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Author Topic: Why the scale difference?  (Read 5053 times)
Woodwrkr

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« on: January 12, 2012, 08:06:21 PM »

The Big Hauler products seem to be described as 1:22.5 scale, where the Spectrum line is billed as 1:20.3.  Is there a real reason for this?  Both products appear to be meant to depict 3 foot narrow gauge railroad lines, which when modeled in 45 mm track scale to 1:20.3.  The 1:22.5 scale with 45 mm track is a gauge of just under 40 inches. 

Is there a reason for this other than to create a distinction between product lines?

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az2rail


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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 09:37:21 PM »

1:20.3 is accually "F" scale narrow gauge. It gets classified as "G" because it uses g gauge track. And someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe that 1.22.5 is european 1 meter.

Bruce
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 09:44:37 PM by az2rail » Logged

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Tony Walsham

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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 10:25:26 PM »

For many years the only Large Scale equipment that was available came from LGB.  They chose 1:22.5 scale so that 45 mm gauge represented 1 metre for the mostly European stuff they made.  When LGB decided to enter USA prototype they kept the scale at the inaccurate 1:22.5.
Then Bachmann entered the Large scale market.  So that the models were about the same size as those made by LGB and looked compatible, Bachmann also used 1:22.5. Even the first Bachmann Spectrum model (of the L & B LYNN) was also 1:22.5 scale.
Later Bachmann saw the light and embraced the more correct 1:20.3 scale for models of 3 foot gauge prototypes.
The two scales have been marketed side by side ever since.
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Tony Walsham
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Woodwrkr

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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 08:05:10 PM »

Thanks for your answer...

A scale of 1:22.4 would seem a more logical choice to accurately model 1 meter gauge, but then, oh well.  So, Bachmann switched from 1:22.5 to 1:20.3 scale sometime after entering the large scale market.  I'm thinking that since the Big Hauler series is not actually modeling any specific prototype, that it would probably be acceptable to refer to it as either scale, depending on individual preference or bias.  In other words, a difference of a few scale inches wouldn't be significant; as a figure 3-1/4" tall would represent a person of 5'6" in one scale and 6'1" in the other; or a 2" diameter drive wheel would vary from 41" to 45" between the scales.   

Is this logical, or does Bachmann actually design each product line to a different scale?
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JerryB

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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 09:11:56 PM »

Thanks for your answer...

A scale of 1:22.4 would seem a more logical choice to accurately model 1 meter gauge, but then, oh well.

I'm not certain how you get 1:22.4. 1 meter is 1000millimeters. Dividing the prototype track gauge of 1000mm by the model track gauge of 45mm gives a ratio of 1:22.22.

Quote
So, Bachmann switched from 1:22.5 to 1:20.3 scale sometime after entering the large scale market.  I'm thinking that since the Big Hauler series is not actually modeling any specific prototype, that it would probably be acceptable to refer to it as either scale, depending on individual preference or bias.  In other words, a difference of a few scale inches wouldn't be significant; as a figure 3-1/4" tall would represent a person of 5'6" in one scale and 6'1" in the other; or a 2" diameter drive wheel would vary from 41" to 45" between the scales.  

Is this logical, or does Bachmann actually design each product line to a different scale?

Bachmann and the other suppliers of 1:20.32 (the accurate ratio for F scale) models design to that exact scale, not something that is over 11% too small as in 1:22.5 scale. That accuracy is one of the prime factors separating toy trains from accurate scale models. If something is 6'1" long, scale modelers don't want it to be 5'6" long on the model.

As an example, locomotive cabs are generally rather tight in terms of headroom. A 1:22.5 scale locomotive cab that would barely accommodate an engineer who was 6' tall in 1:22 scale would require that a 1:20 scale engineer either stoop down or have his legs cut off to comfortably fit. Not satisfactory for accurate scale modeling.

Same with track: The most common U.S. narrow gauge trains were 36" gauge. They were not ~40" gauge (if you assume a scale ratio of 1:22.5) or 39" gauge (if you assume a scale ratio of 1:22.2).

Of course your railroad is your railroad, and you are always welcome to set your own personal standards. That is one the things that makes this hobby so interesting!

Happy (Scale Model) RRing,

Jerry
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 05:26:46 AM by JerryB » Logged

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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 11:52:17 PM »

Jerry hit it right on the head, do what you feel works for you.   As one of the weird Shocked ones, my Bachmann 1:22.5 loco's and rolling stock are mixed with my 1:20.3 loco's all supposedly representing "narrow" gauge, but my 1905 era Missouri Western railroad is a standard gauge line based on the CB&Q line that ran through my town Roll Eyes.  In all the years operating it and showing it, and even being a National Convention participant layout, I have only gotten raves and great compliments Cool.  Not only that but I use 1:24 scale autos and trucks, and buildings some modeled after buildings that still exist today in town.  Figures...... well I have such a mix of scales it would make a rivet counter cry Cry, but when placed well it seems to work out just fine Smiley.   

If it looks right to you then enjoy it and have fun!!  I have never visited a model railroad I didn't learn something good from and that is what makes the hobby great!!!

Cheers
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
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Woodwrkr

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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 01:08:21 AM »

Thanks guys,

I believe I found my answer in Loco Bill's response:  He says Bachmann does build both 1:22.5 and 1:20.3 scale.  That was my question!

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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 03:48:06 PM »

Hi,
One the distinctions between product line Quality and details is whether it is "Spectrum" which is bachmanns top shelf Items.

Also 1:20. tends to have more detail then 1:22. in Bachmanns case, but is not an absolute rule but in general is true.

In recent years they have moved the bar up on all their products, some items that would be considered  "Spectrum" are now Standard and the "Spectrum" line has gotten even better.

I find all of Bachmann products to be great, especially when you consider the affordability compared to other manufacturers Lines vs. Price.

NM-JEff
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 04:21:30 PM by NarrowMinded » Logged
scottychaos


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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 12:40:20 PM »

I'm thinking that since the Big Hauler series is not actually modeling any specific prototype, that it would probably be acceptable to refer to it as either scale, depending on individual preference or bias.  In other words, a difference of a few scale inches wouldn't be significant; as a figure 3-1/4" tall would represent a person of 5'6" in one scale and 6'1" in the other; or a 2" diameter drive wheel would vary from 41" to 45" between the scales.   

Is this logical, or does Bachmann actually design each product line to a different scale?

Except there is a real prototype for the Big Hauler 4-6-0:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HaltahrNV6b99OOP1pc9vQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmSRWLNQRyM

And technically, since Tweetsie #12 is a 3-foot gauge locomotive, an accurate model of her should be built to 1/20.3 scale, not 1/22.5..but the reasons for 1/22.5 have already been explained..

Scot
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joeaug1025

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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 08:29:04 PM »

I'm new to this site but thought I would throw my 2 cents into this mess.  The difference in scale is "Fine Scale" F is and G is not for equipment operating on 45mm track. And there are some out there who have taken up modeling F Scale Standard Gage on 70.64mm track.  Also, the Spectrum line is not the only 1:20.3 models from Bachmann, some of the "Big Haulers" are also 1:20.3 with less detail, and as far as autos and trucks I have found that commercially available 1:18 scale vehicles look best to scale.
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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 12:22:16 AM »

Quote
[Also 1:20. tends to have more detail then 1:22. in Bachmanns case, but is not an absolute rule but in general is true.In recent years they have moved the bar up on all their products, some items that would be considered  "Spectrum" are now Standard and the "Spectrum" line has gotten even better.

/quote]

« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 12:27:22 AM by NarrowMinded » Logged
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 10:25:20 AM »

Joe is correct on the point that the Big Hauler line (also called the "Standard" Line by Bachamnn) does have 1:20.3 models.  The Davenport, The new Lyn, and the short Boxcars, Gons, and Flats would be examples.
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
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Kevin Strong


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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 05:14:18 PM »

... the short Boxcars, Gons, and Flats would be examples.

Note that while the short boxcar, etc. are called "1:20.3," they are generic models that were just drawn up on paper to be 12" long (20' in 1:20), not models of any existing prototypes actually modeled in 1:20.3. Think of them more in line with Aristo's "shorty" line of rolling stock--freelance models designed to a specific overall size, whose resemblance to any known prototype (living or dead) is purely coincidence.

Later,

K
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