HOn3 or HOn30??

[union pacific 844]

will HOn3 or HOn30  train sets run on ho scale tracks? 

[Doneldon]

844-

Well, yes, HOn30 and HOn3 will run on HO scale track but not on HO gauge track. That's not doubletalk. What I
mean is that the proportions are 1:87, the same as regular HO, but these are narrow gauge trains which run on
track which is either 30 scale inches or 36 scale inches wide. There were some other gauges, like the famous Maine
two-footers, but the 30" and 36" gauges were by far the most common. Regular North American railroads run on
rails which are 4'8.5" apart (56.5").

There were several narrow gauge railroads, primarily in mountainous regions with mining and logging industries. The
narrow gauge trains could be built less expensively than full gauge trains and they were much better suited to the
often very tight curves and steep grades commonly found on logging and mining pikes. Also, many of the logging and
mining railroads were essentially temporary so the lower construction costs were very desirable. There were a
number of permanent narrow gauge railroads, including the Colorado and Southern, East Broad Top and parts of the
D&RGW, to name a few. Several of these still operate as tourist railroads.

I think that HOn30 will run on N-gauge track but HOn3 has its own track. You can purchase it ready built, including
turnouts and crossings. You can even buy dual-gauge track which can be used by both full gauge and narrow gauge
trains.

                 -- D

[CNE Runner]

...HOn30, HOn3, or HOe? For our English readers: OO/9 (yes, I realize OO scale is slightly larger than HO). If this isn't confusing enough, delve into the whole world of 'G-scale'.

Crazy huh?
Ray

[richg]

Hon3 is a little wider track than Hon30 but still 1/87.

Rich

[union pacific 844]

ok just wondering

[CNE Runner]

I think the important thing to remember here is that HOn30/HOe is HO scale (1:87.1) cars, structures, rails, ties, etc. - running on 9 mm gauge (which, unfortunately, is the same as N-gauge). Scale and gauge are very different terms. No Martha, you shouldn't run HOn30/HOe trains on N-gauge track. The rails, ties, and tie spacing will be in N-scale (1:148) whilst everything else will be in 1:87.1 scale [HO]and will look strange. For best results, use HOn30/HOe track for an HOn30/HOe scale layout.

It also follows that one really shouldn't mix HO scale cars with OO units. OO is wildly popular in Europe (especially the U.K.) but is really 1:76.2 and therefore is a little larger than HO...but uses the same track gauge. For more information on the subject see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OO_gauge

Are we having fun yet?
Ray

[Desertdweller]

Ray,

You are giving me a headache!

Since 9mm gauge is both N and HOn30, this is unfortunate only if you run HO scale models on N scale track, and then only unfortunate because the tie spacing looks wrong for HO scale.

But, on the other hand, if HOn30 was not 9mm (and therefore a common gauge with N), it is highly unlikely there would be any HOn30 equipment at all.  It is a pretty rare track gauge.  Consider the availability of HOn2 equipment.  In this country, I think 24" gauge railroads were much more popular than 30" railroads.  I even know of an instance where the same town in New Mexico was served by both 36" and 24" gauge railroads.

Then again, some people have model railroads with no scenery at all.  If all they have is track, they probably are not too worried about running HOn30 equipment on N scale track.  After all, it fits!

G scale!  There is no such thing!  G gauge, yes.  I won't even go there.

Les

[Woody Elmore]

I saw a big Sn3 modular setup and was surprised at how the models could be mistaken for HO. The gauge is 9/16 of an inch wich is only about a sixteenth narrower than HO.

I saw no mention of F scale - which can be added to the plethora of proportions that use G Gauge track.

Life was a lot simpler when there was only Lionel or American Flyer to deal with!

[CNE Runner]

Les - Gosh, the last thing I wanted to do was give you a headache! You actually 'hit the nail on the head' when you talked about HO scale cars on N scale track (notice I didn't say 'gauge'). You made the point I guess I didn't. The HOn30/HOe cars will run on N-scale/gauge track...but will look strange.

Another good point you raised is why 30" gauge? I guess the Rail Gods had to choose from the myriad of gauges that were evident in U.S. railroads throughout history and settled on 30". Having one, commercially available, narrow gauge probably influenced manufacturers to 'get on board' and produce narrow gauge products.

[Mr. Bach Man please excuse this 'plug' for another's track products - I am trying to stay within the forum rules.]

Peco makes some excellent track products in OO/9 (with is equivalent to HOn30/HOe). They seem to have entered the narrow gauge market recently; but have a decent variety of track to offer. Tillig also is in the narrow gauge market. Tillig offers dual-gauge track and turnouts as well - should you want to consider a conjoined track plan of standard (HO/OO) and narrow (HOn30, HOe, OO/9) gauges.

Hey Woody, you are right...it is confusing! [Now I'm the one with the headache.] Say, when are 'they' going to make Civil War products in broad gauge?

Regards,
Ray

[Len]

The 'why' of 30" gauge is simple, ever since home computers became commercially available the "1/2" and "1/4" keys typewriters and Wang Word Processors used to use have disappeared. Which made it harder to specifiy the correct Xn2-1/2 foot gauge (Where X=O/S/HO/TT/N/Z) in publications, so it got 'shorthanded' into Xn30 inch gauge.

The problem being, 2ft and 3ft gauge are still specified in the correct feet, not inches. So occasionally people read an article about an Xn3 (3ft) gauge layout, and think there was a typo and it's supposed to be Xn30 (30in/2-1/2ft) gauge. Or they'll read an article in an older magazine refering to Xn2-1/2 ft gauge, and not realize it's the same as Xn30 in gauge.

In the US, either all of them need to start being referred to in inches, e.g., Xn24, Xn30, Xn36, or (since the 1/2 and 1/4 key will probably never come back to the keyboard) people need to get used to using Xn2-1/2 so the correct Xn2, Xn2-1/2, and Xn3 ft gauges can be used.

Len

[Doneldon]

I saw no mention of F scale - which can be added to the plethora of proportions that use G Gauge track.

Another good point you raised is why 30" gauge? I guess the Rail Gods had to choose from the myriad of gauges that were evident in U.S. railroads throughout history and settled on 30". Having one, commercially available, narrow gauge probably influenced manufacturers to 'get on board' and produce narrow gauge products.

The 'why' of 30" gauge is simple, ever since home computers became commercially available the "1/2" and "1/4" keys typewriters and Wang Word Processors used to use have disappeared.

Woody-
"F" is usually lumped in with the rest of the scales which make up the G-gauge mishmash.

Ray-
I don't think the rail gods selected Xn30 because you can't easily do fractions on word processors. Xn30 isn't the only or even the most widely manufactured narrow gauge. That would be Xn3, with two-foot track manufactured as well.

Len-
It is actually very easy to do fractions on word processors, though doing so on this board isn't (B'man - not a complaint).
But, for example: HOn2¹/₂
                                                -- D

[81F]

Les - Gosh, the last thing I wanted to do was give you a headache! You actually 'hit the nail on the head' when you talked about HO scale cars on N scale track (notice I didn't say 'gauge'). You made the point I guess I didn't. The HOn30/HOe cars will run on N-scale/gauge track...but will look strange.

Another good point you raised is why 30" gauge? I guess the Rail Gods had to choose from the myriad of gauges that were evident in U.S. railroads throughout history and settled on 30". Having one, commercially available, narrow gauge probably influenced manufacturers to 'get on board' and produce narrow gauge products.

[Mr. Bach Man please excuse this 'plug' for another's track products - I am trying to stay within the forum rules.]

Peco makes some excellent track products in OO/9 (with is equivalent to HOn30/HOe). They seem to have entered the narrow gauge market recently; but have a decent variety of track to offer. Tillig also is in the narrow gauge market. Tillig offers dual-gauge track and turnouts as well - should you want to consider a conjoined track plan of standard (HO/OO) and narrow (HOn30, HOe, OO/9) gauges.

Hey Woody, you are right...it is confusing! [Now I'm the one with the headache.] Say, when are 'they' going to make Civil War products in broad gauge?

Regards,
Ray

[81F]

Sorry I still can't get the hang of the Quote button!

However, I just wanted to say that PECO have been doing narrow gauge (009) track and loco body kits for at least 25 to 30 years (although I'm not sure if this was initially restricted to the UK). Although Bachmann Europe make some really nice HOe locos and rolling stock (under the Lilliput brand) I cannot seem to find any track. As to using n gauge track vs HOe or HOn30 track I thing it depends on your Railway or Railroad (or Tramway in my case). I find that the slightly over-scale n gauge track looks more like the track used on the prototype  I am trying to recreate (the 2' 4 1/2" Glyn Valley Tramway in Mid Wales). I guess it's a case of look at your prototype and shop around for the best match!

Regards

Steve

[81F]

I also wish bachmann would make it's On30 range in on HOn30 - I would but a dozen Wood Side-Dump Cars straight off as they are very similar to some I've been trying (and failing!) to scratch build for years.

[CNE Runner]

Steve - Wow, I didn't realize that Peco had been in the HOe 'business' that long! I assumed that all the new advertisements in Railway Modeller were for new stock.

I absolutely agree that Bachmann should make some (all?) of their On30 products in HOn30/HOe. That little On30 Davenport is neat...as are the Forneys. Maybe, just maybe, if enough folks get interested in HOn30/HOe that will happen. I, personally, don't have the room for O-scale trains running on HO trackage. It may be that as the MinitrainS line(s) grow in popularity (if they grow in popularity), more manufacturers will enter they fray.

Everyone needs to check out the Bachmann European website to see some truly outstanding products. On my future dual-gauge exhibition layout (HO & HOn30) I plan on having at least one Terrier on the standard gauge side (Bachmann UK or Hornby).

Cheers,
Ray