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Author Topic: Spectrum GP30 noise  (Read 17085 times)
DarG

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« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2014, 02:33:21 PM »

GP's mostly.   I think I have one other but cant recall what it is however I do know that part numbers for motors and internals are the same for all.     I believe that I have 5 Athearn BB's in total. 

The Tenma station that was a workhorse for me was the 21-147.  I'm, pretty sure that it was $49 back when I bought it.  Now I think they are close to $80.  It's only real weakness was that it wasn't the fastest station to reach set temperature.  I had no problems with recovery but with the work I mostly did with it, I didn't need something that recovered on the spot.    The only thing I would be leary of is whether they have gone to cheaper internal parts now.     I replaced it with the 21-1590 which appears to be the same unit but with a numerical readout.  It is faster to heat up but that may be because it is new.   It was on sale for $69 when I bought it a few months back. 
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jbrock27

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« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2014, 03:18:50 PM »

You should be fine then.  The only difference in the GPs of your motor's era and the F7As motor's in that same era is, as Jeff touched on, the fitting where the worm connects to the motor linkage.  On the F7As it is like a 4 point "cross" that has a plastic "cup" slide over it to complete the driveline.  The motor, mounts, brass flywheel length, will all be the same as the GPs. The GPs the linkage on the worm is a ball, just like at the other end on the brass flywheel.  Even if you end up with an F7A I don't think all is lost, bc that cross piece can be pulled off the worm gear and the ball style can be put in it's place.

Thanks for the scoop on the Tenma.  Good luck with the new one! Smiley 
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Len

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« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2014, 05:39:39 PM »

Depending on the loco/motor combination, you should be able to use either the 1.76" Ball-to-Pin [ATH49060] or 1.39" Ball-to-Pin [ATH48060] drive shafts. Measure your old shafts to be sure which to use. They're listed for specific locos, but as long as the lenth matches they'll work with the new motors in old 'Blue Box' locos.

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If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
DarG

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« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2014, 06:44:17 PM »

Depending on the loco/motor combination, you should be able to use either the 1.76" Ball-to-Pin [ATH49060] or 1.39" Ball-to-Pin [ATH48060] drive shafts. Measure your old shafts to be sure which to use. They're listed for specific locos, but as long as the lenth matches they'll work with the new motors in old 'Blue Box' locos.



So, if I'm understanding this, one end of those matches up with the connector on the flywheels of the newer engines that you linked earlier.  On the worm drive end, those don't look anything like what I have now.  Do those still connect to my existing worm drive somehow or do I need a part to replace on that end as well?
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jbrock27

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« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2014, 07:58:11 PM »

I have to say, that some folks, with all due respect, seem to be trying to make this difficult when it is not at all.
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DarG

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« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2014, 09:23:21 PM »

It's not a big deal.  I don't need to purchase a new motor.    I've found the bottom clip that was missing from the one motor.   All I'm missing for that one motor now is a brush spring.   I have 4 Athearn BB's, not 5 as I thought.   I know that 3 of the motors run.  I've yet to test the 4th.  Basically, I have the parts for all 4 trains minus a couple of bearings and that brush spring.  I also need some sideframes.   Other than that, I think I'm good.     
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jbrock27

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« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 09:19:33 AM »

I know, for some inexplicable reason, Len is fixated on your buying a new motor which is totally unnecessary.  These gold can Blue Box motors are great and damn near indestructible.  So much so, it is extremely difficult and unlikely you can go wrong getting a used one.

In that case Dar, I still say look for a GP model that you can cannibalize all the parts you need from, including the side frames.  They are plastic, no?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 09:22:19 AM by jbrock27 » Logged

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DarG

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« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2014, 09:59:10 AM »

Yep, the side frames are plastic.  The bottom pins are broken on most of the ones that I have.  A tiny dab of silicone sealant is what is currently holding the broken ones on.  It works and it's easy to clean up any residual from the outside of the trucks,  but a p.i.t.a to have to do over again if I have to take the trucks apart.   I think that Athearn still offers a couple of the side frames that would fit, they just may not be 100% accurate for the particular loco.   My track is, as someone here called it, the Skyline.  It's about 8 feet up in the air.  You can see if the side frames are missing but you can't see the details, so as long as they fit, they'll get the job done.

Good idea on just watching for deals on used BB's.   I gotta say that the one that I just got running is pretty darn quiet.  Performance at very slow speed isn't impressive but it's a quiet enough runner that I can hear the clickity-clack from the metal wheels on the rolling stock.   Very cool.  I had asked about changing to metal wheels, mostly to help with keeping the track clean.   I picked up one of those bulk Intermountain sets (100 axles).   Not exactly cheap and time will tell if it helps with the track.  But worth it for the more realistic sound alone. 
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jbrock27

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« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2014, 10:29:25 AM »

For holding truck frames to metal, I have used an adhesive called E-6000 found at craft stores like Micheal's and Jo Ann's Fabrics.  It is always not on sale, so using a common 40 or 50% off coupon makes it a real deal.  Easy to remove items as well if you end up having to.  This is also my "secret" for securing Athearn motor mounts to metal chassis.  I clean the motor mounts with soap and water, clean grease, oil, dirt, etc from chassis.  Even if those plastic motor mounts are deformed where they fit in the fuel tank holes, you can trim the deformed part away, put glue on the bottom of the mount and just use the nubs to line it up in the holes so the motor is straight in line.  Before doing that, I also clean the area of the chassis where the copper clip tabs make contact with the frame, using Emory paper.  Then before gluing, I make sure the tabs are pointing downward enough to make good contact with the frame.  I use the adhesive bc I have found the mounts themselves loosen over time and this effects contact.  The adhesive keeps things in place and in good contact.  When I have the trucks off, I also make sure to clean and degrease the area around the nub the truck fits on for good contact.  Some have proclaimed this is a week spot for contact-this is bc for some reason, people put grease or lube there-none is needed.  Once I clean, contact is good.  If painted over there, remove paint until bare metal is what makes contact with metal tab of truck.

You are definitely going to see vast improvement with the Intermountain wheel sets.  They are the best of the wheel sets I have bought.  1) they roll great and fit great, especially in Athearn trucks 2) you will see alot less cleaning of the track using them compared to plastic/delrin wheels Smiley
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Len

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« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2014, 11:30:42 AM »

I know, for some inexplicable reason, Len is fixated on your buying a new motor which is totally unnecessary.  These gold can Blue Box motors are great and damn near indestructible.  So much so, it is extremely difficult and unlikely you can go wrong getting a used one.

I wouldn't say "fixated". The first time I mentioned replacing the motor was when you said parts that are no longer available were missing from the one you had. I suggested the A-Line, which I've found far superior to the 'stock' Athearn motors, but you thought it too expensive.

So I poked around, and discovered Athearn offered complete motors for a lower price, but they had the new style drive shaft connectors in the flywheels.

Then you mention finding the missing bottom clip for the motor you had, and it became a moot issue.

After that, someone else mentioned you have to replace the worm gears if you change to the new motors, and I just pointed out that's not necessarily true. There are drive shafts available to go from the new motors to the old worm connectors. Just be sure to get the right length.

At any rate, I'm just trying to be helpful.

Len
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If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
jward


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« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2014, 12:13:18 PM »

Yep, the side frames are plastic.  The bottom pins are broken on most of the ones that I have.  A tiny dab of silicone sealant is what is currently holding the broken ones on.  It works and it's easy to clean up any residual from the outside of the trucks,  but a p.i.t.a to have to do over again if I have to take the trucks apart. 

since the wheelsets can be easily removed by removing the bottom gearbox cover, there should be no need to remove the plastic sideframes from the truck. the wheelsets have inside bearings similar to an amfleet coach, and they will lift right out with the cover plate removed.

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Jeffery S Ward Sr
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DarG

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« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2014, 01:52:38 PM »

Yep, the side frames are plastic.  The bottom pins are broken on most of the ones that I have.  A tiny dab of silicone sealant is what is currently holding the broken ones on.  It works and it's easy to clean up any residual from the outside of the trucks,  but a p.i.t.a to have to do over again if I have to take the trucks apart. 

since the wheelsets can be easily removed by removing the bottom gearbox cover, there should be no need to remove the plastic sideframes from the truck. the wheelsets have inside bearings similar to an amfleet coach, and they will lift right out with the cover plate removed.



True ... if they would hold on while doing so.  It's a temporary fix until I pick up some new side frames and I used just enough silicone to hold them on while the loco is running.  I could probably flick them off with a finger.
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DarG

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« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2014, 01:59:56 PM »

I know, for some inexplicable reason, Len is fixated on your buying a new motor which is totally unnecessary.  These gold can Blue Box motors are great and damn near indestructible.  So much so, it is extremely difficult and unlikely you can go wrong getting a used one.

I wouldn't say "fixated". The first time I mentioned replacing the motor was when you said parts that are no longer available were missing from the one you had. I suggested the A-Line, which I've found far superior to the 'stock' Athearn motors, but you thought it too expensive.

So I poked around, and discovered Athearn offered complete motors for a lower price, but they had the new style drive shaft connectors in the flywheels.

Then you mention finding the missing bottom clip for the motor you had, and it became a moot issue.

After that, someone else mentioned you have to replace the worm gears if you change to the new motors, and I just pointed out that's not necessarily true. There are drive shafts available to go from the new motors to the old worm connectors. Just be sure to get the right length.

At any rate, I'm just trying to be helpful.

Len


I know you are trying to be helpful and I appreciate it.  You are conflating two different posters comments, mine and Jbrock27's.   I appreciate the suggestions and while we are on the topic,  I am unclear as to how the driveshafts that you posted the model numbers to would work with my existing worm gears.   Going by the photos, neither end looks like it would work with the connections on my worm gears.   I may not currently need a new motor but I would still like to know what I would need to get one to work with what I have ... just in case.   Thanks.
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jbrock27

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« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2014, 08:17:18 PM »

I like that word, "conflated" Smiley  That's one you don't hear every day.

No, I really think fixated is the right word.  New is totally uncessary and just leds to having to modify or buy other parts, also completely uncessary in this situation.  And you're not helping Len when you jumble comments together.  You are not even addressing the right party.  It was Ward, Len, who started down the path of talking about worms, again not necessary.  So please direct your comment about that to him.

Like I said, some seem hell bent on making this into a real session when it need not be.

Dar, you said yourself, you know you don't need a new motor, just some parts.  This is not rocket science, really man.  I know you can do this w/o having another 5 pages worth of this Roll Eyes

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jbrock27

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« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2014, 08:21:39 PM »

I am really going to go out on a limb here and guess, that everything preeetttttty much looks like it does in these pics, which I should have provided like 2 days ago when I first offered:

http://www.mcor-nmra.org/Publications/Articles/Athearn_TuneUp.php
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