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Author Topic: 1/20.3 K-27  (Read 40274 times)
Curmudgeon
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« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2007, 01:32:17 PM »

I don't know about angry.
I have experience with 1:20 K-27's, and know what they will and will not do on my rr.
If you had issues with the 2-8-0 and clearances, well, hang onto your hat.
Every step up in size in locomotives increases minimum diameters, and adjacent track clearances, tunnel clearances, bridge clearances, Armstrong Gallows Turntable Upright clearances.

I recall the first K-27's, to get the cab handrails to clear the rocks on my new grade cutting, I had to lay a hydraulic bottle jack on its side and jack the rocks apart slightly, and that was 6-1/2' RADIUS curves.

As far as electronics, from what I've seen, read and been told, you will be able to do all you want to.

Oh, and I did ask......the cab doors are right.
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bobgrosh

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« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2007, 04:13:23 PM »

Try to buy a Westside 3-truck Shay without Quasinami.

So, Who forced someone to buy a Westside Shay?

I can't buy a Grubbs Lumber Company Shay.
Or Oak Grove and Georgetown.
Or Deal Cutis Lumber Company.
OrYellow Pine Lumber Co
Or J.R.Wallace Lumber Co.
Or Vinegar Bend Lumber Co.
Or Allison and Smith Lumber Company.
Or Allied Logging and Lumber Yards.
Or Sipsey Valley (all of their locos were Shays)
Or Sample Lumber Company.
Or King Lumber Company.
Or Cherokee Lumber Company.
Or Jackson Mill.
Or any of the other SEVENTY FIVE railroads that existed in just the state of Alabama that ran Shays.

I bought a Westside Shay, (DCC), and a Pardee Curtin Shay (DC)
That does not mean that the Bach man came to my house, and with a gun to my head, FORCED me to buy either Shay. How childish.
Bay Creek Lumber Co in Alabama ran Heislers.

"I really wanted a Bay Creek Lumber Co Heisler, But Lewis came a FORCED me to buy a chrome plated Santa Fe E9."  (in your dreams)

At least a DC user CAN buy a Westside Shay. And they CAN run it on DC. And they get a sound system of about a hundred. Not a bad deal.

If they want to run it on Pulse, sorry, flip of a switch will solve that.
If they want to run in on 110AC, (And I know some who have tried) well, sorry there too.

I wonder why so many seem to have suddenly decided they really want to switch to Westside Lumber. Do they, or is it "If I can't have one my way, nobody should have one."

Childish.


It's starting to get daylight here. I'm going outside to play with my trains.

B0B
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Bud Steinhoff

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« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2007, 05:29:34 PM »

Just seen the pictures in the photo gallery.
WOW, that is one beautiful loco.
I do not care how the wiring is, I will convert it to my on-board, sound and smoke just like I have done with the rest of my Bachman equipment.
Congratulation and thanks to Bachman for making this brute available to us at a reasonable price.
Bud
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Curmudgeon
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« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2007, 07:45:39 PM »

Try to buy a Westside 3-truck Shay without Quasinami.

So, Who forced someone to buy a Westside Shay?

I can't buy a Grubbs Lumber Company Shay.
Or Oak Grove and Georgetown.
Or Deal Cutis Lumber Company.
OrYellow Pine Lumber Co
Or J.R.Wallace Lumber Co.
Or Vinegar Bend Lumber Co.
Or Allison and Smith Lumber Company.
Or Allied Logging and Lumber Yards.
Or Sipsey Valley (all of their locos were Shays)
Or Sample Lumber Company.
Or King Lumber Company.
Or Cherokee Lumber Company.
Or Jackson Mill.
Or any of the other SEVENTY FIVE railroads that existed in just the state of Alabama that ran Shays.

I bought a Westside Shay, (DCC), and a Pardee Curtin Shay (DC)
That does not mean that the Bach man came to my house, and with a gun to my head, FORCED me to buy either Shay. How childish.
Bay Creek Lumber Co in Alabama ran Heislers.

"I really wanted a Bay Creek Lumber Co Heisler, But Lewis came a FORCED me to buy a chrome plated Santa Fe E9."  (in your dreams)

At least a DC user CAN buy a Westside Shay. And they CAN run it on DC. And they get a sound system of about a hundred. Not a bad deal.

If they want to run it on Pulse, sorry, flip of a switch will solve that.
If they want to run in on 110AC, (And I know some who have tried) well, sorry there too.

I wonder why so many seem to have suddenly decided they really want to switch to Westside Lumber. Do they, or is it "If I can't have one my way, nobody should have one."

Childish.


It's starting to get daylight here. I'm going outside to play with my trains.

B0B

Several of us were waiting for that.
Thanks for not disappointing anyone.
It was just a surpise it took so long.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything at all.
Like Dell with VISTA, like a new TV with a V-chip, or a new car with on-board computers.

If you want a Westside 3-truck Shay from Bachmann, it comes with a Quasinami for about $100 more.
So, don't buy it.
I know some who did not.
I do not want any product, no matter what it is, I have to remove stuff and throw it away.
Like bloatware.

Let me elaborate a bit.
Let's say I have a 2-truck Westside Shay (which I do), factory lettered.
Let's say it runs on track power.
Let's say I like the paint scheme.
Now, a 3-truck Westside Shay is released, hey, fits right in with my 2-truck.
So, I get the three truck, and find the cost out the door is significantly higher than the other units.
I am not happy, but am assured it will work fine with my 2-truck.
So, I put the three-truck on the track.
I start running it.
Seems a bit sluggish.
I put my 2-truck on several feet behind the three-truck, turn the power on.
The two-truck rams the three truck before the three-truck even starts to move.
Then I find out to adjust starting speeds I need to purchase dcc components.
Now, I am beginning to think about the extra money I spent.
So, I rip the Quasinami that I paid extra for out.
Now it runs fine.
I cannot buy a Westside 3-truck Shay without Quasinami.
So, to obtain one........

BTW, I do have a three-truck Westside Shay.
As far as I know, the Quasinami is land-fill.

Gain a cell, dude.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 08:09:23 PM by Curmudgeon » Logged
bobgrosh

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« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2007, 12:14:13 AM »

Seems like You had three very simple choices:
  • Remove the motor leads from the Quasinami motor outputs and reconnect them to the rail inputs. You got a sound card for about 100 bucks.
  • Buy an un-lettered Shay and a Westside decal. What do you think people do for the 90% of railroads Bachmann does not produce?
  • Call Bachmann repair and tell them the next Quasinami they need can come out of a Westside, and you will buy the lobotomized loco.
  • Don't buy it. You did after all say; "I do not want any product, no matter what it is, I have to remove stuff and throw it away." So, Don't!!! Nobody is forcing you

It surprises me you buy any Bachmann products at all. Why would you buy anything with a smoke generator? They just eat up battery power. Do you rip them out, send them to a landfill? How many couplers have you sent to the landfill? How many Skates? In fact, how many springs, screws, wheels, contact brushes, rubber tires and other bits of BLOATWARE are you forced to pay for that you don't want. TOC, If I were you I'd NEVER buy another loco. Wink

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Kevin Strong


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« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2007, 12:21:07 AM »

Nice photos. All drivers flanged, and still 4' radius? Lots of lateral play, I'll assume. That'll be a welcome addition on quite a few railroads, I'm sure.

BTW, the EBT mikes had blind center drivers, so that part of the engineering will be easier for you.  Smiley

Later,

K
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zubi


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« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2007, 12:55:07 AM »

K, thanks for pointing out! What is the most amazing thing is the full compensation. Best, Zubi PS If Bachmann ever consideres another one K-28 or K36 are so much nicer than those inside frame EBT's
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Curmudgeon
Guest
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2007, 12:55:48 AM »

Bob, reality check here, okay?
ALL Bachmann locos have smoke units.
Bachmann service claims they don't get any three-truck units returned.
They will not sell returned units.

You ever check pricing to see what the Quasinami-equipped vs the non-equipped prices are?

As far as removing it, piece of cake, and why would I want a sound card that I cannot control, nor does it have chuff inputs?

I don't think you even know what we're talking about.

Sure, I re-letter locos.
But, since I had a WSLCo 2-truck, with the red beams, hey, a three-trucker already done would be nice.......but......

I just can't figure out what you want.
You want to be able to control all sorts of things, but don't want wires between loco and tender that break.
You don't want to remove the loco from the track to convert it, yet you go through 12 or 15 ex-LGB engines a year.
I suppose you really need decoders in loco and tender, all addressable, no wires, or maybe a wireless link between loco and tender.

You ever get a Quasinami equipped Shay?
You use that stuff?
I thought you used one brand only?

If I want sound, I buy what I want and put it in.
I would be upset if they came equipped with RCS.
Why?
Because I do not believe control systems or sound should be a choice left solely to the manufacturer.

I have seen one post of yours where you want nothing in them, so you can add your own.
Same here.

The Quasi-nami is unusable to those with track power or trigger line r/c systems, so it goes to land-fill.
Can't put reed switches and magnets to trigger them.
Oh, and ever try to adjust the volume without accessing the adjustmenst digitally?
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Kevin Strong


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« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2007, 01:16:36 AM »

... If Bachmann ever consideres another one K-28 or K36 are so much nicer than those inside frame EBT's

Dem's fightin' woids...  Grin But since TOC and Bob seem to be taking up enough bandwidth with that at the moment, I'll let it go... this time. Cool

Later,

K
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Perry Ottoman

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« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2007, 03:32:40 AM »

Anybody heard any reports about the running of the loco on that day out?

Was it prototypical, i.e. did it waddle off the track much ?  Grin
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zubi


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« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2007, 04:23:33 AM »

Perry, with fully equalised suspension it probably run as if it were glued to the track! But I'd be happy to hear the reports too. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
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bobgrosh

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« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2007, 09:39:20 AM »

Quote
You ever check pricing to see what the Quasinami-equipped vs the non-equipped prices are?
Yes. In fact I bought one with the Quasi,

Quote
As far as removing it, piece of cake, and why would I want a sound card that I cannot control, nor does it have chuff inputs?

Piece of cake, I sure hope so. Was it YOU who told me "two screws from rear of tank, slide forward. With the Quasi installed, all the wiring has to be right there. I should have no problem replacing the Quasinami. Unlike the old Shay.




Quote
I just can't figure out what you want.
I suppose you really need decoders in loco and tender, all addressable, no wires, or maybe a wireless link between loco and tender.

Right, If I'm going to buy a loco that LOOKS great, I want it to OPERATE great too. Some might worry about the taper of the stack, or shape of a dome. What about the Sound of the chuff, the sound of the reverser, the operation of the lights. Why destroy the whole image with perfect details and have the wrong sounds or some flashing LED for the firebox.


See? You DID figure out what I want.
Backup light in a tender. Why would you ever put a wire from the loco to the tender for a backup light. Power it from the tender wheels. Want it directional? Put the diode in the tender, not the loco. Using DCC, put a single function decoder in the tender. Why have a perfectly accurate,  highly detailed loco then some big ugly cable and connectors between the loco and tender.
I don't want toggle switches, charging jacks, or big white computer power plugs hanging out the front and back either. If the wires between tenders and locos are not necessary, then why have them?

I have six locos with tenders that have no wires. Backup lights work as per prototype, and can be turned off for daytime running from my wireless remote. Looks like the prototype, works like the prototype, no fiddly little plugs to work loose. Even the chuff is synchronized, still no wire. Sure, wire the tender to the loco, IF IT IS NECESSARY to make it work. but it is NOT 90% of the time.




Quote
You ever get a Quasinami equipped Shay?
You use that stuff?
YES, Got one
No Don't use it.
Why would I want a Shay that sounds like a two cylinder rodded loco?
Chuff sequence had great uneven chuff's typical of a somewhat worn cylinders. Problem is, there are only FOUR distinctly different sounding chuff's in the sequence, not SIX. Why in ___ did they think they could put a 2 cyl sound in a 3 cyl loco.
Slow it WAY down and listen to the side rod clank.
Who is the idiot who put siderods on the Shay sound card? Where are the Shay gear sounds. Where are the shay mechanicals sounds? Aren't any.

So, Yes, I bought the Shay with the Quasi, I can set it on the track and run it right out of the box. I have new decoders sitting right here waiting. I know all the needed wires are in place and identified because they are connected to the Quasi. You tell me I can do the whole swap with two screws from the rear. I will not have to lay the loco on it's side and break something. Hell, I won't even have to worry about braking off the steps or crushing some small part while removing it from the rails.

Quote
I thought you used one brand only?
Don't know where you got that from, I own more other brand locos than I do the red box. But It is only the red box locos that get run. The rest rusted up or crumbled or are to fragile to be left outside.

Quote
If I want sound, I buy what I want and put it in.
 
I want sound, I do the same. I don't go around whining about someone FORCING me at gunpoint to buy something I did not want. I am tickled to death that Bachmann made a Shay with a decoder and sound. I gladly bought it of my own free will, even though I prefer better sound. I know I won't be spending time trying to rewire trucks, drilling holes for the sound to come out etc. If it was a small light locos built with toy like details I would not worry about installing anything. For a big heavy loco it's a different story, I know I can't do it successfully. Been there.

Quote
I would be upset if they came equipped with RCS.Why?
Because I do not believe control systems or sound should be a choice left solely to the manufacturer.

So you would create the "Garden Railroad Administration, Bureau of Sound and Control Regulations."

Of COURSE manufacturers should have a choice. Free society. Market will decide. They should put in what the think will increase sales, boost profits or whatever they want. It's their company, they decide.

Buyers, should ask questions. read manuals, follow forums, then make informed choices. It is entirely up to YOU to decide what to buy.
Obviously you wanted to buy a Westside Shay.You did, despite the Quasinami. Your decision. If you REALLY don't buy anything that has BLOATWARE, then why in the heck did you buy the Westside?

Quote
I have seen one post of yours where you want nothing in them, so you can add your own.
Same here.
Yep, all the small locos, I prefer nothing in them. If I have a choice between two identical locos, one with MTS one without, I buy the one without. I know I can easily install a good decoder in any small rugged TOY like loco.

If the loco is big, heavy, highly detailed, that's different. I know from past experience I'm not physically capable of laying a shay on a foam pad for lubrication without breaking of a dozen little parts.
Then I choose one with a decoder I like, or even one with a decoder I don't like. I figure it will be easy to change without rolling it over and breaking all the parts. While big heavy locos like the Mikado, Shay, and K27 are not a problem for most people, for me it is.

If the Kay ends up in production with the configurations reported so far, It looks like I can manage the conversion despite the weight and size of the loco and the nature of highly detailed fragile parts.  All work can be accomplished from the top with very little chance of breakage.

Seems to me that the only solution some people (not you TOC) advocate is to not offer DCC or even "DCC ready" in anything.

I'd like all (sparky) locos sold DCC ready. Seems to me like anything done (if done correctly) to make a loco "DCC ready" also makes it "battery ready" or "TE ready" or "DCS ready".

What happens when companies make DCC compatible locos?
First, they can't connect the motors directly to the wheels inside the trucks. Isn't that the first thing you want to eliminate for battery installs too?

Where would the battery RC installers be today if not for DCC standards? Still soldering motor tabs from truck side-frames. Drilling holes in trucks and adding more wires. Slipping insulators between the motor and frame.

I prefer locos designed for quick easy installation of a variety of power options. Their base model usually includes the most popular option, DC in LS or DCC in small scales.  Eventually that will change when some other system becomes the dominate method of running trains.

Quote
The Quasi-nami is unusable to those with track power or trigger line r/c systems, so it goes to land-fill.
Can't put reed switches and magnets to trigger them.
Oh, and ever try to adjust the volume without accessing the adjustmenst digitally?
Nope, never expected to have features not advertised. Never saw a ad that said "manual volume knob". Course pots are cheep. If you really want one, wire it in. Why do you worry about features you were not promised on cards you didn't want in the first place. Who is it that keeps FORCING you to by the stuff you don't want?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 10:23:38 AM by bobgrosh » Logged
zubi


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« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2007, 09:46:11 AM »

GEEE, Bob and Curmee, you both need a dedicated forum, I cannot find my stuff in between... Anyway, enjoy yourselves, it is a party day with a K like Bachmann showed! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
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zubi


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« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2007, 10:34:50 AM »

Nice photos. All drivers flanged, and still 4' radius? Lots of lateral play, I'll assume. [...]

Later,

K

K, probably not. Not a lateral play. What you can see in the photos are large diameter tubes and springs which likely indicate that an articulation similar to that of Klein-Linder type is used on the locomotive. This solution has been used by LGB/Aster on their K-28. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
PS Probably the most well known application of the Klein-Linder articulation principle was the Brigadelok, here is the explanation: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/klienlindner/klienlindner.htm
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zubi


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« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2007, 10:51:37 AM »

Correct spelling is Klein-Lindner of course, Sorry, Zubi
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