ONLINE
STORE
"ASK THE BACH MAN"
FORUM
PARTS, SERVICE,
& INFORMATION
CATALOGS AND
BROCHURES

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 11, 2020, 05:53:28 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Check out the photo gallery link above or >click here< to see photos of recently announced products!
+  Bachmann Message Board
|-+  Discussion Boards
| |-+  Large
| | |-+  Annie 4-6-0 Wear Problem
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Annie 4-6-0 Wear Problem  (Read 4630 times)
ldweng

View Profile
« on: August 05, 2015, 02:56:21 PM »

A volunteer group I am in has 2 Annies that get a lot of run time at a public garden railroad. They are about a year old and now have a similar problem. The knurled section on the rear bearings has moved in the frame and has machined the plastic. This is primarily on the rear (driven) axle and more severe on the right hand side (looking forward). They run okay, but the axles wobble quite a bit. The rest of the drive and siderods are fine. Does anybody have a fix for this problem?

If replacement of the drive is the only option; how do we keep it from happening again. These are Version 6 chassis.
Logged
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 06:51:42 PM »

ldweng,

There is really no fix that I know of that will hold up for very long, you could try to use the heavy duty epoxy. perhaps wedge some soft metal strips where the bearing meets the frame and using the epoxy to hold it in place.  The Bachmann 4-6-0's (and other brands)were never made for commercial use or for continuous or heavy running.  My old rr club maintained a continuously running layout at a Children's hospital.  Among other things we had to change wheels on rolling stock from metal to plastic, since it was cheaper to replace the wheels than the track which kept wearing out on curves at an incredible rate.   We started with about six steam engines of various brands and all had trouble after a year or less.  After making many replacements we changed over to mostly diesels which lasted a lot longer.  Even our diesels needed frequent repair.   Motor blocks on the steamers and diesels simply wore out with all the frequent running.  We got very good at rebuilding motor blocks, replacing motors and worn out bearings and wheels, but one thing for certain was that the diesels were far superior for heavy running.  Since the railroad was much loved by the patients, shutting it down was not an option, after one of the major manufacturer's of diesel's went out of business we could no longer find parts and motor blocks and eventually scrapped their locomotives.   The German made locomotives did not hold up any better than the other brands.  The one remaining major makers of diesels seem to be the best runners.

A critical aspect is lubrication.   The hospital layout rollin g stock and locomotives required a much shorter timeframe for re-lubrication.  The minimum was once a month, and often that was not enough, especially where the axles go through the bearings.   The hospital rr was indoors, but the wear is much worse on an outdoor layout running in the heat, rain and dirt.   Once the dirt or grit gets in a bearing it will either wear a bigger hole in the bearing center or lock up and the bearing would turn similar to what you describe.   We did have some luck using heavy two part epoxy, and or epoxy putty depending on the situation, and where possible plastic or metal reinforcements embedded in the epoxy helped.   Now on the hospital layout new locomotives are purchased each year or so, salvaging what is useful from the worn out ones to keep spares running as long as possible.

Give the epoxy a try, and possibly pick up a few replacement chassis from Bachmann when they are on sale.  When replacing a chassis, be sure from day one to lube the axle bearings every couple of days to hopefully.  I have mixed powdered graphite into lite oil and use a needle applicator to get it to the bearings.

Sounds like you have a fun group, and I wish you the best of luck with your repairs, but definitely recommend getting two extra locomotives to have when repairs are needed for other broken down locos.   The replacement chassis are version 5, but should last at least a year when frequently lubed.

Bill
Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
on30gn15


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 09:41:22 PM »

We need a next generation genius to come to the fore and pick up where Barry's Big Trains left off with his retirement.
Logged

When all esle fials, go run trains
Screw the Rivets, I'm building for Atmosphere!
later, Forrest
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 11:09:11 PM »

Forrest,

We had a Barry's reworked 4-6-0, unfortunately it did not fare any better than the stock units and was retired in less than a year.  Heavy continuous use seems to affect our large scale models in much the same way no matter the brand, except to say the diesels do better than the steamers when heavy continuous use is involved. 

Bill
Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
on30gn15


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 12:56:33 AM »

There's gotta be something which can be done; we just need the right person with the right knowledge to appear from the mists.
Logged

When all esle fials, go run trains
Screw the Rivets, I'm building for Atmosphere!
later, Forrest
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 09:43:07 AM »

After 9 years of maintaining the Children's hospital locomotives, I am convinced there is no real solution in situations when continuous running is involved.  I wish there were.   My old club was in the process of working out a deal with the hospital to rewire everything so that the trains would run only when a kid pushed a button. Because it is a commercial type situation they insisted that only licensed electricians be hired to do the wiring.  Since I left the area last November I do not know how things worked out.  The layout is an around the ceiling type.The layout runs about 18 hours per day, and hospital maintenance personnel were trained to keep an eye out for situations like unusual stops, derailments etc, and to switch from one train to another. There are two trains but only one runs at a time.  They try but often fail to catch thing right away. More than once  a motor block failed while the other one kept going an wore deep cuts into the track requiring it to be replaced.  As for the curved track wear when we used metal wheels on the rolling stock, you would not believe how badily the track got worn in just six months.  Picture a rail worn down to the thickness of the edge of a nickel!!

We often talked about what might happen to our auto's if we ran them continuously like we did the trains.  We figured if we drove at 40 MPH for 18 hours a day we would put on 262 thousand miles per year. When applying the math to the trains we were no longer surprised by the wear and tear on them. 

This is the second report of a problem involving the bearings on an Annie version six.  I have never seen any reports of bearings on the version 5 chassis.  As for my own version six ANNie, I have had no problems with the bearings, but do keep them lubed with my graphite/oil mix, but I do not run it anywhere near the amount of time that a public display would require.

ldweng, what ever repair method you use, please let us know what worked or did not work.  I have been thinking that it might be best if the locos were run in the opposite direction to equalize the wear since you indicate that the wear is not equal.  Also if you do a chassis replacement, perhaps consider using epoxy on the joints where the bearings meet the frame before you even run the loco, as a preventive. At the same time lube both sides where the axles go thru the bearings using lite oil and a puff of graphite.

Again good luck!

Bill
Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Chuck N

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 02:49:54 PM »

I strongly second Bill's suggestion about turning the engine around and running it in the opposite direction.  This will even out the wear.  I would guess that you would get 50 to 100 % more run time before you have to replace the motor block.  This also applies to the cars, especially if you are running with plastic wheels.

Chuck
Logged
punkin

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 11:23:19 PM »

I think I know what you're talking about. Mine when new only had a few hours of run time and the brass bearing/carrier bit was turning inside the plastic section and was chewing up the plastic. Eventually it made quite a bit of noise and became rather floppy. I sent it back because it was still under warranty. The shipping is quite expensive. When the train came back it didn't have the metal gears and didn't have the newer front truck.

I was told that this was how they fixed the newer trains and that it would run very well for a very long time. I was told that regular lubrication was essential. This evening I took the replacement train off the track for lubrication. It's been running nicely and quietly for a month or so. The plastic is being worn down and there is plastic inside again. I am worried that this won't last.

My estimation is that after about 4 returns for repairs I would have paid for a new train in shipping. I very much like the train but I worry about the durability. I run mine inside only and I have a very simple track. I don't run it fast. I have one passenger car and one caboose. It is also a 4-6-0 anniversary.
Logged

I can type my handle with one hand.
on30gn15


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 09:53:15 PM »

I need to look up the dates on Annie versions: bought the SPC road number 21 in fall of 2009. Attractive thing with the red and silver.
Logged

When all esle fials, go run trains
Screw the Rivets, I'm building for Atmosphere!
later, Forrest
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 10:09:07 PM »

Yeah, that is a nice paint scheme!!!   It came out in 2000 when the Annies were first introduced.  Part of the beginning of the Version 5 chassis that has stood up so well.  Have fun with it.

Bill
Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
on30gn15


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 10:25:39 PM »

Ah, thanks.
After about 3 applications of Annie pilot to the tailbone, he stayed out of the tunnel when train was running on the balcony.  Grin
Logged

When all esle fials, go run trains
Screw the Rivets, I'm building for Atmosphere!
later, Forrest
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 11:12:58 PM »

 Grin Cool Cheesy
Logged

Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!