ONLINE
STORE
"ASK THE BACH MAN"
FORUM
PARTS, SERVICE,
& INFORMATION
CATALOGS AND
BROCHURES

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 20, 2019, 11:07:39 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Check out the photo gallery link above or >click here< to see photos of recently announced products!
+  Bachmann Message Board
|-+  Discussion Boards
| |-+  General Discussion
| | |-+  Steam locomotives: Coal burners V.S. Oil burners
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Print
Author Topic: Steam locomotives: Coal burners V.S. Oil burners  (Read 19331 times)
electrical whiz kid

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2012, 08:17:00 PM »

Yeah; it was/is a two-edged sword, almost prohibitively expensive but for a few of the lines, like you say, who could justify it. 
I cannot speak with any qualification on the Pennsy, but I am a New Haven fan.  A good example of the extreme expense is the recent act of stringing a clothesline from New Haven to Boston! To me, it was and is a mystery as to why they waited so long, other than government subsidies.  Electrification of the "West End" (New Haven to Manhatten) was, of course, due to an ordinance of New York city banning steam locomotives from the proper.   The New Haven WAS the premier railroad back in the day; rider patronage demanded a first-class road, so it worked; but it even worked better on the carfloat scene.  Those EF-3s could pull almost 5,000HP-and 9600 HP on a startup down the pans!  It is funny when you think of it:  The "Yellowjacket", as the EF-3 was called, could easily pull 125-car trains (Max on the viaduct) from Bay Ridge to North Cedar Hill!  But, more interesting was the wheel arrangement; 4-6-6-4-just like the Challenger, and just as much HP too!
RIch 
Logged
Johnson Bar Jeff

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2012, 09:45:32 AM »

I imagine it made a big difference on the Pennsy once the Corridor was electrified and they no longer had to change engines at Manhattan Transfer to take the trains into Penn Station.

I believe I remember reading somewhere that the legal stuff necessary for building the Hudson River tunnel and Penn Station prohibited steam locomotives (and possibly also wooden passenger cars?) from the tunnel.
Logged
phillyreading

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2012, 03:50:18 PM »

The Pennsy system was an older system as far as electric power goes, 25 hertz at 12,500 volts, if I remember right, catenary system.

Also prohibited was steam in the NYC Grand Central station's underground system.
Wooden passenger cars were the only type for a number of years before the subway cars. The thing about wooden passenger cars is that they had a wood heater for use in the winter and that may have been why they were restricted from any tunnels.

Lee F.
Logged
Johnson Bar Jeff

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 04:12:52 PM »

Also prohibited was steam in the NYC Grand Central station's underground system.
Wooden passenger cars were the only type for a number of years before the subway cars. The thing about wooden passenger cars is that they had a wood heater for use in the winter and that may have been why they were restricted from any tunnels.

Lee F.

I think it had to do with a perceived fire danger with wooden passenger cars, in case of accident.
Logged
ebtnut

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2012, 04:54:39 PM »

Fire danger as well as overall safety.  Wooden cars were subject to "telescoping" in a severe wreck, i.e., the carbodies were crushed lengthwise.  All-steel cars were more durable.  I'm not sure off-hand when steam heat began replacing coal-fired stoves, but it may have been in that same time frame.  Steam heat remained the norm into the early Amtrak era, until they could phase out all the inheirited rollling stock and replace it with HEP power in new cars.  I think even most if not all of the PRR and New Haven passenger stock (excluding the MU's) used steam because the cars needed to be used system-wide. 
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2012, 05:03:51 PM »

Also prohibited was steam in the NYC Grand Central station's underground system.
Wooden passenger cars were the only type for a number of years before the subway cars. The thing about wooden passenger cars is that they had a wood heater for use in the winter and that may have been why they were restricted from any tunnels.

Lee F.

I think it had to do with a perceived fire danger with wooden passenger cars, in case of accident.

This is more than perceived. Much more than just wood cars. Smoke from steam locos was the big issue.

Yes, Wikipedia can be suspect for accuracy at times but I think this is right on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaufman_Act

Many people at the time where afraid of riding in steel cars during an electrical storm so many of the first cars where steel and made to look like the ornate wood cars of that time. I did read some links where some were wood cars sheathed in steel until all steel cars came along. This was not an overnight change.

Rich
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2012, 05:08:26 PM »

This is from a lnk in a search. Nothing to do with smoke or a stove.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbone_Street_Wreck

Rich
Logged
richg
Guest
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2012, 05:19:31 PM »

This seems to be what led to the banning of wood cars, completely.

1921 wreck

In Bryn Athyn's railroad history, a devastating accident took place in 1921 in PA. Two steam trains collided head-on. The boilers burst, sending red hot coals flying back and raining down on the wooden passenger cars of the two trains. As a result, over 20 people were killed, due in part to the inability of rescue workers to access the trains, given that they were wedged between two large rocks. The incident led to the ban on wooden rail cars in order to prevent future disasters of a similar occurrence.

You can always do a search for wood passenger cars banned if you want more info. There is plenty out there.

The previous links might have been primarily for wood cars in tunnels.

Rich
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!