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Expanding “The General”

Started by billyb, February 20, 2018, 05:47:23 PM

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billyb

Received The General Civil war train for Christmas. Trying to expand layout but finding out that the engine is really struggling on ramp. Added more track to initial layout also is taxing the engine. The four front wheels of the engine seem to derail a lot.  Has anyone else experienced these issues?
I will probably go to a more robust engine.
The General is just a starter set.

Terry Toenges

How steep of a grade do you have? Do the 4-4-0's still come with rubber traction tires on them?
Feel like a Mogul.

billyb

I am using the HO scale 14 Piece EZ track Bachmann graduated Pier Set. Not sure what grade that give me. But the train really struggles.
Of the four large wheels, the two rear are rubber traction wheels.
I am adding twice as much track.  Do I need more powerful engine?

Terry Toenges

#3
I didn't know if it was slipping or not enough power for the grade you have.
The older ones were pretty strong pullers but I don't know about the newer or what they've changed. With the old ones, I could pull 30 old time cars up a 2% grade.
I just checked on the pier set and it has 7 pieces going each way. If you are putting a pier under each piece of track, that would give you 7 pieces of track to reach the 3.375" clearance the info says the pier set gives. If they  were  9" straights, that 63". So you would take the rise (3.375") and divide that by the run (63"). That give you about 0.054. Multiply that by 100 and that gives you the grade. That works out to over a 5% grade which is really steep. (3.375" / 63" = 0.05357 X 100 = 5.357% grade.) If the piers are used on curves, the 18" curves are a little longer (9 7/16" track length) so that would lessen the grade some but not by a lot.
If you stick with grades like, you should probably buy a stronger loco. It's a good idea to try to extend the grade out over more track. Maybe buy a second pier set and use two same size piers, then go up to the next size and use two more, then next size, etc. That would spread it out.
I used to have trouble with the front wheels so I made a fix for that by adding some weight to them.
http://www.sarget.com/tratip-bac440.html
Feel like a Mogul.

billyb

I am a newbie as I think I said earlier.  Your suggestions and ideas have been most helpful.  I took a look at the suggestion for weighting the front four wheels on The General, will try that. Will take a good look at slope.  Use some alcohol on the track & wheels also.
Again thanks for the information, much appreciated.

bbmiroku

When I take my track 'off the level', if I'm using track with roadbed (like Bachmann or Life-Like), then I put a pier under every 1.5 sections of track.  Sometimes 1.75, depending on the era I'm modelling at the time.  For diesels, a pier per section is quite fine.  But for steam engines, I use a pier every 1.5 track sections, 1.75 track sections on a curve.  Trains going uphill on a curve (especially a steep curve like the average 18"-radius section) can't pull as hard as the same grade on a straight track, so there needs to be a more shallow rise under the curve.  Since you're adding more track, there should be enough room to clear the train under the crossover.
Another thing I would recommend would be to put your tallest piece of train on your track and measure the total height.  You only need to clear that much vertically.  3" should be enough to clear most rolling stock and engines, especially from the 1800's.
The reason that they go up to 3.375" is to clear O-narrow gauge stock (which runs on HO rails).

Terry Toenges

When I was playing with different track plans, I used an old Amtrak passenger car and taped a piece of 1/2" foam to the top which made it taller and longer than anything I would ever be running. Then, I would roll it through whatever configuration I did. Since I was only doing shorter old time stuff, I figured doing it this way would always let me make sure I had enough clearance on the sides and top.
Feel like a Mogul.

imarollingstone

Quote from: Terry Toenges on February 21, 2018, 03:05:49 PM
It's a good idea to try to extend the grade out over more track. Maybe buy a second pier set and use two same size piers, then go up to the next size and use two more, then next size, etc. That would spread it out.

I ran into the same problem and used the suggestion above - using two pier sets to lessen the slope.  My 4-4-0s can pull 3 or 4 cars now.  I had to be careful to make sure the piers were close the track connections so the track didn't flex.

I also have tried Bullfrog Snot on one of the engines and it made a big difference.  A little tricky to apply, but it helped a lot.

bbmiroku

If you decide to use the two-pier suggestion, may I add that taking the baseplate off of the piers on some may help with a smooth transition.  So you'll end up with Pier(P)1 no baseplate (b), P1 with b; P2 no b, P2 with b; etc. and then the opposite on the way downgrade.