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Author Topic: Brill & PCC Trolleys  (Read 10787 times)
wrhyde37

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« on: February 16, 2010, 08:21:53 PM »

I am new to the trolley world.  Probably a simple question.  Would somebody please explain how these trolleys work.  I assume they have a built in motor.  What do I need to run one?  Are they DC or DCC?  Willl they go up a grade?
Thanks for the response.
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ABC
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 08:30:11 PM »

What scale? HO or N???
All the PCC and Brill trolleys are powered by standard DC and have a built in motor. You need a power source with a rheostat to control the speed and connect the two wires to the track which will be either nickel silver or steel and sometimes brass. Set the trolley on the track, plug in the power source, and turn up the dial. Use rail-joiners to connect all of your track in an oval or a point to point layout where you just change direction, like in the Bachmann auto-reversing set.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 08:38:08 PM by ABC » Logged
RAM

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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 09:39:18 PM »

Will they go up a grade.  Yes.  You only have a single car so go up a hill should not be a problem.
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wrhyde37

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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 09:42:07 PM »

Sorry about the gauge.  It's HO.  Thanks to both of you for the info.  Just what I needed
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pcctrolleyII

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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 06:56:22 PM »

Ho and N scale are both DC
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PCC trolleys for life.
on30gn15


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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 01:04:34 PM »

Would somebody please explain how these trolleys work. 
To answer that literally, with a Direct Current power supply, the + side current output is hooked to one rail, the - side to the other.
Motor in trolley or locomotive completes current across rails.
Same for lights and all.

NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) standard is train goes forward when right side rail, relative to locomotive, is +. Reverse current to make left rail + and train goes reverse.
(Garden scale, large scale, is the opposite for arcane reasons)

Which is why it still goes the same way on track if you pick it up and turn it around but leave power supply set for the same way.
Lets say your train is going forward from your left to your right.
When you pick it up and turn it around what was the right hand rail + making it go forward, is now, relative to it, the left hand rail positive, making it go backwards.
Which now that you turned locomotive around, is still left to right.

Clear as mud?  Grin

HO trains typically operate in DC on 0 to 12, or so, volts.
N was often 9 volts way back in the 1960s, but I think it is 0-12 now. N for 9 volts and 9 millimeter track gauge.

DCC (Digital Command Control) is a whole different animal.
My understanding of it is that it puts a constant current through rails and a receiver/decoder on board, which picks up some kind of control signal sent along with the current, controls how much current is sent to motor, lights, sound system, et cetera.
Kinda, sorta, in a way, like radio control except the signal is sent through the rails.

Now, for an added wrinkle, it is possible to convert trolleys to actually take one side of the current from the trolley wire.
Or third rail if that is what was used.
Some different models come from factory with that option.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 01:10:09 PM by on30gn15 » Logged

When all esle fials, go run trains
Screw the Rivets, I'm building for Atmosphere!
later, Forrest
ebtnut

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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 04:22:44 PM »

Stringing working overhead for traction models will separate the men from the boys, especially in the smaller scales.  I think the Bachmann Peter Witt has the option to use the trolley pole. 
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ABC
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 04:41:36 PM »

Here's all the Bachmann HO locos that have the option to run off the overhead wires:

DCC-Equipped Peter Witt Street Car
Road Name: Undecorated
Product Information
    * DCC-equipped for speed, direction, and lighting
    * dual-mode decoder with NMRA 8-pin plug for DCC or DC operation
    * two-position switch (underside of car) for choice of overhead wire or track pickup
    * all-wheel drive
    * precision can motor with two flywheels
    * hidden drive train and electronics
    * room for speaker
    * die-cast frame and interior
    * painted interior with seats
    * photo-etched brass safety screen
MSRP: $143.00
Product Code: 84601


 Acelaฎ HHP-8 locomotive features:
    *DCC ready
    *interior selector switch for choice between rail or pantograph operation
    *die-cast gear towers and chassis
    *5-pole, skew wound motor


GE E33
Road Name: Conrail #4608
Features include:
• DCC ready
• die-cast frame
• operating pantograph
• 5-pole skew wound motor
• dual flywheel and die cast gear box
• 12-wheel drive
• working headlight
• RP25 metal wheels
• E-Z Mateฎ Mark II couplers
Product Code: 82406


Locomotive features:
• interior selector switch for choice between rail or pantograph operation
• die-cast gear towers and chassis
• 5 pole, skew-wound, precision balanced motor
• working directional headlights, ditch lights, and markers
• operating doors
• DCC ready
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ABC
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 04:45:26 PM »


Or you can use this pole from Bowser, if you want to run off live overhead power.
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pipefitter


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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 06:40:45 PM »

I have GG1's from Mehano, in both the one motor and two motor versions. They can be run from either the two rails or from one rail and overhead wire. There is a switch on the underside of the locos to pick either configuration. I have toyed with the idea of running some overhead wire after having worked at a trolley museum which had a layout.



I have the new Bachmann DCC-Equipped E60CP Locos which have a serious looking, metal pantograph on top in place of the two plastic arms on an earlier version. This looks to be a possible overhead runner as well - I'll have to investigate. The E60 and GG1 would be well paired on a NE Corridor style railroad. Probably have to take out the decoder - I run DC only.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 06:43:00 PM by pipefitter » Logged

Grew up next to B&O's Metropolitan Branch - Silver Spring Maryland
ebtnut

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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2010, 09:40:41 PM »

If you REALLY want to see how much you can take, try scratchbuilding heavy electric catenary.  A lot of folks in the past have just gone to pre-fab systems such as Mearklin. 
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Woody Elmore

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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 09:59:42 AM »

pipefitter - I envy you working in a trolley museum. Of course GG-1s worked under much heavier wire. It would be a challenge to duplicate PRR style catenary wire. It's been done in the past but it's a lot of work. There is some eurpean style catenary available. Most modelers wouldn't know the difference.
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pipefitter


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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2010, 02:16:11 PM »

If you REALLY want to see how much you can take, try scratchbuilding heavy electric catenary.  A lot of folks in the past have just gone to pre-fab systems such as Mearklin. 

I've always been surprised by large number of bids and high prices that those parts and pieces bring on eBay Shocked Buying new is pretty pricey too. However, I suppose it's a trade off for the great amount of work that they make up for.

Robert
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Grew up next to B&O's Metropolitan Branch - Silver Spring Maryland
pipefitter


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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 02:50:41 PM »

pipefitter - I envy you working in a trolley museum.

I worked on track with a crew, replacing rotten ties and adding ballast to level up sagging sections. We got to build several turnouts from scratch and a very small yard when they added a new three stall barn. I told people that I would only do that work as a volunteer as it was so hard you couldn't pay me enough to do it Grin We worked early on weekend mornings before the museum opened to the public and were usually spiking the last new tie when the first trolley came. We called ourselves "maintenance in the way." One got a lot of satisfaction from a big job accomplished and we enjoyed lunch together at a favorite local pub afterward.

Quote
Of course GG-1s worked under much heavier wire. It would be a challenge to duplicate PRR style catenary wire. It's been done in the past but it's a lot of work. There is some eurpean style catenary available. Most modelers wouldn't know the difference.

I'm pretty easy and would be thrilled with anything as long as it worked. I forgot to add in my earlier post that I also have two Atlas AEM-7's, one AMTRAK and the other MARC so have a pretty good fleet of electric NE Corridor locos. I retired a couple of years ago and now have some time on my hands. I have always had a love of craft. I began as a pipefitter apprentice for the Navy (civilian) and ended as a technician who built and installed precision test instruments. Started out silver soldering 8" naval red brass pipe and ended up soldering 24K gold wire under a microscope. I have two complete sets of American Beauty resistance soldering setups with all the attachments that had been thrown out as "old fashioned". Would like to give them a try. Look at this great web site for some pretty neat home built catenary.

Robert

http://prrnortheastcorridor.com/NORTHEASTCORRIDORHO.html

« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 09:34:00 PM by pipefitter » Logged

Grew up next to B&O's Metropolitan Branch - Silver Spring Maryland
pipefitter


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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 03:11:59 PM »

... I have the new Bachmann DCC-Equipped E60CP Locos which have a serious looking, metal pantograph on top in place of the two plastic arms on an earlier version. This looks to be a possible overhead runner as well - I'll have to investigate. The E60 and GG1 would be well paired on a NE Corridor style railroad. Probably have to take out the decoder - I run DC only.

I figured it would be a good idea to take out the decoder because of possibly more intermittent power pickup glitches due to less than perfect wire contact. However, when going back to this layout web site HO Philadelphia (Philadelphia terminal)@Prrnortheastcorridor.com I see that he is running this with a Bachmann DCC Dynamis system (look under Model Railroad Layout at a Glance) However, it seems that he has converted his locos to run with both rails being one polarity and the overhead wire the other. This would seem to improve things but would restrict the layout to converted locos only. I run DC only but have been reading on this forum that many feel that DCC is very fussy about power pickups.

http://prrnortheastcorridor.com/NORTHEASTCORRIDORHO.html

Pretty neat light rail and trolley operations on his city streets too!
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Grew up next to B&O's Metropolitan Branch - Silver Spring Maryland
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