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Author Topic: Reducing Engine Speed to Allow Smoke Unit to work  (Read 13880 times)
chieffan

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« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2014, 09:34:39 PM »

Hi all.  Roger here.  I tried the diode bridge in two different engines with little results.  It did slow the engines down but still not getting the smoke generated.  The smoke units work with the motor switch turned off.  They both get real warm when running normally.

I used 1/2 watt rectifier diodes to be sure they were heavy enough to take the possible heat.

I have not tried the resistor route as yet.  Familiar with that process as I have done this with several motors for driving HO displays.  But - they were running with a constant applied voltage.  Not the case with an engine on the tracks.  I think the 9V battery may be a route worth looking into with little trouble.  It may or may not have enough power.  Be nice to be able to hook it in directly through the regulator on the board but that would be a real task to say the least.

I worked this out successfully in HO with DCC but in that situation I had an extra power lead from the decoder and could vary the output with a CV setting.  Looking like a good winter project.  along with adding ball bearing to the freight car trucks and building a couple or three houses from cedar square logs.

Thanks for all the advice and lessons in electronics.

Roger
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Chieffan
Joe Satnik


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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2014, 11:49:10 AM »

Dear All,

Resistors generate more heat than diodes at higher speeds (can you say "melted plastic"?), and take more top end speed off the motor. 

Roughly speaking, diodes subtract voltage from the motor, resistors divide voltage to the motor.

Find out what the stall current (in "Amps") is for your motor, and buy diodes rated at least that much. 

Chieffan,

What type of loco do you have? This will help us figure its stall current. 

Just add more single diodes (called "extra diodes" in the Dallee pdf diagram) in series (along the pdf gray wire) to get more voltage drop to the motor,

and thus higher track voltage to the smoke unit and lights.    

Two diodes in series: -------l<---------l<-------

http://www.dallee.com/PDFs/MotorDiodeDrop.pdf

You can get diodes and diode bridges shipped to your door for reasonable prices from on-line auction websites.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
Joe Satnik


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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2014, 12:34:46 PM »

Dear All,

George Schreyer personally answered my stall current question on LSC 5 years ago:

"I don't know if the (Bachmann) Annie is different from other 5th generation (Big Hauler) units,

but one 5th generation loco that I have (Chattanooga Choo Choo) has a hard stall current of 4 amps."

(Italicized words added.)

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/tractive_effort_tests.html

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
chieffan

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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2014, 03:19:54 PM »

Sorry for the delay but fall work got in line first.  The two engines I am working with are a Bachmann Big Hauler and an Aristocraft F7 A and B units.  The Aristo units have a fairly large tank for smoke fluid where the Big Hauler is relatives small.

I had up to 3 extra diodes in the circuit and it slowed the motor but still did not get much smoke from the smoke units.  I am not looking for a large plume of smoke but would like a decent indication that smoke is present.

May have to work on this more this winter and see what I can shake out of it all.  A lot of things look good on paper and in theory but in actuality it simply don't work that way.

Time to go clean the tracks. Embarrassed Cry
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Chieffan
NarrowMinded


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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2014, 11:29:21 PM »

Are you running these outside only?

Nm-Jeff
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chieffan

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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2014, 08:41:35 AM »

Yes, these are outdoor run only so the smoke odor, etc. is not a problem. Wink
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Chieffan
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2014, 09:42:08 AM »

Trying to get heavy smoke on an outdoor layout, in my humble opinion, is really not worth the effort.  Even the slightest breeze dissipates it so fast you hardly know it is there.  I quit bothering with smoke outdoors because of this sad situation.
I gave up on smoke even indoors, because the constant use of the smoke made a mess all over my locomotives and I did not like the white color.
I would love to see someone come up with a way to get black smoke!!!  I would get back into smoke for sure. 

My son and I did have fun with a fog machine on my Missouri Western RR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KebZD9Gf818

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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Chuck N

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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2014, 10:32:26 AM »

I'm with Bill, smoke units are more trouble than they are worth.  I cut the wire as soon as I get a new steamer.  Indoors it's the smell and outside I'm lucky if I can see it.

The early 18v LGB smoke units did put out a fair amount of smoke.  When they went to the 5v with a voltage regulator is when I gave up on smoke.

I forgot to cut the wire on an LGB smoke unit in a Mogul.  This was a later version, so I assume that it had a 5v system.  I ran it for several hours dry.  I now have a slightly bent stack.  It got too hot and the plastic softened.  That is why I'm not in favor of them.

Chuck
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Joe Zullo

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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2014, 02:35:56 PM »

I recently acquired a Bachmann 36 ton Shay with the latest die cast trucks. The previous owner upgraded the smoke unit with an 5 volt LGB Seuthe type smoke unit. It works pretty good outside and is head over heels better than any Bachmann unit. Like Chuck, I disable the Bachmann units (remove them, a smoke-ectomy). I use lamp oil and it puts out a good amount of smoke. Like Bill, I wish we could get some black smoke!
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chieffan

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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2014, 02:42:54 PM »

I am familiar with the Seuthe smoke units.  Ran several in my HO steamers.   They will burn out also and one has to keep them wet all the time or switch them out.  Kind of a pain.  I think I am going to give up on smoke.  Getting to be more of a pain then it is worth.  Black smoke from a diesel in not a good sign either.  Will spend my time on other projects that yield more satisfaction, like scratch building Large scale structures with cedar. Sad
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Chieffan
Chuck N

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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2014, 03:34:41 PM »

Since I liked smoke, early in my addiction to large scale (about 1980), but didn't want it all the time, I mounted a micro switch inside the smokebox door of some of my LGB engines, so I could turn it on and off.  I finally just left it off.  That is an option if you go back to trying to get smoke.

Chuck
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chieffan

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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2014, 05:27:41 PM »

ll of my engines have the factory switch for smoke and motor.  Bachmann, Aristo and Atlas. Grin
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Chieffan
Chuck N

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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2014, 05:50:01 PM »

I didn't know what you had.  Some do and some don't.

Chuck
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Joe Zullo

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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2014, 06:58:53 PM »

I am familiar with the Seuthe smoke units.  Ran several in my HO steamers.   They will burn out also and one has to keep them wet all the time or switch them out.  Kind of a pain.  I think I am going to give up on smoke.  Getting to be more of a pain then it is worth.  Black smoke from a diesel in not a good sign either.  Will spend my time on other projects that yield more satisfaction, like scratch building Large scale structures with cedar. Sad
All smoke units I can think of need to be switched off when dry, but the Seuthe type is much more forgiving than the Bachmann units. If smoke is not for you, so be it. Do what makes YOU happy!  Cheesy
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