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Author Topic: logging engines  (Read 481 times)
Len

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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2020, 02:23:54 PM »

I believe Harold Minky was doing Sn3 in 1:55 scale, which can operate on HO track. Which is one of the reason the Mantua 2-6-6-2 makes a good starting point for an Sn3 locomotive. Sn3 in 1:64 scale has a narrower track gauge, so track would pretty much have to be hand laid.

Len
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Trainman203

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« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2020, 03:07:21 PM »

Someone with better math skills tell me.  At true 1/64 scale, how many scale inches wide is HO track?   I believe it to be 40 but my math skills dried up years ago.
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Modeling the New Iberia and Northern 1945
Len

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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2020, 04:09:45 PM »

At 1/64 scale the track gauge would be 14.3 mm or 0.5629921 in.

1/64 = 0.015625, so 0.5629921"/0.015625 = 36.0314944", call it 36" for practical purposes.

And there's not a lot of that size track available commercially.

Standard gauge HO track, 16,5mm (0.649606299213 in.) gauge. In 1/64 scale would be 0.649606299213"/0.015625 = 41.574803149632" or pretty close to 42".

Len
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Trainman203

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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2020, 04:44:40 PM »

At some point in time I saw photos of Shays going to a 42 gauge railroad, maybe down in South America.

Id rather model a 42 gauge line than a 30 gauge one.  I love the On30 stuff the Bach Man has offered over the years but those wide engines on that narrow little 30 gauge track always made me think of a circus bear riding a bicycle.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 04:49:53 PM by Trainman203 » Logged

Modeling the New Iberia and Northern 1945
JDLX

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« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2020, 01:34:27 PM »

I disagree on the demand part, the lumber industry always has been a popular model subject, and Bachmann in particular hasn't seemed to have many problems selling their geared steam locomotives when they make them available.  And unless someone has them unreasonably priced brass and plastic logging locomotives have no trouble selling on the auction sites.

In order to understand geared steam locomotives one really has to understand the logging industry and how it operated, which has been alluded to a time or two on this thread.  Sawmilling had mostly been a local industry until the early 1800s, when lumber demands shot up as cities started expanding.  The development of the railroad network really allowed for the economical transport of lumber long distances, and sawmill sizes progressively grew to meet demand.  The problem this creates is that a sawmill of any size will very shortly cut through all the immediately available timber, which means that logs either have to be hauled over ever increasing distances or the sawmill has to frequently move.  Relocating sawmills became increasingly difficult as they transitioned into large industrial facilities, and so the industry had to develop ways to economically move logs over ever increasing distances.  It's no coincidence that the cradle of the modern sawmill industry lay in the Great Lakes region, as water provided the best way of moving logs, either floating across lakes or in the great "log drives" down rivers.  This only works for as long as the woods and the mill are on contiguous waterways.  Animals- usually oxen or horses- provided the next best way to move logs, but log size and friction limited the length of such moves, which led to greased skidways and then primitive animal powered tramways, and then in 1876 a southern Michigan logger built what is generally credited to be the first logging railroad. 

Logging railroads faced several problems.  Railroads always have been incredibly expensive to build, equip, and maintain, and generally the costs associated with logging railroads had to be charged as part of an operation's logging expense and would have to be recaptured with lumber sales as logging railroads rarely produced any other revenues for their owners.  This translated into some of the cheapest railroads an operation could get away with building- rudimentary at best engineering, ties laid directly on the ground, little to no ballast, a minimum of earthwork or grading, and light rail.  This in turn limited the size and weight of equipment operating on these roads, and most mainline equipment could not tolerate lightly built trackwork or steep grades found on most logging railroads.  Ephraim Shay solved these problems when he invented the locomotive that would be named after him, and its success prompted others to invent the Climax and Heisler and a few other less successful variations.  The geared engines essentially operated in the equivalent of a car's first gear all the time, and the short wheelbases of the powered trucks made them adept at negotiating the roughly built trackage.  These were the considerations at play that dictated speeds, not keeping the logs on the cars as stated.  Logging railroads expected logs to roll off cars, and almost every operation would run a special train usually towards the end of each season to pick up all the logs that prematurely rolled off the cars along the line.  Most log flats had some sort of cheese block to prevent logs from rolling off cars, and chained log loads to the cars as well.  By the later years log bunks became standard equipment on almost all log cars. 

However, logging railroads tended to grow along with the industry, and by the early 1900s the ever increasing distances between the woods and the mills forced logging railroads to develop well built heavy use mainlines to bridge that distance.  Geared steam locomotives were simply way too slow to be used on those operations, and most larger railroads tended to start using them only on the temporary spur line trackage built into the woods while the 60- to 90- ton 2-8-0s, 2-6-2s. and 2-8-2s would handle the mainline hauls.  A number of the larger operations simply got rid of their geared steam altogether and found it cheaper to build the logging spurs to a high enough standard to support the lighter rod locomotives. 







Hopefully the images come through okay. 

Trucks largely replaced spur line logging starting in the late 1930s, with the conversion complete essentially by the late 1950s.  Of course, most operations found it cheaper just to keep the logs on the trucks once there for the entire haul to the mill, and by the late 1950s/early 1960s the only logging railroads really left were a few mainline hauls where enough timber existed in one place to keep the railroad cost competitive with trucks and publicly financed highways.

 

When it comes to logging modeling, the most popular form seems to be the earlier era, with a geared steam locomotive or two hauling a few carloads of logs to a mill so small that its production would have taken many days to fill a standard gauge boxcar and would have never been able to afford a logging railroad in the first place, but hey, they look cool in model form.

Lastly, while most Shays and geared steam were built to either standard of 36" gauge, there were some built to oddball gauges, a few for domestic use and some for export.  Perhaps one of the more unusual gauges were four two-truck Heislers built to 45-1/4" gauge, used on the Northern Redwood Lumber Company logging railroad out of North Fork (later Korbel), California, on the northwest coast in the redwoods. m All were later rebuilt to standard gauge.     

I hope this helps. 

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV   
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Trainman203

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« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2020, 07:31:45 PM »

That is a fine summation, well done.
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Modeling the New Iberia and Northern 1945
rich1998

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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2020, 12:09:29 PM »

Found this a few year5s ago. Used in Maine I believe. Google the loco for more info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFxXqr-6Sdc

Rich
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Terry Toenges


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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2020, 12:19:04 PM »

That is neat with the steerer and the whistle blower up front.
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Feel like a Mogul.
rich1998

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« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2020, 12:45:16 PM »

Power steering. Driver puts all his power into steering.

Rich
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graywolf

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« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2020, 04:15:33 PM »

Go to the video on Youtube that Rich sent and then continue on to a video that shows a parade of steam vehicles. Sorry I just checked and it seems the videos on Youtube don't repeat the same pattern I saw.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 04:23:24 PM by graywolf » Logged
rich1998

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« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2020, 07:17:36 PM »

You are correct You Tube play with the Videos. Owned by Google I think.

Rich
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