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Author Topic: Frequency for Big Hauler battery powered 4-6-0  (Read 10913 times)
Wade Colyer

Lewistown,PA


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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2012, 09:39:23 AM »

Hi:

     _____
     | o | ----------- Gray        Gray & Brown go to Red wire on battery
     | o | ----------- Brown
     | o | ----------- Blue
     | o | ----------- Black       Black & Blue go to Black wire on battery
     _____

   End View of female plug with alignment tabs
     
  It looks alot like a plug that would be on a computer motherboard. Maybe the local computer geek could help you. Anyone who sells RC stuff would have the battery connection if you don't have one already. Good Luck.

Wade
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2012, 09:59:24 AM »

Thanks Wade for the good info,  The transmitters do seem to show up on Ebay fairly frequently.  I had no trouble running the RC Big Hauler using a 12 volt NiCad pack.  I ruined the wheels first. 

I think you will be very happy with the latest Anniversary 4-6-0. 
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
seigezapf

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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2012, 10:19:10 AM »

Thanks for the heads-up Wade.  I sent the seller a message to ask if he might also have the R/C cable.  You never know.

Jerry, I wonder if the folks who tried the 27MHz stick transmitters tried all of the six channels.  Of course I have no idea if the Bachmann receiver is set to any of those channels, but since I have an old tx and all 6 of the crystals, I thought I would try it out.  It doesn't sound promising, but I will try it out and report back.

Thank you for the information on the R/C systems.  I'll check out G Scale Graphics.

As for the scale issue, no I am not sure.  While the difference between one meter and one yard may not be the most important to me, there sure are a lot of beautiful locomotives in the 1:20.3 scale.  The cost is a bit daunting, but I'm not looking at developing a big empire - if I went that direction,  a Consolidation for sure and maybe a Shay (and in my dreams a K27).  Right now I am planning as much "garden" as "railroad" in my garden railroad and have not started laying outdoor track.  Much to do with landscape work and building a pond and stream.  

I have purchased some R1 (24" radius) curve track, which I don't think I would be able to use with many locomotives, especially the larger 1:20.3 ones.  So I think I need to bite the bullet on that and make sure my track will handle wherever I end up equipment-wise.  

Y'all have been very helpful.  I appreciate all of the really good information you have given to me in a short period of time.

Craig

UPDATE:  And thank you Wade for the wiring information.  When I Googled 4-pin connector I did see a bunch that were used for connecting disk drives, so I think you are right about a computer connection.  Interesting if  Bachmann in the 90's would have used computer parts.

Loco Bill, I do have a metal-wheel "donor" if it turns out I can get the R/C Big Hauler to work.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 10:30:00 AM by seigezapf » Logged
seigezapf

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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 11:49:25 AM »

Well I might be able to try this experiment.  I found an old computer disk drive and pulled the cable from it.  One connector was 4-pin.  It took a little Dremel work to remove some of the alignment tabs, but now it fits into the receptacle in the locomotive.  

I soldered a Dean's plug on the other end, splitting the wires according to Wade's diagram.  I could not, however, figure out how the plug I have would orient to Wade's, so I may have things reversed pos to neg.  I don't think that should matter as long as there isn't a short.  It's 50/50.  As I have it now POS is going to the two right pins and NEG to the two left pins as you look at it from the rear of the loco.  If you see this Wade and I have it wrong, let me know.  Otherwise it will be trial by fire here in a few minutes.

Anyway, I'm charging a 7-cell 8.4 volt stick battery.  As soon as it is charged I'll see if I can get power.  Standing by are a 27MHz Tx and all 6 crystals.
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2012, 12:54:50 PM »

Since you have not laid or hopefully bought too much R1 curved track, I recommend a minimum of 10 foot diameter for mainline and larger if you have the space.  the R1 could be used on relatively unimportant sidings.  If you get a K-27 you will definitely want larger than 10 foot diameter. 

Good luck with the experiment.  Reversing the polarity will not be a problem if the transmitter works, just that forward will be reverse etc 

Since you asked about the cable hopefully you asked about the transmitter as well. 
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
seigezapf

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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2012, 01:02:06 PM »

Well, success - at least partially.  I made a power cable from a 4-pin computer disk drive cable with the 4-pin connector shaved a little to fit the receptacle opening in the loco and a male Dean's connector on the other end (wired as per Wade's diagram).

The 4-pin plug seems to be fine.  I connected a 7-cell 8.4v stick battery, turned the right switch on the loco to "on" and the wheels started turning.  It is a bit noisy.

Now for the Tx test.  All of the six crystals affected the locomotive although it seemed like #6 (blue) had the finest grain control.  I only have pistol transmitters in 27 Mhz and speed control was effected with the steering knob which I think is channel 1 on the 2-channel transmitter.  The throttle trigger (ch. 2) had no effect.  Maximum loco speed was at the neutral steering position going to full stop when the steering was turned to the peg (which direction  - clockwise or counterclockwise - affected the speed depended on the reversing switch on the tx). 

Here's the weird part (at least to me).  With the Tx turned off, the loco goes full speed forward.  With the Tx turned on, the loco only goes in reverse although speed can be controlled with the steering control (ch. 1) on the Tx.  Perhaps if the battery connection were switched, the opposite would be the case.  I'll try that.  But I don't quite understand why the direction would change with the Tx on and off.

 For what it is worth I used a Tactic 27 Mhz pistol style 2-channel transmitter.
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Wade Colyer

Lewistown,PA


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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2012, 05:19:47 PM »

Hi:

 The instructions say to turn the transmitter on first then the loco. I remember that the engine will run wide open forward if the engine is turned on without the transmitter. Do you have any trim adjustment on the steering?

Wade
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Sleeping Bear

A genuine ALCOholic


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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2012, 09:13:30 PM »

  It has been my experience in racing R/C cars for 12 plus years that items that are sold as either 27 or 49 MHz are on what is referred to as wide band....meaning any thing on any form of its frequency will affect its operation....including a CB radio if tuned to a frec. in that range..... on a 2 channel transmitter.....steering is channel 1 and as the loco didn't have steering ....the throttle would have been channel 1 having no second channel....you could rewire the loco to run off r/c equipment but you will rewire the better part if not all of the loco and will require more than 2 channels and would most likely be cheaper to pick up a newer loco and a dcc control set up....Aristro Crafts basic train engineer is pretty cheap, can be wired into most anything and I have heard of people having pretty good luck with it. And then there is the issue with the plastic wheels on metal track...unless you have some of the plastic track.......Later All.....S.B.
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"If at first you don't succeed....Get a bigger hammer"
seigezapf

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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2012, 11:15:59 PM »

Hi Wade.  I tried it in all sequences.  With the transmitter on, either before or after the loco, the train runs in reverse.  The trim did help to get top speed in the neutral steering position.  The loco does as you say - running full speed forward - with the transmitter off.

The transmitter that is designed to operate the loco can run in forward or reverse.  Somehow the signal from my 2-channel 27 MHz pistol transmitter is interpreted by the loco as reverse only.

I also have run R/C cars, Sleeping Bear, but not as long as 12 years, and I have almost exclusively used 2.4 GHz.  I believe you are right about the channel usage.  With an R/C car the throttle control can be used to run the car forward or backward (with the ESC programmed that way) - and that is all done on one channel (ch. 2 with 27 MHz).  Steering (on ch 1) does not have to be programed as the servo seems to understand how to respond to clockwise and counterclockwise manipulations.  I'm not sure how re-wiring would make a difference as I think the response of the loco's motor control is pre-programed to respond to signals from Bachmann's proprietary transmitter that are somehow different from a "regular" R/C 27 MHz transmitter.  I certainly could be all wrong about that.

As always, thanks for you comments.  It feels like I am a step closer to understanding with each comment.
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Tony Walsham

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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2012, 01:52:33 AM »

Sleeping Bear is correct.
The R/C is very basic 27 MHz SuperHet RF that will respond to just a simple burst of signal energy anywhere in the 27 MHz band.  So, my guess is the loco has latched onto the broad 27 MHz carrier wave for the Digital Proportional signal.
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Tony Walsham
Founding member of the battery Mafia.


(Remote Control Systems).
seigezapf

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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2012, 12:40:42 PM »

Hi Tony.  I think I understand what you are saying though I am not at all familiar with the terms "Superhet" or "Digital Proportional Signal."

Here in the US as I understand it there are six sub-frequencies in the 27 MHz band that are used for R/C communication.  The sub-frequencies range from 26.995 MHz to 27.225 MHz.  Each sub-frequency is capable of carrying (at least) 2 channels of information (e.g. steering and throttle) between the Tx and Rx. Each of these channels carries information that can be interpreted by an ESC as left/right in degrees of turn and forward/reverse in degrees of speed. 

I believe you are saying that the Bachmann loco receiver does not distinguish sub-frequencies and further is "latching on" to the information that informs the motor control to reverse?
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Tony Walsham

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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2012, 07:33:34 PM »

I will put it another way.
They work totally differently even though they are on the same frequency band.
So no, the loco RX is not capable of doing what you want it to. Even though the RX is picking up some sort of signal it responds to, that is really a fluke.
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Tony Walsham
Founding member of the battery Mafia.


(Remote Control Systems).
seigezapf

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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2012, 12:07:55 PM »

OK.  Thanks.  It appears that Bachmann works in mysterious ways.
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Tony Walsham

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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2012, 05:42:24 PM »

Technology changes.
I would expect Bachmann to use different RF technology to that which it used when they brought out their very first Large Scale loco and set all those years ago.
The set was made to a price and did the job it was designed to do quite well.  My advice is that Bachmann sold enough of these early sets to amortise the cost of the tooling for all subsequent Big Hauler series locos and equipment.
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Tony Walsham
Founding member of the battery Mafia.


(Remote Control Systems).
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