expanding thoroughbred set, in trouble!!!

ct03si · January 17, 2011, 08:47:36 PM

newbie,got myself into quite a pickle.
a few days ago i bought a bachmann thoroughbred set for a friends son who is in the hospital, he absolutly loves it but there seems to be an issue..... i got him another locomotive in the style he likes (cheap one made by model power)
they both work but now he wants to run them both on the same track at the same time, ( the small 48x36 oval that came with the set) they are obviously not equally matched locomotives as they run at different speeds, i got an email from his dad today saying that now they dont want to run properly in reverse and it is beginning to smell when he runs both trains.
im assuming that having 2 trains is overloading the track, is there any way to fix this issue, any bigger controller or better power supply? or does he just have to run 1 train at a time?
this stinks i just wanted to make the kid happy and not spend a fortune but now i think i wasted my money on something i wont be able to expand without a large investment.

PLEASE HELP!!!!

ACY · January 17, 2011, 09:47:40 PM

With such a small set you would not have enough room to run 2 non-similarly powered and geared locomotives. If they were identical locomotives then you could double head them, but since they are not, you will need to add a second oval separate from the first and then they can both run on their own set of tracks. You mention it is beginning to smell, this would suggest to me that the locomotives are overheating and that the motors probably were damaged in the process.

A much more costly and time consuming and not worthwhile solution would be buying an E-Z Command and installing decoders in the 2 locomotives, but that will set you back $75 for the DCC system and $30-$40 for decoders depending on the ones you get, plus labor if you don't know how to hardwire decoders.

Also, adding a crossover or 2 #6 turnouts can get costly also and complex and might require a better power source depending on what all you do, but doing this still will not allow both locomotives to be a part of the same train.
Unless you use DCC, and regear/modify one of the locos to match you will not be able to effectively and safely run both locomotives as part of the same train. Unless you make a large investment you will not be able to run both locomotives at the same time on one mainline or two separate or connected ovals.

Also, just a general tip, it is a good idea to clean the track and locomotives on a regular basis, unless you know what your doing and use a few dots of conductive lubricant on the track, to keep things in good running order, but if you add too much or do not clean the track and locomotives first you'll exacerbate the situation and make the problem 2 or 3 times as bad.

ct03si · January 17, 2011, 10:23:05 PM

ok, so what i got out of this is, i can not by any means run 2 trains on the current track and power setup i have.
i am not going to go dcc because of cost.
so im better off just running 1 single train and spending money on track to make it more fun than adding a second train.
there doesnt seem to be any way to add more juice to the current track to run 2 trains on the same line.
am i atleast on the right track with this?

ACY · January 17, 2011, 10:42:43 PM

Quote from: ct03si on January 17, 2011, 10:23:05 PM
ok, so what i got out of this is, i can not by any means run 2 trains on the current track and power setup i have.
i am not going to go dcc because of cost.
so im better off just running 1 single train and spending money on track to make it more fun than adding a second train.
there doesnt seem to be any way to add more juice to the current track to run 2 trains on the same line.
am i atleast on the right track with this?

Not quite, you might be able to run both at the same time if they don't draw too much, but it will probably end up being a bad idea. If you want to run multiple trains on the same mainline without DCC, then you would need to have a larger oval to accommodate to trains and a heftier power source. You would also need to incorporate block wiring and need a power source with two rheostats, to control the 2 trains.
I would either have the kid just run one at a time, or buy enough track to make an oval around or inside the original oval and a second power source and run that train on its own track.

Tylerf · January 17, 2011, 10:48:50 PM

You should really be able to run both locomotives from that dc transformer just fine, two basic locomotives with likely just a lamp and motor each cant overload it unless theres some kind of real drag on the motor making it stall. Even if they are a bit out of time with eachother they should run double headed fine still, ive never speed matched a loco(given i am using digitrax) and still run huge consists. With good couplers they pull eachother to one average speed, now if they go to fast this usually gets the fast one spinning its wheels and "polishing" the track. Im wondering if the smell could be from this very effect, making the trains rip around the track (like most kids do) and thud pushing one to the point where they overheat? Just my experience.

ct03si · January 17, 2011, 10:59:44 PM

just talked with his mom, for now we are gonna just do one train. we will get a nice track expansion set and maybe another simple oval layout to run a second train totally separate later on down the road. that should solve the problem.
thanks for all of the help!

Doneldon · January 18, 2011, 12:49:47 AM

ct-

You might consider a few more cars as a way to make his train more interesting. You can usually score some on ebay for not much or check Model Railroader at the library. There will be ads for online companies who sell rolling stock at favorable prices. Once in a while you don't get to pick the railroad but that shouldn't present a problem. Do make sure that the couplers are compatible; that is, all couplers should be knuckle couplers (look like real couplers) or X2f, also known as horn hook couplers. Hopefully you won't find those as they don't look or work great, but you might have gotten them on the train set.
-- D

ct03si · January 19, 2011, 09:43:33 PM

turns out the set is toast, they tried to run it today, plugged it all in set it all up like usual and nothing worked, i will have to see if it was the train or the control box that went. i think tomorrow i will be taking it back to the hobby shop to see if i can exchange it. this is killing me, this poor kid deserves a toy to play with.

ACY · January 19, 2011, 09:49:19 PM

How old is this kid, if he is 12 or less this may not be the right one for him. Model railroads despite often being considered toys are not toys and should not be considered as such. They require the supervision of a knowledgeable and experienced adult for children to properly enjoy them. The hobby shop likely won't let you return or exchange it if they determine you broke it or caused it to break. A better choice may be a wooden train set depending on his age and if he is physically capable to play with them with his current health. I think at some point when both locos were run together they were damaged, and continuing this damaged them to teh point that they would no longer run.

ct03si · January 19, 2011, 09:57:42 PM

he is 5 but only runs it under his dad's supervision, he is maticulous about setting the train cars on the track properly and coupling them together, i know that he did run both locos together on the track at high speeds for a while tho. im thinking that may burn out the trains. if the control box still works i may try to get a different loco and see if that does the trick

ACY · January 19, 2011, 10:05:13 PM

If he is going to continue running them at high speeds then I would suggest getting him a wooden train set, as the same thing may happen, running locos at full speed all the time often is directly related to something being damaged or no longer operating correctly. You may also need to thoroughly clean the track and wheels.

ct03si · January 19, 2011, 10:21:33 PM

could the control box be damaged by this? or just the trains and track.
what should i use to clean the tracks, i know one of the trains had some trouble running with cars attached to it and spun the wheels on the track, it probably polished them a bit

ACY · January 19, 2011, 10:26:19 PM

Quote from: ct03si on January 19, 2011, 10:21:33 PM
could the control box be damaged by this? or just the trains and track.
what should i use to clean the tracks, i know one of the trains had some trouble running with cars attached to it and spun the wheels on the track, it probably polished them a bit

Probably could have overheated and damaged some internal components. The loco spinning the wheels on the track actually will make the track dirtier than before.

Terry Toenges · January 20, 2011, 01:26:58 PM

It's a kid thing to run them as fast as they can go. I did it, too. If they weren't meant to go that fast, then why doesn't the power pack or the loco have speed restrictions built in?

ACY · January 20, 2011, 01:38:27 PM

Quote from: Terry Toenges on January 20, 2011, 01:26:58 PM
It's a kid thing to run them as fast as they can go. I did it, too. If they weren't meant to go that fast, then why doesn't the power pack or the loco have speed restrictions built in?

There are a few locos like bullet trains that can travel at max speeds not that far off from if they were to be run at max speed on layout (referring to scale speed). Also it is unnecessary work, most adults tend to run trains at prototypical speeds as opposed to running them off the table and straight into the ground. If a loco goes flying off the table then that should tell you that you are running it too fast. If they were meant to go that fast then why do they tend to fall to their demise when going that fast or derail and take out all of your scenery???

News:

expanding thoroughbred set, in trouble!!!