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Author Topic: 4-6-4 Locomotives  (Read 8040 times)
WGL
Great Northern


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« on: April 09, 2014, 02:54:49 AM »

 Why are 4-6-4 locomotives so expensive in DCC?  The prices seem to run $300 or more, but the models have sound.  I haven't found any that are DCC without sound.  I bought my Bachmann 4-8-4 new for less than $100.  It derails on my 22" maximum curves, so I think a 4-6-4 would suit me better.  I wonder why Bachmann has none.
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jbrock27

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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 09:42:17 AM »

Just to be sure, have you checked the gauge of all the wheels?
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Keep Calm and Carry On
jward


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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 10:57:51 AM »

I think you answered your own question: dcc AND sound.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
rogertra


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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 02:57:04 PM »

Model railroading is NOT cheap.

DCC and sound locos, the detailed ones with full range sound decoders that is, will all cost around the $300 mark.  That's the way it is these days.

The Bachmann "Sound Value" locomotives in the $150 range are nice runners but to save money they lack details most of us have come to expect.  No numbers, fewer details,  simpler sound decoders with way fewer options, etc., etc..  Adding or upgrading these all cost money so to save you money, Bachmann leave them off.  You can do what I and many other do, add them yourself with after market details but that's the choice you have to make.


Cheers

Roger.
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Doneldon

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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 10:35:53 PM »

WGL-

Your $100 Northern wasn't/isn't the last word in HO steam locomotives. Its detail level, durability, features and operation are no match for today's latest locomotives. If you want the detail, control and sound you have to expect to pay for it. Frankly, comparing a $100 steamer to a current one with DCC and sound is a real apples and oranges thing. The comparison just isn't a fair one.
                                                                                                                                                                               -- D
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RAM

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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 12:14:21 AM »

Bachmann does have a 4-6-2.  If they came out with a 4-6-4, which one would it be.  NYC is the only railroad that had vary many.  Most railroads used 4-6-2s.  The railroads that did have them only had a few. 
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WGL
Great Northern


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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 03:03:28 AM »

  I am content with the Bachmann SD45s & 2-10-2 DCC locomotives I have.  I don't want to pay for sound to get a 4-6-4, just DCC.  I figured that most would be NY Central.  I like the 20th Century streamliner.  There are a few Hiawatha streamliners, but the last one I saw on eBay sold for almost $200 without sound & I think it was only DC.  I have two BLI locomotives with sound & two Intermountain locos with sound.  I don't understand why the wheels on my 4-8-4 would not all have the same gauge.
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bobwrgt

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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 06:38:24 AM »

I would fix your 4-8-4 or your track as I have many Bachmann 4-8-4's and none derail on 22in radius. Might be the wheel gauge, something restricting movement of front or rear pilot truck, Draw bar or wires between engine and tender binding. Check the track to see if it is level front to back as well as side to side. Might be a dip in one rail. Does it derail always in the same spot or all over??
You could get an IHC, Rivarossi or Mantua 4-6-4 but you would have to install the DCC. If it is a problem with the track the 4-6-4 might also derail.
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jbrock27

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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 10:26:21 AM »

WGL, I don't know why either (there are certainly a  lot of things out there in life, that I would like to know the answer "why" but will never get such an answer), except to offer as an explanation that sometimes these kind of mass produced items are not assembled or manufactured perfectly.  Every hear of  mass produced items sometimes having quality control issues from time to time?  It's worth your checking, in my opinion.  At least you will learn whether they are in gauge or not and possibly the problem.  Good luck.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 12:01:34 PM by jbrock27 » Logged

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rogertra


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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 02:53:39 PM »

I would fix your 4-8-4 or your track as I have many Bachmann 4-8-4's and none derail on 22in radius. Might be the wheel gauge, something restricting movement of front or rear pilot truck, Draw bar or wires between engine and tender binding. Check the track to see if it is level front to back as well as side to side. Might be a dip in one rail. Does it derail always in the same spot or all over??
You could get an IHC, Rivarossi or Mantua 4-6-4 but you would have to install the DCC. If it is a problem with the track the 4-6-4 might also derail.

Interesting comment about leveling track.  All my main track curves are super-elevated as that's how the prototype does it and I have zero derailments.  Well, except when operators run through closed switches.   Smiley

But then again, I don't use tight radius set track curves with the added hassle of not only a really tight radius but easily misaligned rail joints every nine inches or so.

Cheers

Roger.
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jward


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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 07:46:14 PM »

it's not so much the superelevation of curves but the twist in the track they entail that causes problems. when one rail drops relative to the other, wheels tend to climb the outside rail of the curve. this is especially true of long rigid wheelbase locomotives like steamers.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
WGL
Great Northern


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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 03:53:40 AM »

Thanks for your suggestions, giving me more things to try.  I had earlier been advised to weight the front truck, but that did not help.  I use Walthers Power-loc track.  I must check to see if the 4-8-4 derails at switches.  Bachmann's webstore e-mailed me this advice:

Sorry to hear that you're having a problem with your 484 locomotive, all our 484 locomotives are designed to go around a minimum of 22 inch radius. These are very long locomotives but are designed to go around 22 inches minimum. Make sure the locomotive is lighly lubricated with model railroader lubricant oil only, on the metal valve gear parts that move and where the side rods connected to the crank pins of the locomotive. Turn the locomotive upside down, and place a drop of lubricant on the axles where they enter the chassis behind the wheels. You can slightly push the wheels aside to the left and right and use a needlepoint oiler which comes with your model railroader lubricant. Most have it.

Now also lubricate with one small drop the axles that rotate in the front lead truck. Back and forth. There is also a swivel arm and there is a mount at the front and rear of the arm attached to the lead truck. Also do the same for the trailing truck at the back of the locomotive. This will free and easily allow the axles to move laterally as well as role.

Also make sure that the wires with the plugs have enough play to go left and right. Use the drawbar hole farthest from the back of the locomotive. This will allow the tender to go around 22 inch radius curves.

Please note we cannot lubricate locomotives at the factory in the box otherwise oil would be over everything. The internal parts of the motor and the bearings are all taking care.

  Reference to your question about a 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive. The 484 locomotives were much more common. And there was only five or six railroads that used Hudson 4-6-4 locomotives and were only used on the flatlands and were not designed to pull long trains up steep grades. And they also take the same radius as the larger northern 4-8-4 locomotives which were extremely common throughout North America right to the end of  steam in the 1960s. And many survive today in occasional operation nationwide.

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WGL
Great Northern


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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2014, 03:29:13 AM »

 I tried the advice to oil the wheels & pistons & connect the tender furthest from the 4-8-4 locomotive.  I ran them on track without switches on 22" curves.  The tender was the first to derail.
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AGSB
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2014, 09:00:10 AM »

Just a shot in the dark, but take your tender and tighten up one of truck screws so that the truck can only turn with no rocking. On the other truck, tighten the screw so that the truck can swivel and rock a bit. I have read of this procedure several places and have had some success with some of my rolling stock that kept derailing.
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RAM

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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2014, 10:08:37 PM »

If you are trying to run the Santa Fe 4-8-4 on 22in.R I am sure you would have trouble with the 8 wheel tender trucks.
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