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Author Topic: New Annie 4-6-0...where to start??  (Read 7876 times)
fatbob

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« on: August 01, 2011, 12:22:40 AM »

Hi to everyone.  I'm probably your biggest nightmare...an old geezer with a new toy.  I just recently purchased an Annie 4-6-0 (Denver and Rio Grande - number 81097) on ebay.  I'm 66 years old and this is my first electric train.  At this point I just want to have an old steam locomotive running around the top of the walls in my shop (old barn).  I wanted to get the new Plainsman set, but they keep delaying the release.  Since my new toy only includes the loco and tender, I need a caboose, boxcar/cattle car, and passenger car, not to mention a  transformer/speed control.  I guess my initial questions are:
1.  The loco is "narrow gauge".  Do I have to be careful what kind of rolling stock I buy?
2.  The same holds true when buying track.  Is all Bachmann track equal or do I have to get "narrow gauge"?
3.  What kind of transformer/speed control do I need for one loco with no more than four cars traveling relatively slowly around and around on about 100 feet of track?
4.  Since the loco is "Denver & Rio Grande", I'd like the cars to be the same.  Where might I go for decals/transfers for D&RG?
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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 01:00:09 AM »

Most all "G" scale locomotives like yours run on the same size track 45mm, you may consider using a more durable track for your shelf layout Brass or stainless steel. it cost more but it will be money well spent.

EBay is a great place to buy rolling stockand other items, to keep it simple stick to Bachmann Big Hauler Rolling stock, it goes with your loco, others will work and look good too but I'd stick with Bachmann to start.

You will get a lot of help here others will give you better advise then me.

And don't worry all the info that seems overwhelming at first  will soon be old news.

One other thing I will mention is to leave enough room between the track and the wall to add building fronts and enough room to clear the over hang of the train and cars at the corners. I built a shelf layout for my kids then had too move the track to make room for back ground scenery.

NM-Jeff
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ThinkerT

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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 02:49:26 AM »

Quote
1.  The loco is "narrow gauge".  Do I have to be careful what kind of rolling stock I buy?
 

Bachmann 'Spectrum' is 1:20, meaning it is larger than the norm. 'Big Hauler' loco's and rolling stock tend to be a bit smaller.

Quote
2.  The same holds true when buying track.  Is all Bachmann track equal or do I have to get "narrow gauge"?

45 millimeter track is the standard.  I would very strongly recommend you go with something other than Bachmann track; it is suitable for indoors, but is also flimsey and gets dirty in a hurry which impairs the electrical connections.  Outdoors it will rust away pretty quickly. 

Most folks go with Aristocraft or LGB track, which are fully compatable with each other.  These tracks are made out of solid brass; aristocraft track connects to each other with very tiny screws (found in the bottom of the ties).

If you have the room, the folks here and elsewhere will recommend you go with wider radius track; Bachmann track has a 2 foot radius/4 foot diameter.  This is called R1 track, and is the norm for starter sets of all the major manufacturers.  R2 track has a 5 foot diameter, while R3 is 8 foot diameter.  R3 track and up can get real spendy in a hurry.  Bachmann makes only R1 track.  Most switches, including all those made by Bachmann, are R1; so far as I know only a single minor manufacturer makes R2 switches.  R3 and up switches are dang expensive.


Quote
3.  What kind of transformer/speed control do I need for one loco with no more than four cars traveling relatively slowly around and around on about 100 feet of track?

The standard Bachmann silver throttle with the white dial in the center would work fine.  However, the Bachmann track connectors are not the greatest; you might want to see about tracking down some LGB connectors, and doing a splice job.  For 100 feet of track, you might want to have a second set of wires connecting to the track at the opposite side of the layout, but for what you intend, the Bachmann power unit would work fine.

Quote
4.  Since the loco is "Denver & Rio Grande", I'd like the cars to be the same.  Where might I go for decals/transfers for D&RG?

I would suggest hunting around on EBAY a bit more.  Lots and lots of D&RG stuff there, some Bachmann, some by other companies.  IF you do pick up non-Bachmann rolling stock, you will probably end up having to standardize the couplers - go with all Bachmann or kadees or some such. 

There is one person (can't remember his name right off or if he posts here) that does do pretty good decal work.
 
 
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2011, 04:16:37 AM »

I suggest you start out with Bachmann Loco's & Rolling Stock.
  Here is a list of a lot of(but not complete) what they put out over the years that will go well with your loco.
You should have no problem finding a lot of these items on Ebay or at train shows.

81097   D&RG   12   2000   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Denver & Rio Grande Ver 5
81398   D&RG   87   2000   ~ Loco   4-4-0, Denver & Rio Grande
81498   D&RG   29   2000   ~ Loco   2-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande
89091   D&RG   220   2000   P-Coach   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
89092   D&RG   122   2000   P Combine   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
89093   D&RG   112   2000   P Baggage   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
89094   D&RG   RICO   2000   P-Obs   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
90022   D&RG    Set   1994   ^ Set   Gold Rush
97118   D&RG    122   1994   P Combine   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
97318   D&RG    Rico   1994   P-Obs   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
97418   D&RG    112   1995   P Baggage   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
81088   D&RGW   178   2005   ~ Loco   4-6-0, 10th aniv, Denver & Rio Grande Western
89791   D&RGW   None   2005   P-Coach   Denver & Rio Grande Western   Yellow  
89792   D&RGW   202   2005   P Combine   Denver & Rio Grande Western   Yellow  
89793   D&RGW   None   2005   P Baggage   Denver & Rio Grande Western   Yellow  
89794   D&RGW   "Salida"   2005   P-Obs   Denver & Rio Grande Western   Yellow  
90025   D&RGW   Set   1995   ^ Set   Silverton Flyer
90032   D&RGW   Set   1999   ^ Set   D&RGW Bumble Bee
90034   D&RGW   Set   1999   ^ Set   Rocky Mountain Express
91218   D&RGW   14   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande
91218   D&RGW   177   1995   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande
91218   D&RGW   12?   1994   ~ Loco   4-6-0, Denver & Rio Grande
91602   D&RGW   178   2011   ~ Loco   4-6-0 Annie  Denver & Rio Grande Western
93118   D&RGW   O506   1995   Caboose4   4 whl, D&RGW
93148   D&RGW   ?   2011   Caboose4   4 whl, Denver & Rio Grande Western
93248   D&RGW   71   1994   Refrigerator   Denver & Rio Grande
93318   D&RGW   3527   2003   Box Car   Denver & Rio Grande
93348   D&RGW   3527   1994   Box Car   Denver & Rio Grande
93748   D&RGW   1638   1989   Gondola   Denver & Rio Grande
93818   D&RGW   505   1996   Caboose   8 whl, D&RGW
97218   D&RGW   330   1995   P-Coach   Denver & Rio Grande    Maroon
98118   D&RGW   342   1991   Stock Car   Denver & Rio Grande

Enjoy your new loco it is a beauty!!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 04:19:57 AM by Loco Bill Canelos » Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
fatbob

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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2011, 09:15:29 AM »

Wow..just one day and already lots and lots of valuable info.  Many thanks and please keep it coming. Maybe we can disprove the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks".  I'm looking forward to sitting in my shop working on my cars while Annie steams around and around overhead.  Thanks again...Bob
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cagnurse

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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2011, 09:22:48 AM »

I recently inherited an Bachmann East Broad Top 4-6-0 G scale train #10. It does not look new, how would I know if this is new "Annie" or an earlier model? The set comes with the locomotive, coal car and 2 passenger cars as well as the track. I'm considering selling the set and want to be sure what I am selling.
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on30gn15


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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2011, 01:02:22 PM »

Quote
1.  The loco is "narrow gauge".  Do I have to be careful what kind of rolling stock I buy?
 

Bachmann 'Spectrum' is 1:20, meaning it is larger than the norm. 'Big Hauler' loco's and rolling stock tend to be a bit smaller.

This is how we do it.
But keep in mind that this comes from minds which have been doing models and miniatures and are long accustomed to thinking in certain ways.

What Kathy and I did was to call the Big Hauler locos and passenger cars the, slightly smaller than 1/20, scale of 1/24 scale, same as a lot of plastic car models and diecast cars. And there is a lot of dollhouse stuff for 1/2 inch to the foot scale.
And people too!

I guess one way to put it is that freight cars would look okay when sized around 15in to 18in or so long, around 6in high, and 4 and 1/2 inches wide.

Passenger cars would need to look like they would be comfortable for people right at 3 inches tall.

With that 1/24 scaling the track scales out to represent narrow gauge track of 3ft6in gauge, aka 42 inch gauge, aka metric 1066mm gauge, which is used in the real world in South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan, Philippines, an old electric railway in the US, the Denver and Intermountain, and who knows where else.

So, if you want ideas from prototypes to fit a "to scale" track, there are plenty of inspirations all over the planet.

In the real world it is pretty much a case of you name it and someone has now or did have one or did do that somewhere at some point in history.
Or, as experienced modelers say, "There's a prototype for everything."

Case in point, "No one would ever have both a cupola and bay windows on a caboose, that's just silly."
You know that saying about never say never ...
  Shocked http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2448322



« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 01:04:33 PM by on30gn15 » Logged

When all esle fials, go run trains
Screw the Rivets, I'm building for Atmosphere!
later, Forrest
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2011, 03:28:49 PM »

cagnurse, If you have the set in the original box,  Your set 90085 is an old set from 1996:

90085*   EBT   East Broad Top   1996   Ltd Run   Pass    10   Ver3    Coach EBT #10   Obs EBT #20 "ORBISONIA"

The set is one of 3000 made and part of the "Golden Classics Series" out in 1996.  It was never in the catalog and to date has never been rerun.

The locomotive #10 in the set has the version 3 chassis which was a very poor runner.    Sets like this sell on Ebay anywhere from a low of $45 up to about $ 140 depending on condition and completness.

In 2002 Bachmann introduced the same Loco #10 as an Anniversay Edition.  Youu can tell it by turniong it upside down and checking to see if there is a plastic lubrication port which can be removed to grease the gears.

In 2003 Bachmann reissued the passenger cars with track powered lighting and metal handrails, these were never sold in the sets.  The passenger cars in you set have battery powered lighting and cheap plastic handrails.

If you sell the set the fact that the EBT is a more popular seller might get you a little more cash especially if the set is unused complete and in the original box.

Best bet is put it on Ebay and see what happens!!

Good luck
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
fatbob

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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 01:28:03 AM »

Okay, a few more questions.  Since the tender has "Denver & Rio Grande" markings, would like to try to continue in that vein.  I purchased a generic caboose and a combination baggage/passenger car.  Would those be any specific color for D&RG?  Also, I'll have to try to find some decals/transfers for both cars.  Finally, does anyone know the whole story about D&RG and D&RGW, etc??  Are they interchangeable or were they two distinct lines/periods??

thanks/bob.
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Kevin Strong


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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 02:23:10 AM »

The D&RG was the precursor to the D&RGW. I don't know offhand when they added the "Western" to the name. There's tons of stuff on the web about the D&RGW, as it's probably the most modeled narrow gauge railroad in the world. There's also two books by John Norwood on the D&RGW that have a general history of the railroad. Just Google D&RGW and start reading. Fascinating stuff, though I'm a bit more partial to the eastern narrow gauge lines.

As for decals or dry transfers, you're probably going to have to get them custom made at this point. No one makes them commercially anymore, though you can occasionally find dealers at shows who may have a set or two. Stan Cedarleaf and Jeff Damerst (shawmut car shops) both do custom decals for large scale. I'm pretty sure both have D&RGW artwork.

As for "being careful" about what rolling stock you buy, the correct answer is no, you don't have to. But if you're out to build a credible D&RGW roster of the same 1:22.5 scale, then you'll want to stick with Bachmann's "Big Hauler" line of cars, and perhaps Aristo's "Aristo-Craft Classics" line as well.

Later,

K
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fatbob

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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 08:00:22 AM »

Thanks Kevin...will do some more research...Bob
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ThinkerT

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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2011, 11:19:07 PM »

Fatbob...

a couple things you might want to take into account about your loco.

First, the front truck is too light - way too light.  They have a tendency to derail over even otherwise minor track issues (like switches).  Best keep the switches on your pike to a minimum.  Some folks do a partial fix for this by putting extra weights on that front truck.

Second, the front coupler is way too high and has way too limited motion to be of any use, switching wise.
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gunrunner

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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2011, 12:42:28 AM »

bachman big haulers and aristo classics (deltron) are basically the same
i have big haulers eight wheel cabooses (cabeese ? ?)
aristo classic cabeese
width, roof and cupola height match
also have box cars
dimensions are w/in sixteenth of inch w/other
over years have snagged mine at garage sales on the cheep
now since both bachman and aristo are putting their money elsewhere
you'll be doing same
hey, it's an adventure
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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2011, 01:14:08 AM »

It's a great feeling when you walk up to a garage sale and see big box with a train on it. Even better when they say "We used it one Christmas" and you can see by the condition they are telling the truth.

And the best part is they want ten bucks for it.

And the better.... but I feel guilty as I carry it away part? offering them 5 bucks and they say ok.  seldom happens but it is great when it does...

NM-Jeff
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ryeguyisme

Heavy Mountain Steam


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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2011, 05:34:20 PM »

It's a great feeling when you walk up to a garage sale and see big box with a train on it. Even better when they say "We used it one Christmas" and you can see by the condition they are telling the truth.

And the best part is they want ten bucks for it.

And the better.... but I feel guilty as I carry it away part? offering them 5 bucks and they say ok.  seldom happens but it is great when it does...

NM-Jeff


I've bought whole model railroads worth thousands, for $100-200, to me some of it can be used towards my own projects, other times it helps pay the bill and buy what I don't have. Do I feel guilty? Yes in some ways I have felt guilty about even accepting donations simply because I view model railroads as dreams and when someone sells one off or gives it/throws it away, it kinda hits the heart a bit in a sad way. I'm sure there's a thousand dollar brass engine mangled up in a dump somewhere but I know sometimes that's fate


the best thing you can do is continue to use what you have/find, and help the hobby grow like i have with my lionel christmas layout I setup at our local park for kids. I gotta say the smiles and ideas that may have been born in the process is payment enough for the hard work I've put in volunteering my collection
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 05:36:23 PM by ryeguyisme » Logged

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