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Author Topic: All the same loco's  (Read 9807 times)
Doneldon

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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 07:05:36 AM »

Skar-

I think it may actually be cheaper to build the English models. In looking at the web page you cited, I notice that most of the locos are fairly small, many without tenders. Their sheathing conceals more of the plumbing and appliances than is the case in the US which simplifies tooling, assembly and painting.
                                                                                                                                                       -- D
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GG1onFordsDTandI
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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 08:16:52 AM »


Whether railroad modelling is less popular in the US per capita than in the UK or the US is more interested in modern era modelling than the UK (which is mainly still modelling the steam era), or whether there is some other factor or factors at play, I don't know. 

In my opinion, the USA has developed a media driven fascination with anything new, anything old is "not as good" no mater how well made. "New stuff is cool, Old stuff is sucky." Words directly out of the mouth of an 18yr old American sitting across from me. Sad, but that about sums up the attitude. (Yes I'm slowly twisting his arm [and brain], and he's learning...slowly)     
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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 02:08:49 PM »

Skar-

I think it may actually be cheaper to build the English models. In looking at the web page you cited, I notice that most of the locos are fairly small, many without tenders. Their sheathing conceals more of the plumbing and appliances than is the case in the US which simplifies tooling, assembly and painting.
                                                                                                                                                       -- D


True, UK locos are in the main smaller than US locos, hence why I said 'size for size.' That there is more detail work on US locos with al the exposed pipework is a good point but perhaps offset, at least in part, by the fact that many UK locos have more complicated liveries than most US steam locos.

I think GG1onFordsDTandI may have the answer that interest in RRs is much the same in the UK and the US but we differ in our preference for era and prototype. It's noticeable among Bachmann UK's new and proposed releases in OO that a number of them date from pre-1920, albeit they all had operating lives of thirty plus years, which is reflected in the liveries they are offered in. The same is true of the other big manufacturer in British OO gauge.
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rogertra


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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 06:43:59 PM »

UK prototype locos are small but the OO scale models are not.  They are modelled at 4mm to the foot while HO is 3.5mm to the foot. If you compare a real UK pacific to real North American pacific, the North American pacific will be noticeably larger in all dimensions. However, due to the different scale used in OO (4mm/ft) and HO (3.5mm/ft) models will be about the same over all size.  For example, a OO pacific will be about the same size as an HO pacific.

Yes, UK designers of steam, just as the designers of UK diesels are more concerned about aesthetics than North American designers ever were, with few exceptions.  The CPR for example, in later years, designed some quite attractive steam locos while Raymond Loewy designs never really turned mu crank.  Smiley

However, the UK designers concerns over aesthetics was at the expense of loco crew comfort and ease of operation.  In a North American locomotive, the locomotive engineer, from his comfortable padded seat, can reach all the controls he generally needs without once standing up, even while running in reverse.


The poor UK driver in his cramped, sometimes very open to the elements cab, would have at most a simple, round, pop-up wooden seat to sit on, controls placed so he had to stand to reach them (which means his seat pops up every time he stands), controls he could not reach while running in reverse, like the brakes, and many other inconveniences unknown to the North American locomotive engineer.  Many tank engines, for example, had no seats at all and the crew stood for the entire length of their 8 to 10 hour shift.

Yep, UK locos many look nice and "cute" which is why "Thomas" could never work with North American stream, but for the crews, they were uncomfortable place in which to work.

So, UK models are about the same size as North American models when it comes to tender locomotives and passenger cars but, in many case, models of UK tank locos are larger when stood next to a HO tank loco.


 BTW, UK steam models generally have the sound decoder speaker in the smokebox, where the sound is supposed to come from, not in the tender as over here.  My UK modeler friends just don't understand why we put the speaker in the tender.


« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 10:28:02 PM by rogertra » Logged

jward


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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 10:22:14 PM »

let us also not forget that the us designs, especially with diesels, were durable, reliable, and would run forever with minimal maintainence. reliability was a hugely important selling point, and those builders whose products proved to be shop queens quickly went out of business.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
rogertra


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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 10:25:29 PM »

let us also not forget that the us designs, especially with diesels, were durable, reliable, and would run forever with minimal maintainence. reliability was a hugely important selling point, and those builders whose products proved to be shop queens quickly went out of business.

Unlike the UK designed and built diesels.

Those Canadian build Class 66s almost went into service straight from the docks.  They are now the most common freight diesel in the UK and are also used in several European countries.
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jward


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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 11:09:06 PM »

they are EMD designs. while there are no direct north American equivalents, they are based on proven components. they would be the equivalent of an sd59, which was never built. the closest equivalent here would probably be the sd30 eco rebuilds for Canadian pacific, or the sd32eco for union pacific.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Doneldon

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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2013, 12:56:54 AM »

BTW, UK steam models generally have the sound decoder speaker in the smokebox, where the sound is supposed to come from, not in the tender as over here.  My UK modeler friends just don't understand why we put the speaker in the tender.

Roger-

I agree that the smoke box is the ideal place for a speaker but the smaller scale of HO makes it hard to get one of any size in there. So we fill the smoke box and boiler with lead to increase traction. Also, UK locos tend to have larger boilers and smoke boxes because many of them are tank locos. The combination of scale and style make it much easier to get a reasonably-sized speaker where it belongs.

What puzzles me is that speakers aren't in the smoke boxes of larger scale locomotives where there's plenty of space.
                                                                                                                                                                               -- D

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rogertra


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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2013, 02:18:53 AM »

they are EMD designs. while there are no direct north American equivalents, they are based on proven components. they would be the equivalent of an sd59, which was never built. the closest equivalent here would probably be the sd30 eco rebuilds for Canadian pacific, or the sd32eco for union pacific.

jward.

Actually, the UK class 66 is based on the SD40/SD-2 and uses radial trucks with dual cabs and a car body designed to fit into the tight UK loading gauge.

Having excellent reliability, way better than competing UK designs which they rapidly supplanted,  made class 66s very unpopular with UK rail fans as they brought about the demise of popular UK diesels.  However, they did wonders for the struggling UK rail freight traffic.  They were also initial unpopular with drivers (engineers)  as they complained the cab was noisy, cold and draughty in the winter and too hot in the summer.  The seating arrangement was also criticized.

BTW, from practical experience of many cab rides, I know you can hold a conversation in the cab of the traditional UK diesels without raising your voice.  Sound levels were almost a quiet as in passenger cars unlike North American diesel cabs which are quite loud.  It's thought the London, Ontario manufacturers assumed that UK drivers would be used to the same noise levels as found in North American cabs.  Complaints must have come as a surprise, especially when the driver's union was considering a ban on the class 66s until all the problems were fixed.  Smiley

Changes were made.  The cabs were isolated from the bodies by using rubber mounts, air leaks were filled and draughts eliminated, seat changed and a/c installed in the cabs.

Class 66s are now some of the most popular freight units in many European countries and not just in the UK.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 10:24:59 AM by rogertra » Logged

jward


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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2013, 09:12:04 AM »

the earlier class 59 were the sd40-2 equivalents.  the class66uses a 12 cylinder 710 engine instead of the sd40-2's 16 cylinder 645. 12-710s are rare on this side of the pond, only rebuilds and the ns gp59 use them in rail service. the horsepower rating is similar with 4 fewer cylinders in the 710, plus they are a much cleaner running engine than the old 645s.

I agree about the noise levels. you should have heard the old u25b, those were deafening to the point of drowning out the other units in the consist. they were even loud at idle.

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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Desertdweller

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« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2013, 06:01:14 PM »

The locos I couldn't afford in brass in 1969 are appearing now in plastic at the 1969 prices.

I think the new plastic locos are better runners than the 1969 brass ones were anyway.

Only have to wait 40 years or more.

Les
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