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February 25, 2020, 11:09:45 AM
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Author Topic: Climax listed on Trainworld as "New Release"  (Read 611 times)
mickeykelley

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« on: December 20, 2019, 05:59:41 PM »

The Trainworld site lists the Climax as "New Release". Is there a new release of the Climax?  I know there was an original release, which I got, then a second release with all the DCC stuff, which I also bought.  Is this a new 3rd edition or just some left over stock, or just new road names?
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Joe Zullo

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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2019, 08:00:12 AM »

It is a closeout of the second release. I grabbed one at the fantastic price they offered. It is one fine loco!

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mickeykelley

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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2019, 11:06:15 PM »

Have one and considering a second at that price.  Was just curious if it was really a "new" release.
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Rocket_Scientist

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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2019, 09:14:40 PM »

My Climax arrived just in time yesterday from Trainworld to run around the Christmas layout. Opened for inspection but not yet run, but this is one impressive locomotive. That bunker is chock full of electronics. Since I run DC only, I guess the train gods were smiling on me Monday when I won a NIB Soundtraxx Sierra sound system FOR THE CLIMAX. Looks like the only issue that may come up for the install is making room for the battery pack (5 cell NiMh 6V battery pack to replace what I know is a completely dried out lead acid gel cell still packed with the Sierra sound system). I think if I cut off the mounting bosses for the cooling fan on top of the coal bunker it just may fit but won't know until the sierra board and battery pack get here later this week.
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Greg Elmassian


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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2020, 09:38:14 PM »

Remember the Sierra "charging system" expects a gel cell, both in charging type and voltage. You NiMih pack matches neither.

Does not mean it won't work for a while before the batteries are damaged...

Greg
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Rocket_Scientist

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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2020, 02:57:46 AM »

Greg,
I do electronic power systems (on spacecraft) for a living and that includes the Solar arrays and battery charging systems and the associated battery packs. The chemistry of those batteries has evolved over the last 30 years from NiCads, Nickle Hydrogen, NiMh to finally LiION.  No offense but I've seen postings like yours over the years about stuff like this with NO technical justification as to why "you can't do it", so time to put some of those myths to rest.

 The Sierra system doesn't "expect" anything as far as the battery is concerned. It puts out a charging voltage (just a bit higher than the battery's rated voltage) once track voltage exceeds 6 volts (actually about 8 Volts) at a fixed charging current. Since the original Sierra battery was rated 6V @ 500mAh the Sierra system has a pretty low max charging current (typically <50mA....I've measured it) which is why you'd have to charge on track voltage for almost 10 hours with the original battery. Those Gel Cell Batteries were not very tolerant of high charging currents and the Sountraxx charging circuit is pretty basic.

The NiMh battery packs I've installed in all 7 of my locos with Sountraxx systems are all 6 Volts (perfect match with the Gel Cell) with current ratings from 1700mAh to 2500mAh (well above the capacity of the original). Once a NiHm battery is "full" the Sierra system could only provide at MOST a slight trickle charging current IF I was constantly running at full throttle which I don't. Also of note is the fact that the Sierras output voltage to the battery really isn't regulated to any certain voltage but since the current is limited, once that current limit is reached, the input voltage to the battery drops to just above the batteries rated voltage. Also keep in mind the the current rating of the battery pack only tells you how much current the pack can SUPPLY over a given time frame, NOT how much current is actually being drawn by the load. There is NO WAY POSSIBLE that the Sierra board could damage a NiMH battery or vice versa.....ever. The high capacity batteries that I use will run that sound board all day long, and if you run at high volume, the discharge current from the battery will exceed the charging current from the Sierra board by a fair margin...IE: battery isn't charging. I have the optional charging jack and use a couple of battery chargers with selectable 100mA or 300mA charge rates. I never run my batteries to depletion but at the higher charging rate it'll still take 5 to 6 hours for a full charge on my biggest batteries. At MOST the Sierra system will only trickle charge a high capacity NiMh battery pack.

Many people have used NiMh batteries as replacement for that Gel Cell with zero issues. There's still an ebay seller that sells a replacement "quick charge" NiCad battery pack though NiCads are are terrible substitute because of their memory effect. The one exception to all this are LiION batteries. Those packs require "balanced" charging circuits.....the individual cells are charged and monitored to prevent reverse current flow through any individual cell......they tend tend to blow up if that happens. My oldest NiMh batteries are now 15 years old and have not exhibited any appreciable reduction in capacity since I keep them in a good state of charge. I don't run my stuff all year but I do put them on the charger at least once every 60 days when not in use. Now due to the limited space inside the Climax coal bunker I have just enough room to mount the Sierra board on top of the DCC "jumper board" but not enough room for a 5 cell AA NiMh battery pack under the coal load so i'm going with a 6V 300mA "stick" battery under the coal load which solves my clearance issue. I would have liked more capacity from the battery but again i'd have to run at very high volume for an extended amount of time for it to be an issue.
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Greg Elmassian


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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2020, 02:45:57 AM »

I won't debate you at length, but the fact that you state nicads have memory effect means you are about 1/2 way to deserving the title rocket scientist.

You do make a good point that 5 cells should be the same nominal voltage, but the charge characteristics are different between all the chemistries listed.

True, at a very low trickle charge almost nothing happens.... but then the sound unit would not work well if the batteries were discharged, and so if you make the condition the batteries are fully charged when starting to use the loco, then overcharging can happen, your analysis presumes the battery is not fully charged... so if you don't need it, then leave it out.

Come back when you can fully explain the myth of memory and I'll give you the respect due a real rocket scientist deserves.

Greg
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PennsyGuy

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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2020, 08:45:30 PM »

Thanks for the post in regards to this great deal at Trainworld for the Climax.  Just received mine last Friday and spent yesterday evening lubricating everything per the instructions.  I seem to have one rod that is not function correctly that sits directly above the 45 degree side rode. 

Anybody have any suggestions on how to get that moving like it supposed to.  The other side works well and there is no binding that I can see causing it not to move.  Tried to attach picture but keep getting an error,

Thanks,
Tim
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Joe Zullo

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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 10:18:16 PM »

Tim,
This loco is so detailed it has a WORKING Johnson bar. Open the engineer's front door and make sure the Johnson bar is not in neutral. If it is the valve rods will not move.
Pull it up and move it forward to engage the eccentric rods driven by the gear box. This could be why your valve rods are not moving.  

edit: I missed the part that said one side was working. In that case make sure the eccentric rods for that side are in fact riding on the eccentrics.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:36:03 PM by Joe Zullo » Logged
PennsyGuy

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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2020, 10:54:32 PM »

Thanks Joe.  That did the trick.
As long as I donít push it all the way forward it works on both sides.
Leaving it about half way seems to keep them both running about the
Same cycle rate.  That really is a cool feature. 

Tim
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