Ed--

Most sound equipped engines require a certain amount of voltage for the sounds to start.  In plain DC mode, this tends to cause a somewhat "jackrabbit" start--the sounds come on and the engine starts running at pretty much the same time.  You would have a similar start from most other sound equipped engines in DC--spending a lot more money on a high fallutin' engine still does not necessarily eliminate the jackrabbit start.

That's one very big reason why I love the MRC Sound Controller.  Operating most HO engines (since most now have DCC in them) is much smoother in "DCC mode" even though it's not DCC.

No, I'm not an MRC salesperson, but I did work for several years part time in a fine train store while attending college years ago.  MRC made good products then, and has continued to do so.

There are other sound controllers out there on the market that focus on operating the sound only, but what the plain DC users like myself really need is a good power supply and speed controller also capable of working the sound to get the slow speed performance benefits of DCC.  I don't know of any one other than the MRC.

MTH's DCS system is nice but then you are using their own proprietary version of DCC.  It is a legacy product from the early days of DCC, has some advantages in that its very easy to use, but won't play well with other manufacturers engines at all.  So their DCS controller is just a plain DC power supply for non-MTH engines.  Most people now seem to be buying the MTH engines DCC ready and then adding their own choice of decoder and/or sound aftermarket.  The MTH full DCS engines do everything they say they will do, but they aren't cheap, and not everybody likes the DCS system--the hard core DCC users find it lacking--but it is simple for the Keep it simple types out there.

Respectfully submitted--

John

Actually, you will have some sounds without buying anything else.  The chuff sounds start about the same time the engine starts moving in plain DC, but it starts rolling rather quickly for me.

To control the whistle and bell in DC mode, you will need to buy a sound controller.

I personally recommend the MRC Sound Controller 2.0.  It is both a power supply and a sound controller, and it operates DCC engines as well, with most but not all functions and some programming capabilities.  However, it provides a pseudo form of DCC that is not the same as full blown DCC.  It is very affordable and very easy to use for those people like myself who do not really want or need a DCC system.  The sound and lighting functions are simple push button number selections.  "0" turns lights on and off.  2 and 3 are short or long whistle.  1 is the bell.  I believe 8 mutes the sound while running.

I use the MRC Sound Controller to run my Bachmann Alco 2-6-0's.  I switch the mode to DC so my son can run it when I'm not home in plain DC, if he wishes to--otherwise the plain DC mode is essentially "off" but the unit is still powered on.  To turn the unit off completely one must unplug it or plug it into a surge protector and turn the surge protector off.

Switching to DCC mode, the engine startup sounds come on immediately and the air pumps begin making noise.  Where the MRC unit shines is operating the "dual mode" engines in DCC mode--they run exceptionally smoothly.  It's a wonderful controller for the money.

The Alco 2-6-0 has only a limited sound package but it sounds very good with the sounds it does make.  The MRC Sound Controller easily operates all the sound and lghting functions that the 2-6-0 provides.

My son and I both prefer the 2-6-0 to the Spectrum EM-1, so much so that my sound equipped EM-1 is on Ebay for sale now.  We simply love the little 2-6-0's and don't need the monster overhang of the huge engine.  The little engines for us are just more fun--and I never dreamed I'd ever say that.

Respectfully submitted--

John

As I said above, the New York Central, even being the "Water Level Route" did roster 2-6-6-2's, and besides running into some rugged northern branch lines in Pennsylvania, were they not also used on the Boston and Albany in New England?  

I have no information to confirm or not confirm.

Also--there is a wonderful book out there--actually a 2 volume set--Robert A. LeMassena's "Articulated Steam Locomotives of North America".  It documents that in fact most railroads actually did roster articulated steam engines at one time or another, and it is filled with rare images of as many engines as he could obtain photographs of.  It is an excellent reference book, and not that difficult to find.  I highly recommend it.

I also believe the above "fast freight" post to be quite good and rather accurate--back then "fast" was a relative term, and may have related more to schedule and priority rather than pure speed.  Therefore, many roads did entrust normal manifest freight to articulated steam power.  Some operating folks wanted to have an engine that could empty out the entire yard and take it down the line to the next desired point.

John

New York Central did use 2-6-6-2's.  They are documented to have run on the Pine Creek Branch south from New York State into PA.  They would have hauled whatever freight traffic there was.

John

A precious few railroads still are fan friendly.

Reading & Northern is one.  Stop at the main office.  Go inside and speak to the adminstrative assistant and nicely explain that you are a railfan and wish to photograph some trains, and they'll tell you what's coming and what's where on the railroad.  If I recall, one signs in (their book) as well--and they'll let you have reasonably free reign of the yard area--within certain limits.  Then sign out when you leave...

If you treat them as professionals, and follow their instructions, they usually return the same courtesy to you.

The rules are for your safety--never walk within 25' of the end of a cut of cars, etc.--because the slack can run out and the coupler then may even have enough force behind it to go right through one's body on impact.

Best regards--

John

So for those reasons I'll stick to the available books and dvd's to assist my steam era modeling efforts.

Respectfully submitted--

John

Quote from: jward on June 07, 2012, 05:59:36 PM
there is still stuff from the transition era, just not in revenue service. norfolk southern, for one, still has southern gondolas from the 1930s in m of w service. you have to look for it but it's still out there.

During the late 1980's I saw some leftover transition era freight cars at Newberry Junction, PA.  There were PRR X-29 boxcars in mow service, and a few old 1950's (build date) gondolas still in revenue service at that time.  They are all long gone.

I pass by Enola Yard several times per day.  The mow gondolas are of all welded construction, generally Southern Railway, but 1960's or later build date cars.

Conrail and subsequently NS have used 1970's built all-welded Bethlehem Steel gondolas for mow service in the north--that's where several of the Reading Railroad class GHY cars ended up (though a few are still in revenue service).

Excepting two Erie Lackamoney 52' mill gondolas (exact car series modeled by Proto 2000)  I saw a couple years ago on a siding in the weeds at Harrisburg Yard, that appeared as if they hadn't moved anywhere in quite some time, I have not personally seen any legitimate transition era (not later rebuilds) freight cars in many years.

Assuming you are still finding some, you are very fortunate indeed. 

I photographed some of the last ones I had seen, and unfortunately, the photos weren't very good, and I'm just beyond railfanning anything now.

It helps that my one friend has already been detained by railroad police and if he ever so much as sets foot on one of the big eastern railroads again, he has been informed that he will be arrested for trespassing.  The idiot he was with gave up the driver's license to the railroad police cop--don't ever do that voluntarily--they log it and threaten you with prosecution the next time.

John

I started out with diesels on my first layout, and with a few minor exceptions, diesel power is all I've ever seen working.

Of course I've ridden the Grand Canyon Railway in the dome car behind 4960, Steamtown in the fall, New Hope & Ivyland, and Strasburg--many times to Strasburg in recent years with small boys at home and living only an hour away--too many Days out with Thomas.

I'm about to be 44 next week, have been in model trains for 39 years, and just simply prefer steam power at this point.

I've owned all kinds of diesels, including PA's, E's, F's, Alco Centuries, SD-40 variants, and the latest modern stuff, both in HO and in large scale--outside in my back yard.

However, I simply prefer steam.  I am utterly fascinated by the design, engineering, and operational aspects of steam power, and only now, after all these years in this hobby, am I truly able to appreciate the mundane small steam engines that worked everywhere doing everything, as well as the big power.

On my layout, diesels are on the way out for good.  All that remains are an Atlas ACL S-2 and a Bowser Alco C628 Demonstrator.  They both belong to my youngest son, otherwise, they would already have been gone on Ebay--with all the rest of the diesels.

I do not railfan anymore as there's nothing running everyday that I need to see, and no old freight car survivors out there in revenue service leftover from the transition era.

John

It is far better to tweak an existing boiler than to do a brand new boiler.

From having worked for a model train manufacturer, it generally costs a lot more to tool a brand new boiler than it does to tool different domes and other small details that can be varied.

Though I too would love a DRGW C-48--it's one very nice, balanced appearing loco.  Some exposed piping, but not too much of anything...not a rolling pipefitter's nightmare like some other engines.  (Nothing directed at Ma & Pa engines...I'm just not familiar with them like I am some other railroads.  I would not be opposed to a Ma & Pa engine).

John

Which is exactly the reason why I posted above regarding this:

Take the Bachmann 2-8-0, which already exists, and create some more road specific versions.

For example:

Perhaps move the bell, headlight, numberboards as needed--perhaps do a couple cabs and tenders--perhaps do a couple versions of the front steps/minor running board changes.  They will sell and Bachmann doesn't even need to tool a whole new engine!

My understanding based upon the research of others (found elsewhere online) is that the 2-8-0 appears to be most nearly of GM&O/IC lineage, with some modifications--so why not offer the correct "as built" or "as modernized" version (I don't care which--the one that appears to be closest to the model) with the correct paint and lettering for that road--and add some additional roads as well?

Perhaps offer the New England railroad(s) style arched cab side windows, or go a step farther and vary the domes--remove the domes from the main boiler (if not so already) so they can be varied if desired.

Some incremental improvements would pacify the rivet counters and possibly increase sales (though it is apparently already a pretty good seller).

Of course I'd prefer a new from the ground up western style generic 2-8-2--but in terms of tool and die costs, it might be more cost effective to make incremental improvements to existing offerings.  If I were Bachmann, I would seek to maximize the return on the existing tooling as much as possible, so I'd offer a few variations based upon existing models.

This assumes the existing tooling is still deemed as not being "too dated" ie not up to today's standards etc.

John

You contended that diesels are built in far superior numbers to steam or rather that the market greatly prefers diesel power.  I disagreed.

What I said is if one looks at the total dollars spent upon motive power, it would be more nearly even (because steam generally costs more per unit sold).  If the dollars spent are more nearly even, then it is not necessarily accurate to say that people generally prefer diesel over steam.  There are some who buy diesels only because they are cheaper, or because steam has the reputation of being more hassle to operate.

Dummy units are no longer made because most of the cost is now in the assembly, detailing and finishing of the shell, and packaging for dummy units might be slightly different.  It is therefore easier for the manufacturer to just make everything powered--that way people can run longer trains--which most want to do anyway (maximize the length of train on their own layout).

Lots of steam engines get sold because people "just want to have one (big boy, or GS-4, or fill in the blank)".  Even though they may have primarily diesel power on their layout, a significant portion of buyers will always want to have that one big or special "excursion" engine or big boy or whatever feeds their ego.  I don't think steam will go away entirely.  That's the real point.

As David P. Morgan and others wrote, the diesel is not nearly as satisfying to the senses as steam, which seems to be a living breathing beast.

John

P.S. Bachmann is the one manufacturer who still seems to make plenty of stock for store (or at least distributor) shelves, rather than just to cover pre-orders plus a small percentage.  If one wants a particular Bachmann engine, one can usually find a distributor that has or can get one.  That is not necessarily the case with the other guys.

The manufacturers do not sit around and say "this is a diesel so we'll make twice as many".

Instead they say "how many do we need to sell for this to be a viable project".  Then they hit that quantity, or exceed it if they can, but though many people do buy diesels, it is a bit overly simplistic to assume they vastly outsell steam, if you would make a comparison based upon dollars spent and not merely units.

BLI manages to keep producing runs of steam power that get gobbled up, but the diesels may languish on the shelves, depending on the model.

John

Doneldon--

First, it seems you may be over-thinking in your post above.

The inventory of modeltrainstuff does not necessarily reflect real demand--only their supply--what they ordered, and nothing more.

I guarantee you right now that if they had more Tangent WM or Lehigh Valley Bethlehem Steel gondolas, they would be gone instantly--within a day, as would some Alco PA's that just sold like hotcakes.  When one watches their inventory on a daily basis, one can see when they go back and order extra quantities of some items.

There are many times I've had to go elsewhere and spend more money to buy things that they were sold out of--because they are the first dealer to sell out of inventory due to their very favorable price structure.

Second--you are very likely mistaken if you think the diesels are being done in large runs--especially relative to Bachmann's rather large production runs of steam power.

SD-50's are not what I would consider common--they were not anywhere nearly as reliable as the engines they were built to replace (the SD40-2's).  For the big Class 1 railroads, both the General Motors'/EMD -50 and -60 series engines have been more trouble than they were worth.  They pushed the prime mover beyond where it should have gone, reliability suffered, and this resulted in General Electric becoming the number one builder in America.

Today there are -50 series engines going to scrap while large numbers of SD40-2's soldier on, perhaps in rebuilt form.

However, the SD40-2 is arguably the greatest diesel model ever built for what it accomplished during its generation of railroading.

Diesel Era has published a number of fine articles on both the EMD -50 and -60 series diesels.  They get into the cold hard facts about these engines. On Seaboard/CSX the SD-50's failed to live up to the railroad's expectations for them, and were subsequently banished to low priority, non-time-sensitive trains.  This is very well documented in Diesel Era.  Back issues are available if you go to their website.  There was at least one feature article on the Seaboard/CSX SD-50's, but I do not remember which year it was done.

For factual information, great photos, and great history, Diesel Era is probably the best diesel magazine there is.

https://secure.witherspublishing.com/catalog/3

John

Regarding tool and die costs for plastic injection molded models--yes, I'm very well aware--but what do you do when virtually all the PRR stuff has been done?

BLI is approaching the end of PRR steam power that will have significant national sales appeal.  Perhaps they're not there quite yet--the H-10 is coming, and the L-1 mikado would be a wonderful, common-sense choice--but most of the larger PRR steam classes have been done by somebody.

The USRA steam, for the most part, has been done--though the manufacturers continue to milk that cow.

So I think it is time for some of the "other guys" engines to get done.  Folks have been clamoring for the Northern Pacific 4-8-4, but for whatever reason, it hasn't happened in plastic yet.

Wouldn't it be neat if Bachmann could take the 2-8-0 and upgrade it into perhaps a few more detailed/road specific versions and still crank them out in some quantity?  Would the market go for such an animal the way it seems to gobble up USRA steamers and PRR or UP steam power?