave them proper white rimmed wheels too. I initially didn't care too much for them, but after seeing how nice their models are, I will probably pick them up once released.

I have no interest in Yellow Rheneas. I'm not surprised there isn't a new engine announcement this year because of Covid and all the delays that occurred as a result, but Yellow Rheneas seems quite pointless.

I hope the new box vans turn out nice, I would love to see TV Series accurate open trucks as well, although I think they are just making these vans because they are already making breakevens that share the same tooling, but you never know what could happen in the future.

Toby and S.C. Ruffy are great choices for N Scale, I will probably pick these up one day.

G Scale Paxton is a nice surprise as well, and his face looks great. The new G scale wagons are nothing special, but it is always great to see them expanding the range.

The face on the motorized line wagon looks absolutely great! It is more in line with what I was hoping for when Bachmann announced Troublesome Truck #6, and I think tanker with a face like that would be great for a future troublesome truck model. I've suggested in the past that making a tanker with a classic face would be the perfect way to bring the TAR tanker back into the range, and I still stand by that, but the face is definitely the most important aspect. As long as it has a proper classic series face, the livery doesn't matter all to much to me.

Troublesome Truck #6 is quite disappointing to me. It seems as though they took the first picture off the wiki, without putting any further research into what they were making. Considering how well truck #5 sold, you would think they would make another classic series truck, and even if they had to make a CG wagon, a standard oil design would have been much better than what they chose. It just seems like a huge missed opportunity. I'm sure there will be people who enjoy it, but I probably won't pick it up. Hopefully one day we will get a proper troublesome tanker, that isn't based on BWBA.

I definitely agree with Chaz, I'm surprised Peter Sam hasn't been talked about more. I'm personally more excited for him than Daisy.

I would prefer the model series rear window, but I can't really see that happening. Either way, a small detail like isn't gonna make or break the model for me. I usually don't like models based on their CG appearance, but the NG engines have great CG models, so they have never bothered me.

I think Sir Handel is the clear choice for the next narrow gauge engine Bachmann should produce. Both Chaz and Elsbridge Productions bring up great points about the choices Bachmann has. I definitely think Sir Handel would stand out more due to his color alone, and his model will definitely do great with those who are looking to model engines from the Talyllyn Railway.

It is hard to say what Duncan will look like if he is made. I have heard that Bachmann got the measurements for their narrow gauge engines directly from their real life counterparts. I believe this to be true due to the amount of rivet detail on Skarloey that isn't present on his CG model in the television series. If this is the case, Duncan may have a lot of issues from his CGI model fixed. Although, issues regarding his livery will still likely be present, such as his gold lining and red running board. The worse case scenario is they do what they did with Rusty and just based it directly off the show. I can see them doing this because Duncan has always looked the least like his basis when compared to the other Skarloey Railway Steam Engines, even in the model series. His TVS design is much more simplistic, and they may decide to go with that because they don't want his design to stray from the show. I hope this isn't the case, but I guess we will have to wait and see if he ever does get made.

The CG Troublesome Trucks just don't have the same charm to me. I am fully expecting some sort of CG livery on the wagon itself, but I'm hoping the face is based on the model era. Bachmann knows how much people liked Troublesome Truck #5, and I hope they took that into consideration when designing #6.

All reasonable points Mulfred. The only time I can remember where they gave us promos that didn't represent the final models were with the slate wagons. Accurate Talyllyn Railway slate trucks did appear in the CGI series, so they definitely could have chosen a better picture to represent them. You are definitely right though, I could be over thinking it and we may just get exactly what we see in the promo. Although, its still strange they specifically state that it is an "Oil Tanker" in the name if it's just gonna be purple.

Quote from: TrainFan97 on July 28, 2020, 08:53:26 PM
The fact that Troublesome Truck #6 wasn't shown yet must mean that Bachmann is still working on it.

If it's based on one of those tankers from the Season 4 episode "Toad Stands By", it will have really good sales, but if it's based on the African tanker from the illustration, the sales could be very minimal. If based on the oil tankers with faces that first appeared in Journey Beyond Sodor, the sales could be slightly better, but still not as good as the Season 4 one. If they just slap a face on the HO Scale Oil Tanker, then they might as well discontinue the faceless one.

If Bachmann wants the best sales out of Troublesome Truck #6, it must be based on the Troublesome Tankers from Toad Stands By (Season 4) because the classic (model) series is the best choice for Troublesome Trucks in general. They just don't have the same charm in the CGI series.

I always felt as though a Troublesome Tanker would work best as a TAR Wagon. Troublesome Truck #5 was based on a specific wagon from the show, and it reintroduced a discontinued item. They could have did the same thing with truck #6. Plus, basing it on a wagon from a classic episode would most likely help sales. To me, it just feels like a missed opportunity.

I think the design we can most realistically expect for truck #6 will probably be a regular CG Oil Tank. I doubt they will go with the African tank used in the promo, mainly because it is just purple, and pretty much every wagon they release nowadays has some logo or lettering on the side. Chaz bringing up that the Oil tank hasn't been released in new packaging also makes me believe this more. I wouldn't be surprised to see the regular Oil Tank be replaced by one with a face, just like they did with the Brake Van.

As for the face, I could see it going both ways. The Spiteful Brake Van shows they are willing combine elements from different sources into one model. Even if it has a CG livery, the face may be taken from the model era because they know how much of a selling point it would be. The face is definitely the most important aspect to me, and a classic face would make it a must have.

In response to TerencetheTractor525's questions:

1. Yes, I would definitely buy a Stepney model.
2. Considering how popular classic characters seem to be, it's safe too assume that Bachmann Stepney would sell well.
3. Stepney is one of the few standard gauge tank engines that I would actually be excited for. I only really care for model series characters, and even popular characters such as Ryan just wouldn't be as interesting to me personally.

My predictions for the HO Thomas ranges in 2021:

Standard Gauge:
Stepney
Well Wagon With Load
Flatbed WIth Paint Drums (Reintroduction)
Red Express Coaches (Reintroduction)

Narrow Gauge:
Sir Handel
Green Coaches

Very displeased with this year's announcements when it comes to the HO Thomas and Friends range. Two repaints of the same character in one year is disappointing to say the least, especially when most people expected more for the 75th anniversary. Hyping up the announcement on Twitter didn't help either. It made it seem as though there was more to come. I am still optimistic that next year will be better, but it's unfortunate that nothing of interest was announced for the 75th anniversary, even photos of last year's announcements would have been nice.

One thing I appreciate about these forums is how honestly people express their opinions. On Twitter, everyone seems to be afraid to criticize Bachmann, especially now that Bachmann twitter account directly interacts with the fandom. I've seen many people state that we should be thankful for whatever Bachmann puts out. This is a ridiculous statement to me. The ones who buy these products have the right to state their minds if they are dissatisfied with their new product announcements. The Bachmann Thomas line is extremely successful, so they should listen to what people want. Hopefully most people don't get the wrong idea from this post, I am a huge fan of Bachmann and their products. I don't want to direct any hate at them, but if people want to voice their dissatisfaction in a respectful manner, I believe they should be able too.