Harriman 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 data needed!

[Orsonroy]

OK guys, time to put our money where our mouths are...

I'm willing to bombard Bachmann with a "real" request for Harriman steam, specifically the Pacific and Mike, two engines that we modelers would like to see and which would fill out their rosters nicely. I've helped several manufacturers in the past (including Bachmann) and am more than willing to help them out now.

Sending a manufacturer a "real" request for a model involves more than a short email asking for a specific model. While those types of emails DO help the effprt greatly, manufacturers generally need more. With the tight budgets and millions of other things that manufacturers need to do on a daily basis, intense research on any one specific prototype (or family of prototypes) is LOW on the priority list. If we were to step up to the plate and hand Bachmann a single, unified document, full of facts, figures, photos, plans and histories, the chances are MUCH better that we'll eventually see what we want to see out of them.

But there's a problem. While the USRA engines have been written about at length, the Harriman -Standard plans have been virtually ignored by the hobby, at least in any sort of cohesive, unified way (there's no "Harriman steam engines" book, for example, while there are a few for the USRA steamers).  There's a rumor floating around that one's in the works, but it may be years before we actually see it.

I've got LOTS of data on the IC versions of the Harriman steamers, but that's all. So what I need is data, or at least information on where to FIND data. Initial rosters are the best, especially road numbers, since I'll be able to start backtracking from there. Any published plans or the information on where to find those plans will greatly help too.

Tracking down what's a Harriman engine and what's not will be an "interesting" task, to say the least. To that end, please only send data on what you KNOW to be a Harriman-design engine; too many "Well, it sorta LOOKS like a Harriman" comments will only confuse the issue.

I'm asking that you send ME the data, and not Bachmann, since I'll be able to sift through the data and compile it into a single, unified document that will be quick and easy for Bachmann to look through, giving the project a better chance at realization.  Some of you may have seen a similar request for data of mine float through the NYC world last month, looking for H-5 Mike data: that project is almost ready to send out (and I'm thinking about sending it to Bachmann, so you'd better be snappy with data before I blow it with a different engine!)

Please feel free to post data here, or to send it to rtbsvrr69@yahoo.com. I'll let everyone know when/if I have enough to send to Bachmann, and will make the package available to anyone who's helped fill in the blanks.

Thanks, and here's hoping!

[andrechapelon]

Ray, are we talking Harriman lights, heavies or both?

Both the UP and SP had "light" Harriman Mikes and Pacifics, although in the case of the Mikes, I believe the boilers were identical. The light Mikes had 57" drivers vs. 63 for the Heavies.

Andre

[Orsonroy]

Ray, are we talking Harriman lights, heavies or both?

Both the UP and SP had "light" Harriman Mikes and Pacifics, although in the case of the Mikes, I believe the boilers were identical. The light Mikes had 57" drivers vs. 63 for the Heavies.

Andre

See? Right there you've provided me with someting useful: I didn't even know that there was a light and heavy!

All original IC Mikes had 63" drivers, so I'd assume that they were the heavies, which is what I, as an IC guy, am more interested in.

[SteamGene]

Google "Harriman" and you get more about BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID than you do about the engines of the trains they robbed.
Gene

[andrechapelon]

With respect to light Pacifics, here's a pic of UP #3203 taken in Oaks Park in Portland in 1981. Incidentally, this engine in this configuration is very close to an SP P-5. IIRC, when the 3203 was built, it was equipped with Stephenson valve gear.



And since Yesterday Depot sells pictures, here's a link to a pic of UP 3114, one of the Harriman heavy Pacifics.

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/UP3114.JPG

Andre

[Yukonsam]

Hi everybody
New man on the board and SP fan for 30+ years, and following the discussions on the Bachmann board for some time.

Yes, we need Harriman Standard locomotives.

I will recommend Diebert & Strapac´s book "SP Steam Locomotive Compendium" for a start on Harriman Common Standard locomotives (or any other SP steamer). (Shade Tree Books 1987, ISBN : 0-930742-12-5).

Another valuable source is Guy L. Dunscomb´s classic "A century of Southern Pacific Steam Locomotives" published by the author. My book is without  ISBN identification, it´s that old, but the Library of Congress Card is No. 63-14308.

Hope this might help.

Regards, Yukonsam

[Orsonroy]

Thanks for the leads guys. The books will especially come in handy as a preliminary resource.

Gene: it's worse than that. I've spent hours pouring through the Google results for Harriman, and the best stuff I've found to date are vague third-party references to "Harriman" engines on the steamlocomotive.com site. There's NOTHING out there about these engines, and that's pretty depressing!

[Bojangle]

Ray:
Lots of information on the net, search needs to be specific, but concentrate on the math, physics, engineering of locomotives.   Here are a couple of links,  only data but may be helpful.

http://orion.math.iastate.edu/jdhsmith/term/slushals.htm
http://orion.math.iastate.edu/jdhsmith/term/slusic.htm

Steam locomotives worldwide, by nation and railroad.
http://orion.math.iastate.edu/jdhsmith/term/slindex.htm

This one by a retired Illinois Professor.  (Revised this month, but has some dead links)
http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/railroad.htm

Colorado Railroad Museum.  More specific for my area, but may help. Click the IJK link.
http://www.crrm.org/train_books-a-f.html

Some of these compilations are by college students, who do extensive research for their term papers.  These papers often include many references to document the research including other  papers, books and sites by retired Professors.  You might try contacting the University directly or check their archives, usually in .ftp format. Universities have "back doors" for the students, that's where all the "goodies" are stored.

Bo

[Hoople]

What about a harriman 2-8-0 if there is such a thing? I'd like two. I want a nice southern pacific consolidation.

[Yukonsam]

Yes, Hoople, there were such nice consolidations on the SP. Classes C-8,   C-9 and  C-10 were built to Harriman Standards.

Regards, Yukonsam

[Hoople]

Well then! Let's start getting info on those too!

[Pacific Northern]

Is this a Harriman style 2-8-0?
-
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sp/sp-s2724.jpg

[Yukonsam]

drhone :
Yes, this is a class C-8 built by Baldwin in 1904.
The builders plate also identifies the locomotive as a Harriman engine, as oval plates were specified as standard.

Regards, Yukonsam

[Hoople]

And another suggestion, a Harriman 0-6-0. I want some UP and SP steam switchers, but there isn't any that I know of.