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Author Topic: Wiring question for new PCB in 4-6-0 tender  (Read 4852 times)
tomwolf

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« on: May 12, 2014, 01:52:07 PM »

I had two old 4-6-0s given to me by a friend.  I tried my first "upgrade" by purchasing two new drive units as well as two new sound boards for the tender from Bachmann parts.  The drive units are obviously a great improvement compared to the old.  The SOUND labeled connector provided with the new PCB and the exploded drawing on the website showing the wiring for the tender shows the BLACK sound wire going to the volume rheostat (and there was an empty tab there that I soldered it to).  However the drawing shows the RED wire going to some vague location on the PCB.  Does anyone know where the RED wire is to be soldered?

As a point of information for anyone else doing this, I also noticed that the wiring according to the exploded wiring diagram for the 4-6-0 differs from how the drive units are actually wired.  The ON-OFF switch for the smoke unit on the new power units has only 4 of the 6 contacts wired, while the diagram shows all six being used.  I am also adding the LED light to the tender (the old one had no lighting) and this may be an issue for that, I am not there yet.
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 09:19:42 AM »

Tom
I am not sure this will help since my 4-6-0's all have after market sound and I cant find the old sound boards I removed .  This much I know there are only four wires involved, two go to the chuff sensor these would connect to the two wires coming into the tender from the locomotive. they would lead to the the plug on the loco marked sound.  Wire colors vary but on mine they were both black.   The other two wires go to the 9 volt battery via the on/off/rheostat.  Again wire colors are not consistent over the years, I have seen black and red and others have seen other colors.   Here is a link to my friend George Sheyers' page about Bachmann sound boards for the 4-6-0, he diagrams the board and it may help:

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html#sound

The replacement chassis are definitely version 5 chassis and are outstanding in every respect.
When you add the lighting circuit be sure to include a dropping resistor to prevent the led from burning out. 

Hopefully some one will else will come up with more specific help for you.

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
tomwolf

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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 12:05:30 PM »

Thanks, I will review the schematics with my electrical engineer neighbor in hopes he can point out the right spot! 

Bachmann does provide the resistor with the LED lighting part so thanks for that input also.  I got that working.

I have installed Phoenix sound in all of my other Bachmann steam engines, but I was remodeling these two 4-6-0s to get them ready for two households of grand-kids so for now I think any noise is good.  Since some of the board mods in the material you referred me to are simple and not expensive, I may do those also.

Thanks again!

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tomwolf

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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 06:16:32 PM »

Bill, Just a quick follow-up to my wiring question for the 4-6-0.  The appropriate place to solder the red wire from the Bachmann "Sound" connection to the PCB is at the positive connection to the 9 volt battery.  When tested independent of the engine connection, it works fine.  Thank you again for the other reference material.
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 11:22:58 PM »

Tom, you are welcome, and I'm glad all has worked out so well!!!

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
jviss

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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 11:42:04 AM »

As a point of information for anyone else doing this, I also noticed that the wiring according to the exploded wiring diagram for the 4-6-0 differs from how the drive units are actually wired.  The ON-OFF switch for the smoke unit on the new power units has only 4 of the 6 contacts wired, while the diagram shows all six being used.  I am also adding the LED light to the tender (the old one had no lighting) and this may be an issue for that, I am not there yet.

I have also purchased a locomotive drive unit, an Anniversary model, from Bachmann parts, and a 4-6-0 dummy display locomotive and tender on eBay.  I noticed that the locomotive headlight and wiring are not included with the drive unit.  I downloaded the locomotive schematic, LS_4-6-0_Metal_Gears.dc_wiring.pdf.  I think there is a mistake in the diagram for the LED headlight wiring, and upon reflection I have a question about headlight operation.

The possible mistake is that the headlight power is taken off the smoke unit switch, but the takeoff point is incorrect, and the power feed for the switch is incorrect.  If you visualize the back of the switch, held horizontally, with three vertically aligned pair of terminals, referred to as left, center (or common) and right, the power feed should be connected to the center, and smoke generator to either left or right.  The headlight should be taken off the center, so that it is always energized, regardless of the smoke unit switch position.  As it is in the schematic, the smoke unit would never be energized, and the headlight would only function in one switch position.  A minor point is that the polarity of the LED is not indicated in the diagram.

The question I have about LED headlight operation is this: are these locomotives operated such that the headlight is only on when the locomotive is moving forward?  Since an LED only illuminates with one polarity of DC, it seems to me that when track polarity is reversed to run the loco in reverse, the headlight would not illuminate.

Thanks,

jv
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Bachmann Big Hauler fan
Pennsylvania Railroad Set - generation 3 locomotive
Emmet Kelly Circus set - generation 3 locomotive
Open Streetcar
4-6-0 D&RGW "Bumblebee" Anniversary loco
various passenger cars and rolling stock
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DCC: Digitraxxxxx Super Chief Xtra 8A
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2015, 10:25:38 AM »

JV

Yes the locomotive is wired so the Led headlight will come on when the locomotive is going forward, and the rear headlight come on when the loco goes into reverse.

The polarity is critical to the proper operation of the lights.  When you turn on the transformer and select forward, the front headlight will come on when you apply power because the polarity is correct for forward and the rear headlight will stay dark because the polarity is not correct for it.  When you select reverse  the opposite is true.

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
jviss

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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2015, 02:18:09 PM »

Thanks, Bill. 

By the way, my tenders don't have functioning lights; both are from generation 3 locomotives, one with the Emmett Kelly, Jr. set of about 20 years ago, the other a Pennsylvania RR set of approximately the same vintage.

Are they supposed to have functioning lights?
 
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Bachmann Big Hauler fan
Pennsylvania Railroad Set - generation 3 locomotive
Emmet Kelly Circus set - generation 3 locomotive
Open Streetcar
4-6-0 D&RGW "Bumblebee" Anniversary loco
various passenger cars and rolling stock
indoor, temporary at this point
DCC: Digitraxxxxx Super Chief Xtra 8A
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 04:10:58 PM »

They do not have operating rear headlights, but can be modified to work if you wish.  Only the Anniversary 4-6-0's with the coal tender have a factory installed operating rear headlight.

Have fun!!

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
jviss

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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 04:32:58 PM »

Thanks Bill!

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Bachmann Big Hauler fan
Pennsylvania Railroad Set - generation 3 locomotive
Emmet Kelly Circus set - generation 3 locomotive
Open Streetcar
4-6-0 D&RGW "Bumblebee" Anniversary loco
various passenger cars and rolling stock
indoor, temporary at this point
DCC: Digitraxxxxx Super Chief Xtra 8A
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