Spectrum 4-4-0 - Southern - Is it extremely sensitive to trackwork?

[Pacific Northern]

Well it seemed like months but in reality it was only a couple of weeks since I ordered it, the 4-4-0 arrived today.

Coincidentally it arrived on the day I just finished laying out the final trackwork on my layout (8 x 8 x t basic shape).  Until now I only had a small test track.

I have been checking and rechecking the trackwork with various engines to ensure the trackwork was (almost) perfect. Trackwork issues seemed to have been addressed.  A long process I might add.

I tried the new 4-4-0 and it derailed at two points on the layout. I retried other engines and there was no problem, I kept trying to move the track enought to realign the problem spots - finally gave up and replaced the track at those two spots. All is well for now. I have examined the track that was replaced and find no flaws - strange.

Anyone else have similar issues? By the way the Spectrum 4-4-0 ranks with the 2-6-6-2's and the others Spectrums I have in my steam fleet.

Too bad my main preference is not diesel power as I had no problems with any othe the trackwork with any of my Intermountain, Genesis, Proto or Stewart units.

Go figure.

[SteamGene]

Model steam has always been more pickey than diesel, and the smaller the steamer, the choosier it seems to become.
Gene

[Pacific Northern]

Well, that certainly would explain why the Spectrum and Mantua 2-6-6-2's run so well.

[BaltoOhioRRfan]

the Spectrum 4-4-0 handled my terrible track work very well(only engine that tracked it!)
on teh xmas layout....but the track work was so bad i couldnt run any trains as the cars kept commin un coupled(i used track nails with using the foam road bed which was a big mistak) It only derailed once when the pilot was knocked off(which at the time i thought was broken but i turns out it only poped back in).

[Craig]

What's derailing,  the lead truck or the drivers or both? Does the front truck swivel easily? Are the wheel sets gauged? What exists at the derailing locations?

Craig

[Bojangle]

I have a  4-4-0, and the "front end" is terrible.  The pilot truck moves sideways, back and forth, rocks to 30 degrees, very sloppy.  There are little springs on top of the pilot, they don't seem to do anything. ( they may serve as a pickup) At about half throttle, it derails at no particular spot, then falls over.  Throttle is either off or very fast, hard to modulate.  But I keep it for a display mostly, one day I intend to run a bolt through it, (or a hammer).
Bo

[Pacific Northern]

The 4-4-0 was derailing initially at a switch (the pilot) and then at an ess curve.

On examining the trackwork I noticed that there were small gaps at those locations and used my rail snips and dremel to take out the gaps and now the engine runs fine. I am using ez track and even though the sections are ready to use an examination of the track shows the presence of gaps at a number of locations.

On another segment of my layout (still ez track) the engine still derails (both pilot at swithches and main drivers elsewhere),  I can keep the engine out of that area and go around.  At those spots I noticed that there are also small gaps at those locations that I will eliminate later. 

[ray46]

Try taking the spring out of the pilot.  I had a similar problem with the pilot de-railing on my Bachmann Ten Wheeler.  After I finally  removed the spring I have had no problems with it.

Ray

[ebtnut]

Always, always check both your track and your wheelsets with an NMRA guage.  Doing it by eye doesn't work, and depending on other locomotives is not good because you are assuming that their wheels are all in gauge.  Most good model RR speciailty shops stock at least the HO gauges.  If that isn't convenient, you can order direct from the NMRA through their web site.

[Pacific Northern]

I will get a track guage today.

As to the wheel spacing aspect, how would one change the spacing of the drivers or the pilot on the 4-4-0?

[Bojangle]

I am becoming more convinced that pilot derail is due to  "bounce and rebound" syndrome.  Any vertical deviation in the track (gap, dip, bump) may derail the pilot.  Excessive speed will create/magnify this syndrome, especially when traversing turnouts.  Shimming the flangeways with .010 styrene will help in the frog "dip".

Whenever a new post is about derails, I know that the first reply will be "Check wheel gauge", and that is a good place to start when troubleshooting.  I have checked all my locos and rolling stock many times, I have yet to find any wheels (or track)  not within acceptable tolerances.  Drhone makes a good point, what to do if the wheels are not in gauge.  If you are trying for a "dead center" measurement, you will just create more problems.  With today's precise CNC manufacturing, the wheel to axle fit is extremely tight.  If your new loco is out of gauge, send it back.  If your rolling stock wheels are out, replace them.  Trying to use a wheel or gear puller, or a press usually messes up the axle.

As for the spring, I believe it dampens the rebound, so I have chosen  to leave it in. The factory found it necessary.  Try removing the shocks from your car and hit a bump or chuckhole.

As for my wild little 4-4-0, at slow speeds no problem.  As Gene stated, the smaller the steamer, the more problematic, thus requiring very precise trackwork.   

Bo

[GN.2-6-8-0]

I will get a track guage today.

As to the wheel spacing aspect, how would one change the spacing of the drivers or the pilot on the 4-4-0?

As stated first check the wheel gauge with a NMRA wheel gauge.
Then the best way to change the gauge of either a lead truck or trailing truck is taking the wheels in either hand gently but firmly twist them in the direction they need to go either in or out. recheck with the gauge.
Drivers are useally splined and thats a whole different can of worms most likley needing a wheel puller.some put a drop of CA on them to assure their staying in gauge once their done.

[rogertra]

At what scale speed do you try and run your 4-4-0?

If you crack the throttle wide open, it will derail.

If you keep it at a sedate 30 to 40 smph, then you should be fine.

[jayo]

I have a few IHC old time 4-4-0's and Bachman's Standard 4-4-0's as well as some 0-4-0's, and they all run fine on my various layouts.  Size has never been an issue for me.