Greg  the first loco with the socket was the K27.  None of the Shays ever had the socket.

It is my understanding that the function pins for all Bachmann locomotives that have ever had the socket are low current pins.  Thats part of the design.

The + and - connections are not low current.  These pins power the elecronics, the functions, the smoke unit, and the fans.

Stan

All the function pins on the socket used by bachmann (including the smoke pin) are low current control function pins and have all the protection circuits inside the locomotive.

Using the smoke unit as an example, the smoke function pin is low current while the power to actualy produce smoke is consumed through the + and - pins.

In your wiring diagram you have neglected to connect the + and - connections to the locomotive.  Without these connections there is no power being provided to the locomotive to operate the functions. The total current of all the functions and the smoke unit draw goes through this connnection so do ensure that your product can support the load.

Please also note that your locomotive had an excellent chuff unit.  I do not believe that the product you are using can take adadvantage of this feature.

Hope that Helps

Stan

Bachmann is a sponsor of this show and will be the show this weekend with there latest Large Scale items

Northeast Large Scale Train Show

April 28 & 29, 2023

Friday - 9:00 am to 5:00 pm

Saturday - 9:00 am to 5:00 pm

Eastern States Exposition - Young Building, West Springfield, MA

West Springfield, Massachusetts

nelsts.org





Who's At The Show

The Northeast Large Scale Train Show features 45 exhibitors: operating layouts, manufacturers, and retailers.



For a complete list of of Who's Who at the show, click here.

Live Steam-Up

The New Hampshire Garden Railroad Society is hosting a "Live Steam-up" at the show, and providing a 44' x 22' Gauge-1 (45mm) track space for steam-powered trains. They are also providing space to store and service steam locomotives during the show.



The society is also inviting anyone with an operating Gauge-1 steam locomotive to bring it to the show and run it on their tracks. Please note however that only propane and butane fueled locomotives will be allowed to run. Open flame or coal fired locomotives can be displayed, but cannot be fired indoors.




Drag & Brag

The Drag & Brag table is one of the most popular events at large scale train shows. It's an opportunity for large scale modelers to bring in projects and show them to an admiring audience. Show visitors, in turn, get to see some really creative modeling and ask questions about how the work was done.



Show visitors are eligible to bring large scale modeling projects for display.


Clinics

The Large Scale Show will offer four clinics, lead by some of the hobby's most experienced modelers. Access to all clinics is included with show admission.



Battery controlled locomotives - Don Sweet
Large scale operations - Stan Ames
Pruning garden railroad miniature plants - Nancy Norris
Garden railroad access - Nancy Norris


Clinic details



White Elephant Section

The White Elephant Table is one of the most popular sections at large scale shows. If you have any S-scale, O-scale, G-scale, F-scale, 7.25 gauge, 7.5 gauge and larger model railroad gear, you are welcome to bring the items to show and sell them at the White Elephant Table.



For more information, click here.



Raffle

The Steam Locomotive Operation Group is sponsoring a raffle at the Northeast Large Scale Train Show. $2400 worth of large scale gear has been donated.



The full list of donated items and raffle details can be found here.

Train Show Banquet

On Friday evening, April 28, the Large Scale Train Show banquet will be held at the Storrowton Tavern on the grounds of Eastern States Exposition

.

The event starts at 6:00 pm and is sponsored by Only Trains.



Seating is limited to 60 guests. For reservations, contact the Show Office at: showoffice@amherstrail.org.

Hope to see you there

Stan Ames

You may be out of luck depending on which Acccucraft tender you have,

The problem is the coupler pocket.  The Bachmann locomotive couplers use a pocket that normally is not a seperate part.  I believe that the only Bachmann option is to use a drop down freight car coupler which uses the same box as the Kadee  #830 or #906.  This coupler box is longer then the Accucraft coupler box and will not fit on many of the Accucraft tenders.  If this voupler box does not fit the ony other option is to either have someone 3D print one for you or use a transition car with a coupler at the body height at one end and a truck height at the other end.

Hope this helps

Stan

Quote from: yellow_cad on April 15, 2023, 12:39:05 PMI want to couple a tender with body couplers to a car with truck couplers so I need it to offset to a lower height.  Jim

We would like to assist you but to do so we need the exact tender you are wishing to install the ofset down coupler on.


The reason is that there are several options depending of the exact coupler pocket the tender has.

Bachmann produced a drop down coupler for freight cars or tenders that use the standard coupler box, the same larger box that kadee uses.

Bachmann also produced a varietf of other drop down couplers for its 2 gen 2-6-0, latest 4-6-0, C-19 K27, forney, climax and 2-6-6-2.

If you let us know the exact tender you wish to install the drop down coupler or better yet a photo of the existing coupler pocket as well as an identification of the tender, then we can identify what your best option is.

Without this information it is impossible to provide you accurate information.

Hope that helps

Stan

Bachmann produced several options for this.  Which tender will you be putting the couple on?

Stan

While the socket used in the Dash 9 is identical to the one used by bachmann in its steam locomotives since 2007, it's new for the 1:29 diesel folks, especially to the Revolution Train engineer folks.

To assist this population I thought it useful to go over the functions.

The Dash 9 has 8 functions each of which can be controlled separately.  To activate a function you simply connect the function pin to ground.

On J1 there are three functions

Front Headlight J1-4  1.9 mA
Rear Headlight J1-9  1.9  mA

Most users will connect these terminals to a function output on the device they put in the socket which switches the pin to ground to turn them on.  Doing it this way allows directional or independent control and also headlight dimming. through the device installed in the socket.

There is one identified compatibility that has been identified. Revolution has two sets of products.  One provides linear motor control and one provides PWC motor control.  Unfortunately the PWC frequency and approach used by Revolution is not compatible with the Dash 9 headlight lighting circuits. The revolution engineers are aware of this and hopefully will have a solution with their plug in board adaptor shortly.

The third function on J1 is the Smoke activation function.

J1-8 Smoke Activation 11.2mA  The smoke unit itself draws up to around  0.6A. but this current is funneled through the + and - connections and not through the function pin.

This function pin can be connected to any available function output or you can manually install a wire between the J1-8 solder pad and the J1-7 ground solder pad.  When this is done the switch on the top of the locomotive can be used to turn on and off the smoke.

J2 functions,  Plug in devices specifically designed for Aristocraft locomotives normally do not support connections to J2.  The total current draw is well under 50mAs so all the functions can be connected to the revolution functions if so desired.

J2-10 Front Number board lights 5.5 mA (2 leds)
J2-9 Cab Light 2.8 mA
J2-8 Safety Lights 20.1 mA (8 leds)
J2-7 Right Ditch Light  2.8 mA
J2-6 Left Ditch Light  2.8 mA

Note a feature not documented in the manual is that the front ditchlights will not turn on if the front headlight is also not on. 

One issue with the revolution is that although you can hook up 6 functions, 3 of these functions also share sound functions.

Some suggested mapping for the Revolution folks. The safety lights can either be connected to ground or connected to the function number that turns on the sound.
The left and right ditch lights can be connected to a seperate blinking circuit which is connected to the horn function or to one of the three separate functions.  You can also connect both ditchlight solder pads to the -(gnd) solder pads.  In this case the ditchlights will always go on when the front headlight is also on.

I hope this helps explain how the functions work on the Dash 9.  The upcoming GP40 will likely have similar function mappings.
Stan Ames

I called the Bachmann service department and got the answer.  Thanks goes to them for the answer.

1) remove the front and rear coupler by removing the screw and pulling the coupler and pocket out from the shell.

2) there are two additional screws that need to be removed.  One in front of the fuel tank on the firemans side and one behind the fuel tank on the engineers side.


Once these two additional screws are moved the shell easily lifts off.

Hope that helps

Stan

I have removed the front and rear couplers of the locomotive and the shell appears loose.  However it seems to get stuck just a little ways of the frame.  I checked the exploded diagrams but that did not help.

Any idea how to remove the shell completely?

Thanks

Stan

All the Bachmann locomotives with sockets have protection cirtuits built in to protect the electronics. If you use the board with wires it is important that the + wire goes to the + output for the device you are incerting in the socket and the - wire go to a ground connection on the device you are installing in the socket.

All the lighting circuits can be directly wired to the function outputs on your desired devoce.

Hope that helps

Stan

No extra resistors are needed.  All the required electronics are in the Dash-9

Simply connect the wires from the dummy board with wires to the decoder of your choice.

Please ensure that in addition to the track and motor wires that you connect the + and ground wires included on the dummy board with wires, to the + and ground connections on your desired decoder.  These are required to power the electronics within the Dash-9

Stan

Greg

I really do not know how to reply to your message.

In the 2006-2007 timeframe Aristocraft, Bachmann, QSI, ESU, Digitrax and the NMRA DCC working group under topic 0707092 worked to develop a standard for Large scale locootives. 

Both Louis Polk of Aristo and Lee Riley of Bachmann signed off on the eventual standard proposal and indicated plans to incorporate the updated socket standard in all future production of locomotives that used the socket.  Alas Louis never followed through with his implementation so no formal NMRA standard was submitted or approved.

There was one mistake on the chuff pin in the origional standard proposal.  While everyone thought it would work with all sound decoders in the mrket at that time, in reality it only worked with ESU. Because of this the specification for the chuff pin was changed to ground and all locomotives Bachmann has produced with the socket since the K-27 have incorporated that revision.  To my knowledge that is the only revision to the socket ever made.

There has been no change to this socket concept since 2008.  You can trust that the socket in Bachmann Locomotives exactely follows this proposed standard.

Pins J2-1 and J2-3 are the speaker pins.  The choise of the use of these pins was proposed by Louis and adapted by the committee.

J2-6 through J2-10 are function outputs.  There is no specified specification for which pin is used to control which specific locomotive function.   Various locomotives have had different features and as such the 5 function outputs control different locomotive features in various locomotives.  This in no different then any other socket specification.

The Dash-9 uses all five of these function pins. 
J2-10   Front Number Boards
J2-9   Cab Light
J2-8   Safety Lights
J2-7   Right Ditch Light
J2-6   Left Ditch Light

Together with the front headlight, rear headlight, and smoke function on J1 this means that the Dash-9 has eight seperaterly controllable function available.

Hope that helps clarify this issue.

Stan

Greg


Answers in line beliw

     Short note on the socket/smoke connections:
     Small clarification on the smoke connector, was never properly controlled by any decoder as I remember, and
     you are indeed correct, the original Aristo implementation was to be just jumpering the 2 pins, having the
     Bachmann socket have a logic level is an improvement, and if it works great!

     Most plug and play decoders ignored the smoke pins because of this history.

For Aristo yes, for Bachmann no  All PNP decosers built to run in Bachmann locomotives have always incorporated the smoke pin.  I believe the K27 came out is 2007  Beginning with the K27 up to now with the Dash 9 the smoke pin has always been a low current function output just like any other function output.  The way it work is that the function output controls a power transistor which provides power to the actual smoke unit.

    The J2 pins are free to use, but saying Bachmann meets that standard is a bit tongue in cheek, there is NO
    standard. By the way, congrats on supplying the plug in board with the wires brought out, although it would
    be nicer if there were screw terminals, but I understand the cost issue. It's definitely a good move anyway.

 Note because Aristo randamly put power on some of the pins on J2, PNP decoders designed for Bachmann locomotives should not be used on Aristo locomotives unless care is taken to isolate the J2 pins on Aristo locomotives before you plug the device in.

The J2 pins are NOT free to use.  Each of the 11 pins on J2 is will defined (well it is true that the 2 trainbus pins on J2 have not been total defined and remain unused). It is an open standard. Up to now there has always been coordination with the manufacturers on how to use these pins.  While the K27 did not have the plug in board with wires, all Bachmann locomotives that incorporate the socket since then have had this part.

   On the wheels:
   Apparently you do not understand the "D cut" axle "story" at all, but you are not an Aristo expert. Only the   
   prime movers in the very last production runs of the Dash 9 and SD45 had them.

Oh I understand this issue completely.  I am a fan of D axels, especially for Steam.  There are two critical standards for wheels, Back to Back and Check Guage.  Unfortunately many large scale models have a flange thigkness that is greater then allowed by the standard.  The result is that a compromise must be made with thick flanges to get them as close as possible while being off in both Check Gauge and Back to Back.  Usig a D axle with a good wheel provile is the easiest way to achiece conformance to wheel standards.  Alas the Aristo wheels that used the D axle had issues to a lot of users.

I do know that a lot of discussion went into the wheel selection for the Dash-9.  None of the Aristo wheels met all the desires so they talked to people and selected the wheel they felt was best.  I think it was a good choice given the constraints.

Stan

Greg

I will try to answer your questions.

       The socket is the updated pin number (from the Aristo >> Bachman)

The socket is the same as Bachmann has used on its locomotives with a socket since the K27.  While it was designed with a team of NMRA, Bachmann and Asisto engineers, Aristo never got around to fully implementing it.

    The J1 connector is completely backwards compatible to the earliest Aristo, so all PNP stuff should run

Yes and no.  The origional Aristo socket has pins associated with the smoke unit.   These are not compatible if they are used.  The Bachmann smoke pin is a low current pin same as any other lighting pin.  Also Bachmann requires that the device in the socket provide power to the locomotive on the + and - pins.  Most but not all PNP devices do.  Finially the pins on J2 are used and if you are using a PNP device that does not support J2, you will have to manually connect these.

      The extra lighting is on the second connector (there is no standard for this, but the pins are there)

There is not international approved standard for any large scale socket.  The one used by Bachmann is fully specified and freely available for anyone to use and has been for a long time.  The lighting pins used on the Dash-9 conform to this standard.
A plug in board with wires is provided to hardware a device that plugs into the socket if you are not using a plug and play device.

      the wheels are apparently the original style shiny chrome plated types
     NO information yet if the updated "D cut" wheels and axles are used

There were several types of wheels and axels used on Aristocraft locomotives throughout the years..
Apparently there was a lot of discussion Bachmann had with users on this topic.  For the Dash-9 they chose the wheel with the smaller flange and better profile and not the shintered wheel with the D axle.  The eggliners use the larger and thicker flange wheels.

      NO information yet on actual back to back, wheel contour, etc.

The Wheel contour is the same as the latter Aristo locomotives with the smaller flange. A pre production sample I saw was within the NMRA standards.  I have not tested a production sample.

     Extra switch provided to turn off porch lights, etc, sort of hidden (need screwdriv
er to move)

On the prototype the safety light are always on when the locomotive is on.  If you have something plugged into the socket you have full control of the safety lights.  When powering the locomotive in DC mode the safety lights will be on when the light switch is on.  An extra switch was added next to the socket to allod DC users to turn off all the safety lights but still keep the other lighting functions on.

    packaging better than original Aristo
    handrails installed at factory
    u-shaped main metal frame/chassis looks same

Same but with some added improvements.  For example there is now a hole in the metal frame under the fuel tank.  This allows batteries to be installed in the fuel tank with no need to remove the locomotive's shell.   Simply remove the fuel tank, install the batteries and run the battery wires up to the locomotives main board's screw terminals.

The rear coupler on the Aristo Dash-9 hangs low because the rear footplates used on other locomotives that has the coupler support is not there on the Dash-9.  The rear coupler is properly supported on the Bachmann Dash-9 locomotives.

There are several more small improvements throughout the locomotive including the details on the paint schemes used.

Hopes that helps answer your questions.

Stan

Quote from: tedyarbrough on February 13, 2023, 08:14:36 PMStan and All,
I am currently using the mylocosound board with the included spider board to wire it into tender. Chuff, bell, whistle, and standing still steam sounds all work. No headlights, firebox lights nor smoke. Chuff & bell are GREAT, but whistle is not very realistic. Just looking at other possible options.
Happy Rails To You,
Ted

Ted

Try this

In order for the functions to work properly you need to provide DC power to the + and - connections either through the spider board or to the + and - solder connections.  If your board does not provide + and - connections then a simple rectifier works fine.

An alternative is to switch the switches behing the smokebox to DC.  The settings are DC, OFF, DCC  a better wording would be ON, Off, Switched by the devoce in the socket.

Stan