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Author Topic: Future suggestions/predictions thread  (Read 10136 times)
Falcon the 2nd


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« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2021, 03:10:30 PM »

Falcon the 2nd, I'm not sure what you specifically you collect, but you are not the first to state that we should focus on Edward in N Scale instead of Large. My question to all who have this opinion is why is that even a position one would take? If there is a character who would sell well in all ranges, let them be released in all scales.

I think what Falcon was going for in his post (and correct me if I'm wrong), is that Edward is already a really popular request in N scale and seems to be on top of everyone's lists and the range is still fairly new.  The range was announced just over two years ago, and already they're on their fourth new engine tooling.  The models are smaller and a lot less expensive to produce, thus making the possibility of engines like Edward or possibly Gordon a lot more likely in that range in the near future since there are a lot less price restrictions with N scale.  Large scale on the other hand seems to be a market that Bachmann's been a lot more mindful of in general when introducing newer products and fans seemed to have caught onto this over time with recent announcements being recolors of rolling stock and engine recolors like Paxton and Thomas and Percy with DCC and sound.  This track record is why fans are mostly vouching for/predicting additions like Mavis and the LBSC Thomas more often than Edward. It's also really saying something how Bachmann jumped on the opportunity to make Paxton while working on Diesel, with both models now on their way to Bachmann's warehouse.  Even with the red coaches announcement, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bachmann has plans to release Toby's museum coaches in large scale at some point too.

People also enjoy the speculation because it's fun sharing similar ideas and advocating for other ranges.  Yes it's true that some Thomas fans don't even collect the large scale range, but I think fans like to look at that range as a range they'd like to get into in the future when they're able to make the room/space for the large scale models.  I don't collect large scale either, but if I ever move out of my apartment and afford a house that has a yard with enough room to run large scale trains on an outdoor railroad, the large scale Thomas models will most likely be the first purchases I'll be making.  So unless if fans are running around making unpopular requests for the sake of being a troll like advocating Nia and Rebecca while not even collecting the range (which has happened before), then I don't really see anything wrong with fans discussing ideas for scales that they don't even collect at this time.

That's exactly what I meant with Edward - he is both a more logically and financially suitable option for a new N Scale engine at the moment than Large Scale. Don't get me wrong, a Large Scale version of the character would still be a very good addition to the respective range someday, but an N Scale version just feels more likely for now and I think it is best to keep pushing for that option until it is eventually made.

Large Scale, as a whole, is a range that requires careful consideration with its additions since it has more limits than most other scales on the market. It's become easier for fans to take notice of its production pattern(s) than the other ranges and it's also been easier to make guesses for its future products. That being said, certain ideas like LBSC Thomas and Toby's Museum Coaches are easy, reasonable guesses to make based on the range's general limits and release history.

I've actually been split on collecting Large Scale for quite some time now. It's certainly one of the coolest Thomas toy lines out there for the novelty of owning large versions of certain characters, but both space and price barriers are sensitive factors to the average consumer.

However, I really do enjoy speculating about future products and finding logic in potential options, regardless of whether I own a particular scale. In a similar sense, I also don't own anything in Narrow Gauge, but I still dearly hope for Sir Handel for the same reasons that many others do. Just because I don't own anything in Large Scale for the moment doesn't mean I can't have a say on what its future offerings may be. It's okay to for one to speculate about a lineup they don't own anything for, as long as they are able to make logic behind their guesses.

Nonetheless, I would love to have a Large Scale collection with the items of my liking someday. I was hoping for some time that the Red Coaches would eventually be announced and now I eagerly await the day that Mavis comes along.
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Wishlists:
HO Scale - Stepney, Tar Tanker
Narrow Gauge - Sir Handel
N Scale - Edward, Mavis, Henrietta, Milk Tanker, Brake Van
jbray

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« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2021, 05:20:17 PM »

Large scale on the other hand seems to be a market that Bachmann's been a lot more mindful of in general when introducing newer products and fans seemed to have caught onto this over time with recent announcements being recolors of rolling stock and engine recolors like Paxton and Thomas and Percy with DCC and sound.  This track record is why fans are mostly vouching for/predicting additions like Mavis and the LBSC Thomas more often than Edward.

Bachmann is mindful because of the economic realities of large scale having a larger (no pun) disparity in value of depth. What I am trying to impart to those of you working in smaller scales is that each new locomotive diminishes the sell-thru of the next engine released because very few people are going to own the whole line because of how the product line fits into the market for general large scale products*, it not being practically affordable and/or manageable. Without vast wealth, one cannot afford the product nor the space to store it let alone run it so many modelers in the scale have to be choosy about what they can bring into their collection. Letís look at the cost of having an established basic set up for two running engines while owning all the engines (all prices are Bachmannís list for simplicity):
  • All eight engines - $2,596
  • Annie, Clarabel, and Emilyís Coaches - $460
  • The two troublesome trucks - $218
  • Two tankers, two box vans, and the spiteful break van $495
  • 4í and 5í diameter brass curved track (two full circles) - $398
  • Two switches to connect the loops - $118
  • Box of 12 straights to fill in ovals and extend them based upon desired train length (Thomas, Annie, and Clarabelle roughly fit on three pieces of 1í straight track) - $169
  • Bachmann DC power supply and large scale track clips - $117.50
  • TOTAL: $4571.50 at list price (~£3,329).

That's just for two small parallel ovals for two trains at most (because the power supply is too small). Less is more in large scale because your money only gets you so far. If you had $10k (~£7,260 Ė also a really low number for what may be needed) to spend total over time, would you rather have the steam team and their notable trains or have it be filled with cost effective characters like Paxton, Sidney, Splatter, Dodge, ĎArry, and Burt? If you can spend $300-500 on an engine, youíre going to want it to be an engine like Edward rather than both Bill and Ben because itís what you wanted more in the first place. Bachmann basically has two ways to deal with diminishing sales over the line: they can go for high sell-thru on the products they pick or lowest cost of production. Would you rather have recolors of the existing 8 models so that you have two of each instead of one for each of the steam team? Probably not for the cost, and definitely not if you had to figure out where to store them with limited space. The thing with the DCC releases is that they served as replacements. If you owned a standard DC model, you could sell it if you needed and get the DCC one instead. LSBC Thomas and Origin James do not replace the normal model but are in addition to meaning you have to accommodate the cost and space for a duplicate. Itís easier to justify if you add it to a bin that fits under your table, itís another if your pure recolors take up ~1126 cubic inches (~0.0185 cubic meters) just for two locomotives.  

It's also really saying something how Bachmann jumped on the opportunity to make Paxton while working on Diesel, with both models now on their way to Bachmann's warehouse.  Even with the red coaches announcement, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bachmann has plans to release Toby's museum coaches in large scale at some point too.

I donít begrudge Bachmann turning Diesel (a popular main or secondary character depending on your view) into an additional model like Paxton despite his relative value to the series (tertiary) as a whole because they made the chassis for the former, not the latter and are capitalizing on it. I also see Tobyís coaches as a future item given that they have no plans to make Henrietta and would like Toby to have a defined train. Would I prefer if they made Henrietta in such a way that they could also make Hannah to achieve most value, yes, but rolling stock is different on its own diminishing value so itís practical to skip it for individual collections and not have that end the line as a whole.

People also enjoy the speculation because it's fun sharing similar ideas and advocating for other ranges.  Yes it's true that some Thomas fans don't even collect the large scale range, but I think fans like to look at that range as a range they'd like to get into in the future when they're able to make the room/space for the large scale models.  I don't collect large scale either, but if I ever move out of my apartment and afford a house that has a yard with enough room to run large scale trains on an outdoor railroad, the large scale Thomas models will most likely be the first purchases I'll be making.  So unless if fans are running around making unpopular requests for the sake of being a troll like advocating Nia and Rebecca while not even collecting the range (which has happened before), then I don't really see anything wrong with fans discussing ideas for scales that they don't even collect at this time.

Thatís the thing though, itís not the people having fun or advocating for a future self, itís them advocating from a place of ignorance (literally, not as a pejorative) because theyíre applying the principles of their scale as though they are equal. Making Bill and Ben dilutes the finite range of the large scale line so when someone goes:

I agree that Edward should definitely be added to the large scale but Bill and Ben would be a commercially sensible decision, given it would have 2 characters, with 2 different liveries available, for the price of one lot of tooling.

Thatís someone advocating for a secondary character they wonít ever own over a main character more current collectors of the range want. Your voice is drowning out ours just as if a bunch of Nia stans came in and overwhelmed your voice. Weíre allowed to voice that opinion as well.

That's exactly what I meant with Edward - he is both a more logically and financially suitable option for a new N Scale engine at the moment than Large Scale. Don't get me wrong, a Large Scale version of the character would still be a very good addition to the respective range someday, but an N Scale version just feels more likely for now and I think it is best to keep pushing for that option until it is eventually made.

This came in while I was drafting this so apologies that itís being tagged on the end. What I donít understand is the opposition created by this ďlogicĒ. Bachmann have dollars to put into the large scale line as evidenced by two new engines and five (!) new rolling stock toolings. N scale has its own justifiable dollars. Money allocated to either is meant to be recouped by that specific line not the others. Said more plainly, the money for an N scale Bachmann Edward would not be stolen by making a Large Scale tooling at the same time because both would be made with the understanding that they will earn a profit for the company. Bachmann is not going to make a product it does not think it can recover the cost on and use another line to cover it. It will, however, use dollars to cover an incorrect projection, but thatís different and not really utilized in how products are chosen to be made. The decisions about what tooling may be made come from the sales projections inside of respective lines (with probable comparisons made between lines such as we sold X amount of HO Thomas models and Y amount of Large scale Thomas Models. If we sold Z amount of HO Edward models, solve for A if A = Large Scale Edward Models). Even more plainly, N scale has its own production budget and large scale has its own production budget. Neither steals from the other to get products made, so the presented logic is built on an incorrect assumption.

Large Scale, as a whole, is a range that requires careful consideration with its additions since it has more limits than most other scales on the market. It's become easier for fans to take notice of its production pattern(s) than the other ranges and it's also been easier to make guesses for its future products. That being said, certain ideas like LBSC Thomas and Toby's Museum Coaches are easy, reasonable guesses to make based on the range's general limits and release history.

That careful consideration comes from a different space than the other scales though. Iím going to rephrase an example I gave above to hopefully shed more light. Let's work with the assumption** The ruling assumption is that large scale will only ever have twelve engines including the eight we have currently. What four engines should complete the line? This doesnít count an updated rerelease like a plug and play version or the DCC models. Itís unique characters or pure recolors only. Would you choose LBSC Thomas, Bill, Ben, and Mavis? Or would that change your decision? It is far from a given that there will even be four additional engines in the line and I would hate for those four to be the end when I could have gotten Edward, Duck, or even Gordon or Henry (unrealistic as that may be due to a hinged chassis). As it stands, Diesel, and especially Paxton, are nice to haves. Sell-thru vs production cost. The latter is a race to the bottom when consumer resources are finite and all of the suggestions I see made as the ďreasonableĒ path are nice to haves with less appeal to purchase.

*Thomas Large Scale modelers fall into a few categories: The largest of these are people who are middle-aged to retiree aged with enough disposable income and space to set up a nice layout and have Thomas, Annie, and Clarabel as a showpiece for visiting children and or grandchildren. Thereís a subset of these modelers who may own one or two additional engines, usually Percy and/or James, so that Thomas can have ďfriendsĒ (this is more likely in the grandchildren category). Next are newer parents who bought a starter set as an ďinĒ to the hobby and they may have more of the line or even the complete line but may also sell them off once their kids grow up. Beyond that are hobbyists who grew up with the series and are happy to collect the line alone or in addition to whatever other modeling they do. The final major category are parents who may have gotten a starter set for their kids but didnít go further (or much further). This last category has been snatched away by Lionelís ďReady to PlayĒ set that does everything DCCís Bachmann Thomas did and more for significantly cheaper (although it is not compatible with other track and g-scale equipment) which is probably 100% why the starter sets are gone.

**Edited the last paragraph (pre-footnotes) for clarity of probable exemplar as opposed to a presentation of "fact" as this was not what was intended.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 11:05:33 PM by jbray » Logged
Artfull Dodger

Aspie proud!


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« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2021, 06:07:42 PM »

I would love to see devious Diesel made in the large scale line. It would appeal to both the Thomas fans and others that crave a ready to run class 08 shunting diesel for UK themed layouts.  I would add to that, making the various buildings as easy to assembly kits in large scale.  The HO line has much more for it in this regard.  How about some love for the large scale folk, but please make the buildings out of proper UV resistant plastic for outdoor use as well as indoors. 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 06:11:13 PM by Artfull Dodger » Logged

Silly NT's.....I have Asperger's Syndrome!
TrainFan97


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« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2021, 12:56:54 AM »

I would love to see devious Diesel made in the large scale line. It would appeal to both the Thomas fans and others that crave a ready to run class 08 shunting diesel for UK themed layouts.  I would add to that, making the various buildings as easy to assembly kits in large scale.  The HO line has much more for it in this regard.  How about some love for the large scale folk, but please make the buildings out of proper UV resistant plastic for outdoor use as well as indoors. 

Are you not aware that Large Scale Diesel is already almost here?
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My wishlist for HO Scale: Stepney, BoCo, Sidney, Norman, Porter, and Timothy.
My wishlist for N Scale: Gordon, Henry, Edward, and Diesel.
Mulfred100

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« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2021, 08:26:14 AM »

In response to Jbray, that's the whole point of this thread to Speculate and throw ideas around to see what may or may not be made. I'm a firm believer especially over the last few years with recent announcements like HO Daisy and Ryan that Bachmsnn actually value our opinions and listen to us fans especially on forums like this. Yes there's always out there ideas or ideas that not everyone agrees with I.e myself and Diesel 10. He's been a talking point for a number of years on here on and off, I personally wouldn't buy him but that doesn't mean I disrespect anyone who does advocate for him being released. This fourm is designed to be a talking point. I don't collect N scale but does that mean my opinion is invalid? No because no ones opinions are invalid on here. Regardless of the scale of modeller you are or what you collect. Theres also always that swaying factor "when a character or piece of rolling stock is released that gets someone interested in that scale of modelling" Large Scale is starting to become a bit more of a marketable place for Thomas fans now especially older ones with the room to model. Especially now people are making things like Custom faces or adding little extra details on to models. You just have too look at some of the incredible work people have done on twitter to see that. Is large scale expensive? Yes. Does everyone model in large scale? No. Are there some unrealistical ideas out there? Yes. But that doesn't mean we can not talk or discuss them on here. As I said previously Bachmann listens to us fans, especially on here. You just need to click through some of the prediction threads off previous years and then look at that years announcements to see that. I'm a firm believer that HO Daisy and Ryan wouldn't be making their way into the range if it wasn't for threads and people talking on here. Same with Large Scale Diesel. Diesel was originally set to come out a few years back and subsequently "cancelled" but Bachmann brought him back along with Paxton offering a new life line to a range some people wrote off as dead. My over all point is this thread is designed to be full of speculation and ideas of what could be in the future. Its part of the fourm and has been so for many many years now.
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Falcon the 2nd


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« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2021, 01:27:22 PM »

In response to Jbray, that's the whole point of this thread to Speculate and throw ideas around to see what may or may not be made. I'm a firm believer especially over the last few years with recent announcements like HO Daisy and Ryan that Bachmsnn actually value our opinions and listen to us fans especially on forums like this. Yes there's always out there ideas or ideas that not everyone agrees with I.e myself and Diesel 10. He's been a talking point for a number of years on here on and off, I personally wouldn't buy him but that doesn't mean I disrespect anyone who does advocate for him being released. This fourm is designed to be a talking point. I don't collect N scale but does that mean my opinion is invalid? No because no ones opinions are invalid on here. Regardless of the scale of modeller you are or what you collect. Theres also always that swaying factor "when a character or piece of rolling stock is released that gets someone interested in that scale of modelling" Large Scale is starting to become a bit more of a marketable place for Thomas fans now especially older ones with the room to model. Especially now people are making things like Custom faces or adding little extra details on to models. You just have too look at some of the incredible work people have done on twitter to see that. Is large scale expensive? Yes. Does everyone model in large scale? No. Are there some unrealistical ideas out there? Yes. But that doesn't mean we can not talk or discuss them on here. As I said previously Bachmann listens to us fans, especially on here. You just need to click through some of the prediction threads off previous years and then look at that years announcements to see that. I'm a firm believer that HO Daisy and Ryan wouldn't be making their way into the range if it wasn't for threads and people talking on here. Same with Large Scale Diesel. Diesel was originally set to come out a few years back and subsequently "cancelled" but Bachmann brought him back along with Paxton offering a new life line to a range some people wrote off as dead. My over all point is this thread is designed to be full of speculation and ideas of what could be in the future. Its part of the fourm and has been so for many many years now.

I agree with Mulfred on this post. There's nothing wrong at all with speculating about a toy line that you may or may not own, and there's also nothing wrong with having different input than someone else, as long as you remain respectful to others about it and keep your response both civil and fair in length. I will admit that the two responses I got from that particular user were a lot heavier than I anticipated and it felt like they took things personally, which was not my intention from the initial post. The most that I wanted to do was try starting conversation with forum users after a fair period of activity, but that seemed to be spoiled with the borderline biased response that I got. Until the next time someone posts about a particular idea, I think it is best to keep in mind that most input shared by users is usually just their opinion and not everything they say is hard fact, so it's best to not treat every bit of their input as such.

I also get a good feeling that the forums have been very helpful for Bachmann with determining at least some of their future products in recent years. Like Mulfred said, HO Scale Daisy and Ryan probably would not have been announced if it weren't for the fans sharing their input on forums. The same goes for other products like N Scale James and Toby, and even the Large Scale Red Coaches. There's only so much that fans can say on social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter, so the forums serve as a great way to talk about product ideas more openly and (by extension) directly to Bachmann's Thomas team. Feedback and input from fans matters a lot, and it's a value that has been lost rapidly among toy companies over the last several years. Even if not every announcement Bachmann makes is ideal to the fans, it's helpful to have the forums so the team behind their Thomas products can get a good sense on what the fans want.
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Wishlists:
HO Scale - Stepney, Tar Tanker
Narrow Gauge - Sir Handel
N Scale - Edward, Mavis, Henrietta, Milk Tanker, Brake Van
JLK2707

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« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2021, 11:05:53 PM »

I just agree! Smiley
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jbray

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« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2021, 04:05:08 PM »

In response to Jbray, that's the whole point of this thread to Speculate and throw ideas around to see what may or may not be made. I'm a firm believer especially over the last few years with recent announcements like HO Daisy and Ryan that Bachmsnn actually value our opinions and listen to us fans especially on forums like this. Yes there's always out there ideas or ideas that not everyone agrees with I.e myself and Diesel 10. He's been a talking point for a number of years on here on and off, I personally wouldn't buy him but that doesn't mean I disrespect anyone who does advocate for him being released. This fourm is designed to be a talking point. I don't collect N scale but does that mean my opinion is invalid? No because no ones opinions are invalid on here. Regardless of the scale of modeller you are or what you collect. Theres also always that swaying factor "when a character or piece of rolling stock is released that gets someone interested in that scale of modelling" Large Scale is starting to become a bit more of a marketable place for Thomas fans now especially older ones with the room to model. Especially now people are making things like Custom faces or adding little extra details on to models. You just have too look at some of the incredible work people have done on twitter to see that. Is large scale expensive? Yes. Does everyone model in large scale? No. Are there some unrealistical ideas out there? Yes. But that doesn't mean we can not talk or discuss them on here. As I said previously Bachmann listens to us fans, especially on here. You just need to click through some of the prediction threads off previous years and then look at that years announcements to see that. I'm a firm believer that HO Daisy and Ryan wouldn't be making their way into the range if it wasn't for threads and people talking on here. Same with Large Scale Diesel. Diesel was originally set to come out a few years back and subsequently "cancelled" but Bachmann brought him back along with Paxton offering a new life line to a range some people wrote off as dead. My over all point is this thread is designed to be full of speculation and ideas of what could be in the future. Its part of the fourm and has been so for many many years now.
Mulfred100, I actually agree with you 100%. I avoided making a version of my post for a long time because speculation discussions have been a central point of the community for years and it's not my place to try and destroy that because that's not what I want. My posts were in response to a common point I see throughout multiple different threads (not just the speculation threads) and Falcon the 2nd happened to be the most recent person to make the point at the time (it's not personal to you Falcon, literally another user made the same argument in the N thread a day or two ago). 
From my perspective, people keep saying we cannot develop Edward for large and N scale at the same time. There are two main defenses that they provide for it: We need to keep the lines unique so that people can buy all the product and we donít want to take development resources from N scale.

My response was how are either points logical given that most collectors are either going to be operating in their respective scale alone (and people who collect both will probably get the same character in each) and also thatís not how a business approves or rejects funding for different lines. Beyond that, why are we penalizing large scale collectors? Why is it popular to advocate that large scale collectors should receive only the secondary characters when N scale deserves the primary ones? Why is it a ďborderline biased responseĒ for pointing out the disparity that some HO collectors (read: neither of you), who already have every primary and most secondary characters from the model series, get upset when someone comes in suggesting a CGI only character or even a BWBA character because they donít even have Stepney or BoCo yet, labelling them a troll when they could just be someone who wants everything and probably took to BWBA in a way older fans did not, but when I come in and say Iíd like to advocate for something above the lowest common denominator because of the financial reality for a user I am somehow not advocating for collectors and providing some perspective, but I'm silencing people instead?

I agree with Mulfred on this post. There's nothing wrong at all with speculating about a toy line that you may or may not own, and there's also nothing wrong with having different input than someone else, as long as you remain respectful to others about it and keep your response both civil and fair in length. I will admit that the two responses I got from that particular user were a lot heavier than I anticipated and it felt like they took things personally, which was not my intention from the initial post. The most that I wanted to do was try starting conversation with forum users after a fair period of activity, but that seemed to be spoiled with the borderline biased response that I got. Until the next time someone posts about a particular idea, I think it is best to keep in mind that most input shared by users is usually just their opinion and not everything they say is hard fact, so it's best to not treat every bit of their input as such.
 

All I was trying to do was to point out were the flaws in the logic were. Modelling HO/OO is not the same as modelling Large and I was trying to provide the context around how decision making as a collector varies based upon those considerations. I actually very much appreciated that you wanted to talk about large scale with your post, it just came across as having misconceptions about the challenges of large scale modelling, a perspective thatís to be expected on a forum that mostly sees HO/OO9 collectors discussing their hobby. I apologize that your post was the catalyst of me unleashing a backlog of criticism as it was not personal to you, honestly. I value that you are a frequent contributor and often enjoy your posts including in the large scale thread of which you are a regular contributor. That specific post just happened to include that same line about Edward N vs Large that comes across as lacking understanding from my perspective and that was the straw that broke the camelís back from ignoring that dominant narrative to saying something about it.

That said, it may be that Large scale only has the budget line for Bill and Ben. So be it, if thatís the state of the projected sales and I cannot change that as a lone collector. But you will not see me advocating for them until it is definitively proven that we cannot get Edward made.

And so to you Falcon, Milfred, and others, who I know share this opinion, I return to these quotes in particular, because I agree with them so readily:

I'm a firm believer especially over the last few years with recent announcements like HO Daisy and Ryan that Bachmsnn actually value our opinions and listen to us fans especially on forums like this.

I also get a good feeling that the forums have been very helpful for Bachmann with determining at least some of their future products in recent years. Like Mulfred said, HO Scale Daisy and Ryan probably would not have been announced if it weren't for the fans sharing their input on forums. The same goes for other products like N Scale James and Toby, and even the Large Scale Red Coaches. There's only so much that fans can say on social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter, so the forums serve as a great way to talk about product ideas more openly and (by extension) directly to Bachmann's Thomas team. Feedback and input from fans matters a lot, and it's a value that has been lost rapidly among toy companies over the last several years. Even if not every announcement Bachmann makes is ideal to the fans, it's helpful to have the forums so the team behind their Thomas products can get a good sense on what the fans want.

This is the point that makes my posts have an edge I worked hard to edit out and reframe. I wrote and rewrote my posts four or five times each to try and strike the balance, but itís a razors edge so please understand that this is in good faith.
Iím here on this forum for the same reason as many of you: because Bachmann reads these posts (I see them posting all the time in the Large scale forum). I was lurker until Bachmann discontinued the DCC large scale engines and wanted to voice my concerns about it as a large scale modeler.

I do NOT want you all to stop making suggestions, looking into the practicalities, and imagining about the future of Large scale. I donít want that at all. What I want is for there to be more understanding of how large scale modeling differs from N, OO9, and HO/OO so that people can make more informed speculation and advocacy. It seems like you all only concern yourself with two points in your speculations which are manufacturing costs and character breadth. Iím asking you to consider at least one other which is the challenges and practicalities of the modelers themselves.
Itís difficult to watch you all say that Large scale canít have what collectors want because you think N scale should have it. Itís an insult, I assume unintended, but heard loud and clear: ďDonít mess up the N scale line because you want something that most people want: the main characters from the model series.Ē My saying that both can practically have it so both should have it is not controversial so I must assume itís my tone thatís really ruffled feathers.

On that front, my sharpest toned response in the two posts I made (internally in my head) was the one to Chaz (a poster whom I value very highly in this community). They unfortunately made the exact argument I was butting heads with: Be satisfied with what you get because N scale deserves it more. At least itís not Nia*. The paraphrasing is my own, but the patronizing tone is there (again, not intentionally). It diminishes our desires and it partly comes from a place where you have most of the big wins and get to push for the smaller things in your own collection now. Nobody can come in and advocate for new characters you donít want in your own collection because youíre in the weeds and most people can come to agreement. I stand by my final point, but would like to refine it even further. Imagine you could only have 12 engines in HO or N, what would you pick? Which ones would you cut from your own collection or planned collection? Itís just a thought experiment that gets you to think more like someone who collects large scale where the limits come much quicker.

Iím thankful that you both responded, my goal is not to end the conversation or end speculation on any scale for any person. It was to throw up a red flag and say that thereís a lot of context missing from this discussion and people are talking  about a near-consensus that Bill and Ben or Mavis should be next. So I asked, ďWhose consensus?Ē In the immediate term I do believe that a little more weight should be given, by Bachmann, to people who actually buy the product because if the newly released product fails, the line gets discontinued and we all lose, including you future hopefuls. That's not to say your opinions are not valuable and do not matter, because they are and do. All of my points are about figuring out sustainable longevity for the line without putting the cheapest things first just for locomotive product.

And I want to make a final note here that is personal. My 1 year old son has three favorite engines right now: Gordon, Bill, and Ben. So in a weird way, I am advocating against myself as one of the big reasons I model Thomas in large is to spend time with him sharing a universe I grew up loving. I would buy Bill and Ben more readily than Diesel and Paxton (especially if they were set up for easy DCC transition Ė still beating that horse Bachmann!), but Iím also more likely to hold off for now and put that money into different parts of the hobby or even other parts of my life because Iím not made of unlimited money and I have to consider the whole value of my collection. I donít want nothing but tank engines for any railway I am modelling. The Thomas line WILL be an exception to that, but itís still competing. Iím probably going to get one of the new LGB locomotives this year because itís exactly what I want long term and Diesel is missing a big component for me so Iím not choosing it even though it makes more sense for my life right now. I know many people ARE interested here and elsewhere (including my father for his grandchildren focused-era of modelling) and that gives me hope for the future. I just really wish Bachmann focused on the ďmust-havesĒ and priced them accordingly. Gordon could be much more expensive than Emily and collectors would figure it out just like they do for the other showpieces of a given line thatís not Thomas because it becomes the end goal. You can have a few tank engines, then a handful of mid-sized locos, and a showpiece or two to really show off your layout. Gordon should be that, the ďBig-BoyĒ, Flying Scotsman, or Brockenlok of the Thomas line. But we need an Edward (or two) before the lineís ready for that.

*I recommend that you go back to that second post I made to get Chazís context but I guess I cannot stress enough that the business model that everyone (including Chaz there) seems to be using to make their predictions are not how you manage sales projections and decision making. That logic does not stand and I cannot seem to make that clear: Each product line has to make its own money to continue. No business (unless itís a charity, which Bachmann is not) makes products that they do not project to recoup the dollars spent to make it. N, OO9, HO, and Large have their own budgets with projections and they do not mix. The only limitation is the capital required to make products, new and reused, based upon available dollars. Under this precept alone is the potential for not having enough money to make both tooling at once, but the counter is this: If there is money budgeted for tooling in both scales, the tooling for another brand new tank engine in large is not dramatically less expensive upfront than the tooling for Edward sans tender (already available). The question is only how much money can we make using any given tooling? My argument is that Edward will have enough sell thru to cover the cost of his tooling and will sell more as an individual engine than either Bill or Ben. But Bill and Ben together may sell more but may disqualify purchasers from being able to afford Edward should he come after.
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Cheeky_ULP


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« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2021, 06:01:15 PM »

I think Bachmann should make BoCo
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Mulfred100

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« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2021, 04:09:49 AM »

Jbray you are still missing the point of the thread and what purpose it serves. This is a future predictions/suggestions thread. Chaz is one of the most thought out person on this fourm and has been for many many years now. Alot long then most of us. Seriously go and read some older threads to see how indepth he looks into suggestions and making cases for things (using both new and old tooling). Theres always been that on here, especially in regards to reusing tooling that Is ready available either in the Thomas line or elsewhere in the Bachmann line. Look at all the class 08 discussions we have every year regarding Sidney, splatter and dodge in HO and now in large scale as that tooling is now available. As for getting upset by people suggesting characters outside of the "model ear or labeling them as a "troll" is a bit ridiculous. Especially since you don't know us. I'm happy for any characters to be made from any era. In fact I'll admit I'm more likely to buy a HO Rebecca over someone like Diesel 10 or Lady.

On here we make cases for engines being made based on serveal different factors and at the end of the day we are entitled to make those cases! Are they always sound or watertight cases? Not always no. But we are the people going out buying these products. People on here are alot more balanced then you think and most of us don't have unrealistic expectations and don't flood the threads with long lists like I.e.
Large scale

Edward
Gordon
Henry
Bill
Ben
Mavis
Arry
Bert
Stephen
Boco
Sidney
Bertie

Ect

I personally look at what can be done with both sets of existing and new tooling, what's happening with the show itself and the moment. Like for example newer characters or returning characters like Ryan and Daisy. I also follow the logic of previously released ranges I.e applying the similar release strategies of large scale and HO to N scale and discussion possibilities and potential similarities that could mirror in N Scale. As well as listening to what others want and what other would buy. I'm not the smartest guy out there or most business minded person but alot of us aren't. We are younger adults/teens as well as some older fans. None of us are going to have a full excel spread sheet available to show how much it would cost bachmann, how much profit can be made. How many people would buy it ect. But what we do have is passion and a love for the show.

And again I will also point out the fact that again seems to have been missed. The sway factor. You mentioned about launching new products that could not sell well and ultimately end the line well that case can also be revirced. Theres always that announcement of a new engine that hooks someone new into that scale, which prompts that person to go and buy other items from that scale. Example say Edward was released in N scale, a non N Scale modeller might say, I'll buy Edawrd, he's my favourite engine, then they buy some trucks for him to pull, then they buy another engine so Edward isn't by himself and it snowballs from there. Same with HO, Large and 009. When Sir Handel or Duncan is announced there will be people jumping into that particular range for the first time. As I have seen from Peter Sam's announcement and model photos shown on social media. Alot of people who do not model in 009 now want to because Peter Sam is available to them and looks incredible

Lastly I will point out one thing I have total faith in is Bachmann. They put out quality products and unlike other ranges they don't overstaturate the market with too many products that are too reparative. They keep us happy year after year with their new announced products.
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Len

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« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2021, 06:48:07 AM »

I wish Bachmann would make an HO/OO and N/Narrow Gauge track cleaning car with 'Thomas' style couplers. I'm not so concerned with what the car actually is, just that it can couple to 'Thomas' locomotives and help clean the track in tunnels and scenary encroached areas.

Len
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If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
Cheeky_ULP


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« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2021, 09:33:19 AM »

I wish Bachmann would make an HO/OO and N/Narrow Gauge track cleaning car with 'Thomas' style couplers. I'm not so concerned with what the car actually is, just that it can couple to 'Thomas' locomotives and help clean the track in tunnels and scenary encroached areas.

Len
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/bachmann-ho-74901-british-brake-van-track-cleaning-car-signal-and-telegraph-kdb955094/

Good news for you.
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Len

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« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2021, 11:16:10 AM »

Thanks for the 'heads up' Cheeky. Just put myself on the notification list for when it becomes available.

Len
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If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
TrainFan97


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« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2021, 04:01:56 PM »

Even if BoCo was to somehow appear in All Engines Go, it would be purely for fanservice, like Bulstrode. There's also a good chance he won't even have his proper "Co-Bo" configuration. Bulstrode is currently the only returning character in the reboot not to make a CGI appearance, but that could change. If Bachmann does make HO Scale BoCo at some point, he'll have to be based on his model series appearance. The reboot is a completely separate show with an entirely different continuity.

We wouldn't have gotten Daisy or Ryan announced if it wasn't for our input. Like I said before, it made perfect sense to announce Ryan after Daisy considering they both share a line.

Regarding N Scale, Edward should definitely be the 5th engine, so as to make the N Scale offerings more unique from Large Scale. Bachmann can scale down his HO Scale tooling to N Scale, and give him a CGI face.
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My wishlist for HO Scale: Stepney, BoCo, Sidney, Norman, Porter, and Timothy.
My wishlist for N Scale: Gordon, Henry, Edward, and Diesel.
Cheeky_ULP


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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2021, 12:00:12 AM »

I can promise you right now absolutely nothing in AEG will be there for "fan-service" purposes.
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