Wiring question

[daxdog]

I received a DCC Commander set for Christmas and now want to build a table.  After looking at dozens and dozens of layouts, I have come up with a plan close to what I want to do.  There is one trick to it that I am unsure of. 

Here is a simple version of what I am planning on, which I have taken from thortrains.net.  It has a reversing section on it.


Since I am using a DCC setup, should I just have gaps between the two turnouts from the main loop and the turnout inside the spur?  Then should I connect a second terminal/rerailler on the spur to a Bachmann DCC Automatic Reverse Loop Module?

I have not purchased the track or the module to do any of this yet, but I would like a clear picture in my head before I start spending hundreds of dollars on track.

Thanks,

George

[ACY]

Isolate the reversing section from the rest of the layout at which place you would also want to connect your automatic reversing module like you said. Others can probably go into more depth for you.

[Jim Banner]

George,
Your thinking is right on.  Just make sure that you gap all four rails that go from turnout to turnout.

You did not ask for comments on your track plan, but may I offer a couple anyway?  As shown, you would be able to reverse a train only three track sections long.  This would be about one locomotive, a caboose, and 2 cars in between.  If you were to keep the two mainline turnouts where they are but flip them to that the spur runs to the right in your diagram instead of the to the left, then you would be able to turn a much longer train, something like a locomotive, a caboose and 7 or 8 cars in between.  The turnout on the spur would have to become a wye turnout.  A wye turnout is one in which both routes diverge from a straight line, one to the left, one to the right.  I think you would really appreciate this change in the future when you start acquiring a few extra cars and maybe even a second train.

The layout as shown should work well with 4 axle diesels and 40' freight cars but will very likely run into problems with long steam locomotives, passenger cars and long freight cars.  This is because of the four S-curves in the end loops.  S-curves are curves that are curving one way then immediately curve the other way with no straight track in between.  Most railroaders will put a full straight section between curves going in opposite directions to avoid S-curves, but often just 6" is enough.

Over all, it looks like you are on the right track.  [insert groan here]

Jim

[ACY]

A quick and rough sketch in paint of what I think Jim is suggesting...

[Jim Banner]

Yhanks, ACY.  Your sketch is worth a thousand of my words.

Jim

[Joe Satnik]

Why not just do a left crossover then a right crossover in the middle... no need for a wye or tail track.

[Doneldon]

George-

I have to agree with Joe S. I think you will soon get tired of having to back up trains to reverse them, not to mention all that backing may lead to more derailments than you would prefer. Keep the trains running forward as much as possible for the fewest operational hadaches.

Your many s-curves and skinny central section appear to leave  lot of room at the edges of your layout. Unless you have specific plans for doing it this way (perhaps you are running a narrow shelf between the two return loops or you want some double-track mainline) I'd suggest turning this into a loop around the outside of the layout, possibly with a figure eight within so you can still enjoy reversing your trains. That's just me; I fully respect your right to do your layout however it pleases you.

                                                                                                                                                          -- D

[jward]

as an enhancement of what others have suggested, how about an "island" track in the center? it would combine joe's idea of double crossovers, with jim's modification of your original plan.

take jim's idea (as drawn by acy) and add a mirror image of the 3 switches at the right side of the straight track, to the left side. the center double track portion of your plan would become 3 tracks, with switches to the loops on either end. joe's idea of double crossovers would mean that you'd have to have an auto reverse unit on the main line, my modification would mean that any trains reversing direction would have to use the center track. thus that would be where you'd put the autoreverse unit and the main lines could be wired like normal track.

perhaps acy would be so kind as to draw this one out as well? i don't have the capability to easily draw these things......

[daxdog]

Wow!  Thanks for all the responses.  I was not expecting so much.

The layout I am thinking of will be similar to this except I would add another segment going across the top of the plan which would actually be in a tunnel under a mountain.


I showed the simpler one earlier to highlight the reversing section.

Since y'all are so helpful, maybe you can guide me through some of my initial decision-making.  Here is the concept I have for this model RR.  I have a 4' x 12' area where I will construct a table about 30"-36" high.  I am thinking of doing it in three sections.  The far left will be very flat - representing the Memphis area where we live.  The far right section will represent the beach where my grandson's other grandparents live.  The middle will have some hills representing the Smoky Mountains.  I want a loop (or loops) so a train can run continuously if we desire.  I also want some opportunities to do some switching which I would find fun.  Having the ability to reverse directions on the loop would also be cool.  I looked through several books and online plans and this is the closest to giving me what I want (I think).  I am planning on building with Bachmann E-Z Track if that makes a difference.  All ideas will be helpful since I am basically brand new to model railroading.

Thanks again,

George

[jward]

looking at the overall plan, you could eliminate the reversing section easily by eliminating one of the connecting swtiches to the main line. this would greatly simplify your wiring, and you really wouldn't miss out on much because as others have pointed out that short tail track isn't very practical for a reversing section anyway.

overall, the plan includes 4 reverse curves on the ends which are going to cause tyou problems. this is an ongoing theme in thor's layouts. he is evidently not aware of the rule of thumb that you should have a short section of straight track between curves in opposite directions. to correct this design falw, you'd need to add at least 6" of straight track between those curves or redesign them altogether. either option is going to put you over your allotted space.

perhaps you should take a look at the following layout:
https://secure.atlasrr.com/mmMOD1/Images/10035.jpg

this layout will fit your space, has complete instructions on building it available in the book "atlas HO king-size layout book" which can be found in most hobby shops. the layout is called "berkshire valley lines" in the book and is illustrated set in new england, but you could easily change it to represent tenessee farm country. you could also add a couple of industrial sidings to the plan without much trouble.

the plan is designed using atlas track components, but the vast majority of those track components used are the same dimensions as the bachmann ez track, and i'm sure the others are close enough they could be made to work. most importantly, this layout plan has been built, wired and tested. it is known to work, and all the design flaws have been solved.....

[Doneldon]

ddog-

The Bachmann EZ Track is a good product but it's pricey. You might want to look into flex track and switches which are compatible with the flex you choose. Flex track is quite a bit cheaper than EZ Track, it allows you to fudge curves a little or, more important, use transitional curves, and it permits you to choose less bulky track like Code 83 or 70 which look more realistic.
                                                                                                                                       -- D

[OldTimer]

Unless you plan on running your railroad from a seated position or are going it share it with small kids (the grandchild you mentioned?) , I'd suggest you build a little higher.  The closer you can get your trains to eye level and the less of your layout that you can see at one time, the more realistic it will look.  I'm 5'8" and my current project is chest high, about 50".  I can easily reach everything, but my view is a lot less like from the blimp at a football game.  You could get a sturdy stepstool or bench for your grandson to stand on until he "grows into" the layout.
OldTimer

[daxdog]

OldTimer-

I may try to build it a little higher per your suggestion, but I decided on this hight range for two reasons.  1-My grandson is just a toddler right now and 2-the angled ceilings in the man fort won't allow for a much higher table.  The after I get to about 36 inches, the table will have to move closer to the middle of the room, taking away from the floorspace of other needs of the room.

Thanks,

George

[Jim Banner]

The group I model with has built three layouts in the 30 to 32 inch range.  These layouts are on public display and we wanted all age groups to be able to enjoy them.  Many parents hunker down to the eye level of their children so that they can enjoy the layout together.  For those of us past the hunkering age, we provide chairs, benches and other seating.  Our largest layout, a portable G-scale which was designed and built to be taken to train shows, is the lowest at 30 inches.  Working on it was a back breaker until we realized that sitting in a chair made it just the right height for hand laying track, turnouts etc.  Some of the fellows preferred to work standing up.  They soon learned to take off the legs and set each section on a work bench to bring it up to about 38" for working on.  At shows, we have frequently been thanked by parents who have grown weary of lifting their small children at each and every layout.

Bottom line, don't be afraid of building your layout at a child friendly height.  If you want it higher later, you can always extend the legs.

Having said that, my home H0 layout is higher.  The rails vary from 40" to 60" off the floor.  At 40" I can barely work to the middle of a 4' wide table.  At 60" I have to use a step ladder and crawl onto the table.  This layout was designed to be operated with friends.  The 40" portion is ideal but the 60" part, which is exactly at my eye level, is too high and must be operated from a platform to check switch alignments, uncoupling magnets, etc.  When showing this layout to children, they have to stand on chairs or on the stairway going up to the rest of my home.  One trick here is to use kitchen chairs with backs on them and set the chairs with the back toward the layout.  The chair back does two things - it provides something for the child to hold onto and if placed just a little more than a child's arm reach from the train table, it protects the trains.  I have never lost a train or a kid using this method.

I suspect you would be best off with a low table because of the sloped ceiling but have given alternate solutions in case you should ever change your mind.

Jim